Talk:Thelymitra glaucophylla

Etymology of glaucophylla

Sharr lists the etymology of "glaucophyllus" as follows:

• glaucophyllus: L glaucus bluish-grey or -green + G -phyllus -leaved (page 207)

On page 45 he lists "L" as an abbreviation for "Latin, whether ancient (up to about the fall of the Roman Empire) or modern"; and "G" as an abbreviation for "Greek, usually ancient Greek".

Sharr's book is available here.

A further reference to "glaucus being Latin for "bluish-grey or -green" is given by Stearn as follows:

• glaucous: glaucus (adj. A). glaucous-: in L. comp. usu. glauci-, in Gk. comp. glauco-; glaucifolius, glaucophyllus, glaucous-leaved;

A further reference to -phyllus being Greek for "-leaved" is given by Short as follows:

• leaf folium, phyllum (both noun n.2); leaf-like foliaceus (adj. A); relating to a leaf foliaris (adj. B); -leaved (in Lat. comp.) -foliatus, -folius (both adj. A), (in Gk comp.) -phyllus (adj. A);

Short's book is available here Gderrin (talk) 21:51, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Based on your quote of Sharr, one could think that Sharr would refer to the real Greek, when using the label "G". Similarly, one would expect that Stearn would also refer to real Greek when using the label "Gk.". As I do not have the book of Sharr, I can not check whether there are other clues whether real Greek is intended or probably a latinized form of Greek, but in Stearn (1983, sixth impression 1989) we can read on p. 472:

• -oecium (s.n. II): in Gk. comp., -house, -room, e.g. συνοικιον latinized as synoecium (s.n. II) 'a room where several people dwell together', whence the 'homologized expressions' androecium and gynoecium (not gynaeceum) for the male and female systems of the flower:

Here we can see clearly that -oecium is not the same as the real Greek form -οικιον, as that has to be transliterated according to Ancient Greek module as oikion and not as -oecium. One, could expect similarly, that -phyllus in Stearn is not real Greek, but a latinized form. That is corroborated by various sources that indicate the -phyllos is the real Greek form, and -phyllus merely New Latin.

Collins English dictionary

• Word origin of '-phyllous'
  from Greek -phullos of a leaf

The American Heritage Dictionary

• -phyllous suff. Having a specified kind or number of leaves: gamophyllous. [From New Latin -phullos, from Greek -phullos, from phullon, leaf.

Merriam Websters

• New Latin -phyllus, from Greek -phyllos, from phyllon leaf

Stearn should have be more explicit, that he is providing latinized forms, instead of real Greek forms. Although, one should/could know, that forms on -us are Latin, as the equivalent Greek forms are on -os. Maybe there are similar tell signs in Sharr, that he is actually providing latinized forms, instead of real Greek forms (despite the label "G"). Wimpus (talk) 08:24, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Am I to assume that by "Stearn should have be [sic] more explicit, that he is providing latinized forms, instead of real Greek forms" that you, Wimpus, are a higher authority than William T. Stearn?

Kindly revert your last edit to the article about Thelymitra glaucophylla, including the statement "Glauco, written as Glaukō (Γλαυκώ), is actually a name for the moon in Ancient Greek". (That is, unless your motive is to insult a botanist who is in no position to respond.) Feel free to add a sentence with a reference to Stearn's etymology of glaucophyllus. Gderrin (talk) 09:01, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

No, I am not. You are not responding to the linguistic issues addressed here. You have to get informed first, before you can make any etymological edit.Wimpus (talk) 13:00, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Gentle reminder - this is an article about an orchid, not an article about etymology. I suggest you need to get informed about botany and botanical Latin more than I do about Greek. You have not addressed this issue that Stearn has "glaucous-: in L. comp. usu. glauci-, in Gk. comp. glauco-; glaucifolius, glaucophyllus". Gderrin (talk) 21:41, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

It was a suggestion of an administrator for you to get informed, during your failed attempted to prove that my edits were not kosher.

Stearn seems to be contradicting Sharr, as Stearn seems to suggest that the first part is Greek ("in Gk. comp. glauco-") and not Latin (as Sharr is doing: "L glaucus"). But given this specific phrasing of Stearn, we do not know for sure whether he refers to Greek-derived or real Greek. Use of -c- (as in glauco-) for kappa in γλαυκός seems to be inconsistent with Wikipedia's procedure of transliterating Greek. I would consider that as a Latinization. Those problems are not present in the current source. Wimpus (talk) 21:52, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

And wouldn't the use of Latin glaucus instead of Greek γλαυκός dictate glauci- instead of glauco- according to rule 60.10b of the Code?

References