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Do NOT REDIRECT
editSwadhyaya is central to Jainism, which is unrelated to the Swadhyay Parivar.Bakaman Bakatalk 00:23, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Disambig
edit- In that case, I suggest a disambig page for both these. For example, Swadhyay (disambiguation) should link to both this and the Parivar page. This is because people associated with Jainism or familiar with both concepts/terms can tell the difference, but outsiders are needlessly confused ... a disambig page will help a lot. --Ragib 03:55, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
- Perhaps that is a good idea.Bakaman Bakatalk 04:16, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
23/09/2006, 2.51pm.
Dear Ragib,
Frankly speaking, I have not understood your following comments on discussion page of "Swadhyay"
"In that case, I suggest a disambig page for both these. For example, Swadhyay (disambiguation) should link to both this and the Parivar page. This is because people associated with Jainism or familiar with both concepts/terms can tell the difference, but outsiders are needlessly confused ... a disambig page will help a lot. --Ragib 03:55, 23 September 2006 (UTC)"
It appears to me that the connotation of "Swadhyay" is of supreme importance over the connotation of "Swadhyay Parivar". Swadhyay Parivar refers to a group of people who practice Swadhyay. Swadhyay is advocated in Hindu (Vedic) Scriptures, more famous amonst them is "Srimad Bhagwad Geeta" that a person should practice Swadhyay daily.
It's a matter of pain that the group of people - followers of Pandurang Shashtri is controlled by person with sinister designs and a dominating section of this group is involved in vengeful violence against old dedicated followers who objected to one family control over huge charitable funds amounting to Indian Rupees Two Hundred Crores (2000 millions). Bones of few old followers were broken, house of a follower was put on fire, women of old followers were threatened to be raped, false criminal cases were filed in rural India to drag these old followers in rural India and get them killed in mob violence. The High Court has observed abuse of judiciary and has quashed all 22 such cases in an appeal by one Pankaj Trivedi along with others. Pankaj Trivedi, one time staunch follower of Pandurang Shashtri was killed on 15/06/2006 at Ahmedabad, India by members of this group. They are arrested and have confessed killing Pankaj Trivedi for protection of Vedic Culture!!!
"Swadhyay Parivar" is in habit of glorifying their activities and projecting tall claims. These claims in turn are used to increase their followers and consequential donations also to cover up their criminal activities carried out under guise of a religious organisation. I was associated with Pandurang Shashtri for more than 20 years and have moved in Indian Villages for spread of Swadhyay. I strongly object to link "Swadhyay" with "Swadhyay Parivar" for their current criminal activities.
The word Swadhyay is conjugation of two words "Swa" and "Adhyayan". "Swa" means self and "Adhyayan" means study. What Hindu scriptures advocate by daily practice of "Swadhyay" is one must think about one's existance in line with one's relation with one's creator. The practice of Swadhyay is advocated to sublimate human thinking about presence of Almighty and every other thing central to "Almighty".
If you want to narrow down the meaning of "Swadhyay" it would be to understand religion and streamline one's way of living consonant with religious dictates.
As a Hindu, I would say we have many Gods but the scriptures are not narrowed down to a particular "Idol God". It just refers to God or Almighty. The result of practice of Swadhyay could gradually turn an individual in a noble individual viz. an individual free of Selfish motives, Greed, Sinister thinking, Lust etc. and inculcating of kindness, sense of justice, sense of freedom to all etc. in an individual.
Swadhyayee 10:02, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
- Frankly speaking, I know nothing about either of the concepts, and do not care much about the parivar's notoriety or fame. That's exactly the point of having a disambig page ... we have two articles related to two topics, with a very close sounding name. That's causing ambiguity here (you see, most people are redirecting it to the other one, as this one is often empty or gets deleted). In such cases, Wikipedia's norm is to create a disambig page, that links to both topics. This is exactly what I mentioned above. I have not a single clue about either of the topics. Thank you. --Ragib 10:10, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Reply - swadhyaye, Ragib neither knows nor cares about swadhyay. He's just saying that the three Swadhyays (Swadhyaya- jainism, Swadhyaya parivar, and Hindu swadhyay) should be separate.Bakaman Bakatalk 20:40, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Bakasuprman and Ragib
The connotation of Swadhyay is study for spiritual quest. Any theosophical study could be called as Swadhyay. Swadhyay is a Sanskrut term. While a Jain study Jainism (scriptures) or a Hindu study Hindu scriptures or any third person may study scriptures of his faith. They all may be termed as Swadhyay. Swadhyay is a continuous process of theosophical study. Whereas Swadhyay Parivar is a group of people. There may be millions of such organisations in the world. Somebody has tried to project Swadhyay Parivar as Swadhyay here-in so as to put in other words, Swadhyay means only Swadhyay Parivar. For five decades, at the direct and indirect suggestions of Pandurang Shashtri and his adopted daughter Didi, the followers have developed mis-belief about their activities and consequential glorification of the activities of Pandurang Shashtri, the article has found place on Wikipedia. Swadhyay should not be seperated as Jain Swadhyay or Hindu Swadhyay. Swadhyay Parivar should in no case be merged or linked to Swadhyay.
To illustrate, the central idea of offering Namaj may be the same but there may be ritual differences in different Muslim sects, it would not warrant seperate pages upon "Namaj". Different rituals and beliefs can be incorporated in a sigle article.
In case of Swadhyay Parivar there goes conflict of allowing critical matters put on Swadhyay Parivar page. The Swadhyay Parivar wants that their activities be only glorified and their crimes be shunned. There should not be different pages for Swadhyay. If, one observe all vandalising is being done by anonymous viewers.
My views are without any bias.
Swadhyayee 09:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
- I respect your views. However, note that I am not saying that *this* article needs to be moved. Rather I am saying that a disambig page needs to be created to remove the confusion of total outsiders about the two articles Swadhyay and Swadhyay Parivar.
- Please see Disambiguation guidelines, which states:
- Disambiguation in Wikipedia and other Wikimedia Foundation projects is the process of resolving ambiguity. The conflict occurs when a single term can be associated with more than one topic. In many cases, this word or phrase is the same natural title of more than one article. In other words, disambiguations are paths leading to different topic pages that share essentially the same term in their title.
- Since the term "Swadhyay" is related to both articles, a proper way would be to create Swadhyay (disambiguation) and from there, link to both the above articles. I hope you understand the point now. --Ragib 09:24, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
- I've created the disambig page, and added {{otheruses}} in both these articles to link to that. I hope you now understand what I was referring to. Thanks. --Ragib 09:32, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
Honestly, I was not understanding technicality of the issue. All, I wanted that the viewers should get sacrosanct meaning of the word "Swadhyay" and clear idea about "Swadhyay" as well as "Swadhyay Parivar". Wikipedia should not be allowed to glorify any group of people by people with vested interest.
I appreciate, your painstaking efforts to improve the things.
Jainism
editJainism is nearly 3000 years old, older if you count the first avatar of Mahavir.Bakaman Bakatalk 20:40, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Study of one's self and Self-Study has different meanings.
editEvery time when I write the meaning of Swadhyay as study of one's own self, somebody corrects it as self-study. This time I could see, Mr.Basawala has done so.
There is difference in meaning of self-study and study of one's self. Self-study meaning could be vague that a person studying alone in any subject. Where as Study of one's own self is answers to questions like "Who am I?" "Who is my creator?" "What is my relationship with other objects of the world and space?", "Who is creator of the world, sun, moon etc?"
"Swadhyay" is a Sanskrut word. It's origin can be seen in Taiteriy Upnishad" and "Srimad Bhagwad Geeta". The word "Swadhyay" has a specific meaning. If you are a Mohmedian, let me give you an example. I may feel "Namaj" means bowing down to Almighty but The Word "Namaj" may have the different connotation, it may have very deep sense than I could perceive. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, the correct connotation of an important word should be allowed to the viewer. By your edits of meaning of "Swadhyay" as self-study, you are depriving the viewers of sacrosanct meaning of "Swadhyay".
I hope readers will understand my view-points and stop editing the meaning given here. I had written a rough article but somebody removed it. I am going to re-write after obtaining some information.
Swadhyayee 09:54, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
- I do not see how I changed anything major on this page, since this is my only edit here. Thank you. Mar de Sin Talk to me! 22:32, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
- Swadhyayee, please look at the page history before commenting. It may be other users.Bakaman Bakatalk 22:42, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Expand
editPlease expand the article. A simple definition of one or two sentences isn't enough to justify an article, so please expand this one. Thanks. --Ragib 03:56, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
I will certainly, pl. give me some time.
Swadhyayee 10:03, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
23/09/2006, 2.51pm.
Dear Ragib,
Frankly speaking, I have not understood your following comments on discussion page of "Swadhyay"
"In that case, I suggest a disambig page for both these. For example, Swadhyay (disambiguation) should link to both this and the Parivar page. This is because people associated with Jainism or familiar with both concepts/terms can tell the difference, but outsiders are needlessly confused ... a disambig page will help a lot. --Ragib 03:55, 23 September 2006 (UTC)"
It appears to me that the connotation of "Swadhyay" is of supreme importance over the connotation of "Swadhyay Parivar". Swadhyay Parivar refers to a group of people who practice Swadhyay. Swadhyay is advocated in Hindu (Vedic) Scriptures, more famous amonst them is "Srimad Bhagwad Geeta" that a person should practice Swadhyay daily.
It's a matter of pain that the group of people - followers of Pandurang Shashtri is controlled by person with sinister designs and a dominating section of this group is involved in vengeful violence against old dedicated followers who objected to one family control over huge charitable funds amounting to Indian Rupees Two Hundred Crores (2000 millions). Bones of few old followers were broken, house of a follower was put on fire, women of old followers were threatened to be raped, false criminal cases were filed in rural India to drag these old followers in rural India and get them killed in mob violence. The High Court has observed abuse of judiciary and has quashed all 22 such cases in an appeal by one Pankaj Trivedi along with others. Pankaj Trivedi, one time staunch follower of Pandurang Shashtri was killed on 15/06/2006 at Ahmedabad, India by members of this group. They are arrested and have confessed killing Pankaj Trivedi for protection of Vedic Culture!!!
"Swadhyay Parivar" is in habit of glorifying their activities and projecting tall claims. These claims in turn are used to increase their followers and consequential donations also to cover up their criminal activities carried out under guise of a religious organisation. I was associated with Pandurang Shashtri for more than 20 years and have moved in Indian Villages for spread of Swadhyay. I strongly object to link "Swadhyay" with "Swadhyay Parivar" for their current criminal activities.
The word Swadhyay is conjugation of two words "Swa" and "Adhyayan". "Swa" means self and "Adhyayan" means study. What Hindu scriptures advocate by daily practice of "Swadhyay" is one must think about one's existance in line with one's relation with one's creator. The practice of Swadhyay is advocated to sublimate human thinking about presence of Almighty and every other thing central to "Almighty".
If you want to narrow down the meaning of "Swadhyay" it would be to understand religion and streamline one's way of living consonant with religious dictates.
As a Hindu, I would say we have many Gods but the scriptures are not narrowed down to a particular "Idol God". It just refers to God or Almighty. The result of practice of Swadhyay could gradually turn an individual in a noble individual viz. an individual free of Selfish motives, Greed, Sinister thinking, Lust etc. and inculcating of kindness, sense of justice, sense of freedom to all etc. in an individual.
Swadhyayee 10:02, 23 September 2006 (UTC)