Talk:The Shining (novel)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Is the last para. serious

Is the last para. serious ? Ericd 23:15, 7 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I rewrote it, will put the disputed para. here until sources are found:

King reported that he was unhappy with the filming of his work, in large part because Jack Nicholson had just finished One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and he suspected that audiences would assume him crazy to begin with. He wrote another screenplay of the novel and had it refilmed in the late 90s. Kubrick´s version only used the concept of the King´s novel to experiment with the genre and many allegorical possibilities of the plot. One of his main aims was to describe in metaphor the background of genocide, but also some social consequences of mechanisation.

The part about Cuckoo's Nest is especially dubious. The release dates were 5 years apart. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 16:33, April 24, 2004 (talk • contribs) 209.149.235.254 (UTC)

When I first saw Kubrick's Shining I also had to impression that Nicholson looked more like a crazy man returning to type than flawed individual descending into madness (or possession), and I hadn't read anything about it or seen Cuckoo's Nest in getting that impression. However, I'm unhappy with King's remake—He seems to have gone out of his way to (sometimes badly) rewrite his own novel to make it is unlike Kubrick's Shining as possible. Cecropia 16:50, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Have heard that one of the conditions for King to re-acquire the adaptation rights was that he would not publicly criticize the Kubrick film (any more)...anyone got a source on that? 209.149.235.254 18:16, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I'm fairly sure that this novel is of the modern Gothic horror genre. Ohnodoctor —Preceding undated comment added 22:51, March 6, 2006

Why is Tony named Tony? In the book the doctor and the parents seem to know, but they didn't say why. 71.57.58.64 17:10, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Although I don't necessarily recall a direct reference to the origin of Tony's name, Danny's middle name is Anthony (confirmed through "The Stephen King Encyclopedia" Spignesi, Stephen Contemporary Books 1991 p 171). I always assumed "Tony" was an alter-ego for Danny. LACameraman 22:41, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I finished the book and the scene with Tony near the end fits with that. Thanks.71.57.58.64 17:14, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Split

I propose the page be split perhaps so one can deal with the book and films seperately. Any objections? Dysprosia 03:49, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Seems like a good idea to me; certainly the Kubrick film deserves an in-depth article on its own. Whether the Garris thing needs a separate article, or should be mentioned in a Kubrick film article, or should be mentioned in the article on the book, I don't know. Jgm 12:16, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Agree that would be a good idea, since there are enough differences in concept, emphasis and plot and the movie is famous in its own right. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 14:32, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I disagree with the split. It's almost impossible to discuss the book or either film without comparing them to one another, and although the plots of the Kubrick version and the Kin versions differ, the plots aren't so divergent that they can't both be broadly described together. Better to note the differences between the versions in one article than in two articles, or three. -Sean Curtin 04:32, Nov 20, 2004 (UTC)

It's possible to compare the two in both articles, though.

However, as Cecropia has mentioned, there are enough differences between the two for the movie to deserve it's own article. There are certain elements of the movie that deserve mention which have nothing to do with the book (eg the Indian-massacre-theme that was described in the Family of Man article at the bottom of the film article) that I think is not featured as strongly in the book. Dysprosia 05:21, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Miniseries

Is the series described on the book page the same as listed on the disam page? I'm not sure, so I'd like to get confirmation before I move it. Dysprosia 03:44, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yes. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 04:29, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

"Move it" where? If you're suggesting a merge, effort is being made to separate King writing from the film adaptations, so please do not merge the articles. Chris Stangl 19:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Ending detail copyvio

I removed the spoiler ending of the novel. Copyright law specifies that it is a violation to publich material which might diminish an author's rights to the profit of his or her work. U.S. example, which is mirrored internationally, is in 17 U.S.C. 107, that in making a claim of "fair use" "the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work" must be considered. Revealing an ending "secret" falls within that category insofar as someone who might otherwise purchase a work might be dissauded from doing so once the ending is revealed. -- Cecropia 04:54, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Extraordinary information, Cecropia. Something I'd like to look further into. Perhaps you'd consider (or perhaps you already have) authoring a Wiki article on this US copyright caveat? I'd certainly like to know more. All the best, LACameraman 06:11, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I've restored what Cecropia removed. 24.14.72.182 17:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

This might be of interest to some of you. Found 17 U.S.C. 107. I believe the relevant lines are as follows:

In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case

is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include - (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; (2) the nature of the copyrighted work; (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or

value of the copyrighted work.

I've bolded the part Cecropia was talking about. Perhaps revealing the end of the novel discourages some from purchasing it? Cougar Draven 16:08, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

This is all ridicilous. It'd be one thing if we posted the ending word for word. Its another entirely to post plot information in an encyclopedia. If this was illegal, than half of all the fictional articles on wikipedia would have to be cut down severely.--CyberGhostface 00:51, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Trivia

Black Sabbath wrote and recorded a song called "The Shining." Sung by Tony Martin, it appears as the first selection on its 1987 studio album release The Eternal Idol, and appears to be about the King story. Might want to add that to the Trivia section.TurtleofXanth 22:03, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone know if the text "Before the Play" is available anywhere? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.71.128 (talk) 18:33, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't know where it is exactly, but it is available. Try a google search.--CyberGhostface (talk) 01:25, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Something missing

In the ending, it just mentions that Jack is reminded that the hotel is about to blow up. There's nothing about Danny reaching through the Hotel's power to Jack (albeit temporarily) and Jack telling him that he loves him. I haven't read the book in quite a while, but if someone else can do it, that'd be great.--CyberGhostface 00:54, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

King's stay at the Stanley Motel

Didn't part of the inspiration of this book come from the fact that the Stanley Hotel was haunted. I saw this on the Ghost Hunters episode. They were saying King had experienced something at the hotel and it became part of the basis for the book. Is this true, if it is, I think it would be good for someone to add it to the article. Milonica (talk) 08:37, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

"Room 237"

According to the page about the movie, it was 217 in the book, and changed to 237 in the movie. 76.24.21.248 (talk) 03:53, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes that's true. What're you getting at? ArdClose (talk) 23:03, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

"Jack/Hotel" phrasing

Reading through the article I think we should clean up the "Jack/Hotel" naming. I think as long as it's clear that the Hotel was attempting to possess Jack then we can stick with simply calling him Jack. I'm going to go through and do this. Stile4aly (talk) 20:53, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Original title

I deleted a claim that King had wanted to title the book "The Shiner" but changed it when he learned that shiner was slang for a black eye. I beleive King wanted to title it "The Shine" but changed when he learned that was a term sometimes used as a racial slur. I think that is in "Danse Macabre" but I don't have a copy handy to cite, so I didn't add it. BoosterBronze (talk) 16:33, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Once and for all please. It is a roque mallet

The roque mallet is a bit different from a croquet mallet. It has a shorter handle and one end surfaced with rubber, the other with wood, plastic, or aluminum.
Once and for all please, the mallet wielded by Jack Torrance in the novel is roque, not croquet. I know this only gets (incorrectly) changed maybe once a year, but it's happened more than once, so I'm noting it on the talk page. Regards,--WickerGuy (talk) 15:32, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Steinbeck

• I have no citation making a connection between the two, but in reading John Steinbeck's Travels with Charley: In Search of America (1962) I noted with interest that the author refers to having, in his younger days, twice spent 8-month winters alone as caretaker of a resort hotel, snowed-in, in the Sierras. He recalls that in those long periods without human contact, that his range of sensation basically devolved into a pleasure/pain response, devoid of the colors and shadings of emotion channeled through social interaction. To me, it sounds like the nugget of this story, but, again, I have no source claiming a connection. Probably just an interesting coincidence. --Dystopos (talk) 05:15, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

• Actually, he was caretaker of a (private residential) summer estate, but yes, your description is quite accurate. Somewhere between p. 100 and 110 of the Penguin edition I believe.--WickerGuy (talk) 15:32, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Jack possesed by the hotel

In the book, Jack, under the power of the hotel, destroys his face with the mallet. Does that mean he is now dead after he smashed his skull in and is therefore, after that point, walking around as an animated corpse? Not a possessed person? The "mangled jack" responds to the hotel's need for self preservation when Danny tell "it" the boiler in the basement is about to explode.

I just don't understand the specifics in the plot which said Jack bashed in his skull so his son would not recognise him. Call me a pedant but that is either a huge plot hole on the part of Mr King, once there is no brain activity jack would have fallen down dead, unless he dies and the hotel takes over his corpse. 109.150.226.5 (talk) 13:43, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether or not you're requesting that the article be changed in some manner, but my memories of the novel are that it isn't clear on whether or not Jack the Human would be dead if he weren't possessed at this point. Of course, shortly after this occurs it becomes a moot point. Doniago (talk) 13:52, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Before the Play

An editor has been reinserting unsourced information that was challenged in part because of its lack of sourcing. Please keep in mind that WP:BURDEN stipulates that material that was removed due to sourcing concerns should not be reinserted without any referencing. BURDEN trumps WP:PRESERVE. I would also remind editors of WP:BRD - the matter should now be discussed here before additional changes are made. Thank you. DonIago (talk) 20:08, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. You are correct that I removed because of inadequate sourcing. Jmj713 (talk · contribs) restored, indicating a source in an edit summary. That source also does not confirm the material he restored. 107.15.192.226 (talk) 23:10, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

What exactly wasn't confirmed? 11:43, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Daniel Torrance article

The article Daniel Torrance, a character in this work, was nominated for deletion. The discussion can be seen here. Editors watching this page are invited to comment. Thanks, Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 19:42, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

WTF?

Why does a snow-field hotel in the Rockies have a winter caretaker? Where have the customers gone? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:44B8:31E3:8800:9CF:FE7C:B6E8:E694 (talk) 11:55, 17 August 2016 (UTC)