Talk:The Allman Brothers Band (album)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 08:11, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

I love this album, so I'm happy to review this. I read the article about a year ago, but I notice it's been greatly improved since then, so well done for just doing that.

Lead

• The lead is very short. For an article of this size, the lead probably wants to be at least two paragraphs, and include a summary of each of the five sections.
• " Produced by Adrian Barber, the album was released on November 4, 1969, in the United States" would read better as "It was released in the United States on November 4, 1969 and produced by Adrian Barber".

Background

• Might it be worth just mentioning a bit about how and when the band were formed, and that they had not been together long when the material was written?

Background and production

• There needs to be something explaining how the band got their recording contract with Capricorn / Atlantic. Reading the narrative, we go from a new band rehearsing to walking into a commercial studio. In 1969 that just didn't happen without a major industry figure getting involved.
• "The band set off for New York City in August 1969," - where did they set off from? Macon?
• " Atlantic Records house engineer Adrian Barber stepped in to record the sessions in his first producer credit." - suggest "... recorded the sessions instead, and was credited as producer".
• "recalled Dowd" would read better going at the start of the sentence
• "Staying at the "closest Holiday Inn to 1841 Broadway," - I don't understand how this is relevant to the article
• "Ray Charles had recorded on the studio's house Hammond organ" - this might be worth rewording, presumably other Atlantic artists and session players used the house Hammond too?
• "Whippin' Post" should be linked (the article is about the song, Pillory is about the device)
• "it took the entirety of that day’s session to complete the recording [of Whippin' Post])" - I'm a little confused by this. We've already been told the songs were tightly rehearsed and the band "had them down cold", so why didn't the band nail the song in a few takes?
• "Johnson, Betts and Oakley were unfamiliar with studio recording", but the box quoting Butch Trucks says "I felt comfortable in the studio, having recorded a bunch before, as did we all". Which is right?
• "and sat in a corner beside his amp and baffle" - what does "baffle" mean in this context? Also, does this mean the solo was overdubbed on the existing track, or cut live with everyone playing in the dark?
• "Allman played slide" - link slide guitar in full
• "During their tenure in New York, the group made their debut over three nights" - do we know when exactly? Was this in between album sessions, immediately after them, or something else?
• "Duane continued to travel to Muscle Shoals often to work as a session musician" - how is this specifically relevant to this album (as opposed to the band's career generally)?

Composition

• File:DreamsAllmanBros.ogg is tagged as requiring attention - needs a shorter version
• "The arrangements on The Allman Brothers Band were largely crafted upon Gregg Allman's arrival" - suggest "The songs on the album were largely arranged after Gregg Allman joined the band"
• "Berry and Betts' former act" - should be "Oakley and Betts' former act" - suggest "band" might be better than "act"
• "with Gregg Allman's organ receiving a solo section" - suggest "which includes an organ solo" (the reader can probably infer Gregg Allman played this)
• Is it worth putting in something about "Every Hungry Woman", the only song that's not documented in this section. And also, can you find out if the opening slide riff (played by Duane, I guess) was overdubbed, as I think it was.

Artwork

• "partying with girls and doing drugs with the group" - while I think you'd have to pretty naive to think the band didn't take drugs, I don't think we need to mention it here. Just "partying with the band" should do. The next sentence which starts "He and the group" can then be reduced to "They"

• The locations for the front and back covers is uncited.
• "The group brought bubbles to cover themselves up, but the bubbles were washed away by the stream" - what do you mean by "bubbles" - and second use of this word can just be "they"

Release and reception

• "The Allman Brothers Band saw release in November 1969" - suggested "... was released in November 1969"
• "Phil Walden had not even created a logo for Capricorn Records yet" - just "Walden" will do here (we've already found out who he is earlier in the article), also last "yet" is redundant
• I see a similar comment came in for the GA review of Bookends (album), but I'll add it here - do you think you could dig out a few more reviews?

Track listing

• The information on "It's Not My Cross to Bear" is uncited.

Sources

• The sources are all good. If you hadn't used Gregg Allman's memoirs, I'd have asked why not! As I don't actually have a copy of the album at the moment, I've ordered an early 2000s Rhino CD reissue, and they tend to have very good sleevenotes, which may be useful for additional information.

External links

• Instead of the main page of the band's official website, could we link to an "official" page of this album specifically?

Summary

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

The main issues I can see are relatively minor prose modifications, a handful of uncited claims and clarifying the fair use on the audio clip. I don't think it will take long to fix these, so I'll put the review on hold pending a pass when these are resolved. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:09, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Response from Thardin12

(copied from my talk page) Hey there, thanks for the review! I adore this album as well. I've implemented almost every suggestion you made. Some notes:

• Entire lead and “background” section revised.

That looks much better, well done. One minor complaint - the claim that they played 300 shows in 1970 is not mentioned again in the body, and needs to be added there, with a reference (doubtless one of your books will have it) Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:35, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

• I only include the Holiday Inn thing as I found it a rather humorous anecdote to the recording process, similar to how I include their performances at Ungano’s. I’ve left it as is, but if it’s necessary to remove it, let me know.

Ah, okay. The problem here is that the reader won't get the joke unless they understand the history of the band, their financial state at the time, that Holiday Inns were cheap dime a dozen places for touring bands (an approximate British equivalent would be Watford Gap services), and that hotels on Broadway are prohibitively expensive for the working class. I'd leave it out, to be honest. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:35, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

• The book I’ve cited claims it took the rest of the day to finish Whipping Post, but you’re right, another source says they “had them down cold.” I’ve noted this in the article.
• I hadn’t noticed that discrepancy between Trucks’ quote… but they’re both cited from books. It could be a simple mistaken recollection on Trucks’ part, or the other could be wrong. Nevertheless, I’ve noted the discrepancy in the article.
• I wasn’t quite sure what “baffle” referred to when I included it, but it was mentioned in the book, so I included it. I’m still not sure what he meant. Sound baffle? Also, the book implies that the solo was overdubbed, so Ive included that.

I think it is sound baffle - the problem is that article seems to have been written by one person with one point of view, and needs improving. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:35, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

• I note that the group made their New York debut over three nights, though the exact dates are unclear. They were likely on the off days from recording, so I can assume they were non-consecutive.
• File:DreamsAllmanBros.ogg has been updated.

Yes, that's good, and coming right at the peak of the slide solo is probably about the best choice Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:35, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

• I’ve included more on the creation of Every Hungry Woman.
• I’ve done lots of digging for reviews. Lots of music magazines at the time paid very little attention to the Allman Brothers, at least until At Fillmore East. Rolling Stone was the only real magazine to publish a review (Billboard, I believe, also published a blurb about it, but not quite a review). There are still few reviews of this album today, besides sites like Allmusic, which I’ve included. I would be very open to including more reviews if anyone can find them, but from my research, not many seem to exist.

Okay, if there isn't much out there, then I think we can leave things as they are. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:35, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

• While that info on “It's Not My Cross to Bear” is true, I can’t find a source for it, so it is gone.

A shame that, as I had no reason to believe the claim was false really. Don't forget there's nothing wrong with citing the album (provided to meet the GA criteria you include label and serial number). It is not, in my view, original research to verify a claim by listening to an LP. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:35, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

• I’ve linked to an official, separate page for the album.

Thanks again! Thardin12 (talk) 20:32, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Okay. I notice you've added File:Duane-Gregg Rose Hill.jpg. I think that will cause you problems. You've stated the photograph is from an album, but it's not, it's from a book. It's only tangentially related to the narrative, and I think it's likely somebody will question it and list it at Possibly unfree files. We got File:Duane Allmann.jpg as a free image from Flickr, so there's a chance we may get some more, rendering this image unusable. I'd take it out for the meantime.

I'll have another read through and see if there's anything else. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:35, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

I've had a look through, and it's just the three issues mentioned above. I've fixed them, so the article can now pass as I believe it meets all of the GA criteria. Thanks for improving it to this standard! Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:38, 13 May 2014 (UTC)