Talk:Thondaimandala Vellalar

Introduction

@Sitush: What is the need of Kaikkolar in Vellalr page? Tirukodimadachengunrur (talk) 11:34, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

It is mentioned in the source as a lower ranking group, not a low ranking one. - Sitush (talk) 11:48, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

@Sitush:Kaikkolars are not a low ranking cast. They ranked next to Vellalar.

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=ALUvDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA181&dq=kaikkolars+high+ranking&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjhhOu2yr3qAhXuzjgGHbARBG4Q6AEILjAB#v=onepage&q=kaikkolars%20high%20ranking&f=false Tirukodimadachengunrur (talk) 11:48, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

You need to re-read what is said in the article. It does not say they are low ranking. - Sitush (talk) 11:49, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

@Sitush:https://books.google.co.in/books?id=ALUvDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA181&dq=kaikkolars+high+ranking&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjhhOu2yr3qAhXuzjgGHbARBG4Q6AEILjAB#v=onepage&q=kaikkolars%20high%20ranking&f=false

👆According to this source Kaikkolars groups are ranked next to Vellalar(high ranking group).

Then why you mentioned Kaikkolar as low ranking group?

In many source Kaikolars/Sengunthar are master weaver and prominent warriors. https://books.google.co.in/books?id=J3nHg-eKWuIC&pg=PA278&dq=kaikkolar+mudali&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwif68fMzL3qAhUeyDgGHbqkDxYQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=kaikkolar%20mudali&f=false

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=OEZuAAAAMAAJ&dq=kaikkolar+soldier&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=kaikkolar+prominent+soldier

So kaikkolar are not a low ranking group Tirukodimadachengunrur (talk) 11:59, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

@Sitush: in some region Sengunthar/Kaikolar also a sub caste of Vellalar

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=uKXScvnTNQkC&pg=PA135&dq=senguntha+vellalar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiy7siwzr3qAhUwIbcAHXInCv8Q6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=senguntha%20vellalar&f=false

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=F9xECgAAQBAJ&pg=PA63&dq=senguntha+vellalar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiy7siwzr3qAhUwIbcAHXInCv8Q6AEILzAB#v=onepage&q=senguntha%20vellalar&f=false

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=KQAJAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA113&dq=senguntha+vellalar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiy7siwzr3qAhUwIbcAHXInCv8Q6AEINjAC#v=onepage&q=sengunta%20vellala&f=false

Tirukodimadachengunrur (talk) 12:07, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

I say it again, with a quote from the article this time: several lower-ranking castes - my emphasis. Lower is not the same as low. According to the source [the title] Mudaliar (used for the high-ranking subcaste of Tondaimandalam Vellalars, but also for the rather low caste of weavers or Kaikkilars), or Panikkar (Pallars and Parayars). It seems that Kaikkilar = Kaikkolar, given the spelling method used throughout that source. You will be aware that different sources spell caste names slightly differently. - Sitush (talk) 12:08, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

That said, the article is slightly wrong - Gough is referring to the Panikkar title when she mentions Pulayar etc, so those last two castes need to be removed from the article. - Sitush (talk) 12:09, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

@Siush: Kaikkolar is a backward community.

Pulaiyar and Pallars are scheduled caste

So need to differentiate that "Kaikkolar a Backward community using Mudaliyar title" Tirukodimadachengunrur (talk) 12:26, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=c4n7CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA52&dq=sengunthar+murugan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiIm9ev1b3qAhVlwzgGHTmzDUAQ6AEIXDAH#v=onepage&q=Sengunthar%20&f=false Tirukodimadachengunrur (talk) 12:37, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

I fixed my mistake about the Pulayar etc. Does that now resolve your concern? I misread the punctuation in the source but it still says that the Kaikkilar are "lower" than the TVs, as does our article. - Sitush (talk) 14:53, 8 July 2020 (UTC)