Talk:Survivor Series (1991)

THE Joe Louis Arena

I can't revert the edit by a bullheaded editor who doesn't know anything about grammar, so I am bringing it up here. It is grammatically wrong to just say "Joe Louis Arena" ("at Joe Jouis Arena" also sounds wonky compared to the CORRECT use "at the Joe Louis Arena"). The other editor has not given a single explanation for contiuing to change it. TJ Spyke 03:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Aren't you being just as bullheaded? I assume you're referring to the sentence "It took place on Thanksgiving Eve, 27 November 1991 at Joe Louis Arena in Detroit, Michigan." Can you please explain why you want to add "the" further? ~a (user • talk • contribs) 20:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

"At Joe Louis Arena" is correct. Just like "at Carnegie Hall" ("at *the* Carnegie Hall?"), "at Shea Stadium" or "at Disneyland". JohnInDC (talk) 22:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

No, it's not correct. I could point out other examples (besides this page) where not including "the" makes it sound idiotic: "at Astrodome", "at Izod Center". TJ Spyke 02:25, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Assuming that's true--that some use the definite article, and some don't--, it would make sense to see what is usually done for a particular stadium. For whatever reason, the old name of Rogers Centre was SkyDome. Not The SkyDome, but SkyDome. And everyone called it that. The Astrodome, as you correctly pointed out, was always THE Astrodome. In this case, as I pointed out in my very first edit, it's either "The Joe" or "Joe Louis Arena", but not "The Joe Louis Arena". Naming conventions are important and should be followed in cases of dispute. Stusutcliffe (talk) 02:33, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the support. I did a search for "Joe Louis Arena" on Wikipedia, and this was the only article I found that had any reference to "the Joe Louis Arena" [sic]. It's also the only article with an editor already having been warned by an admin resorting to name-calling because of someone else's "grammer". TJ, have a Coke and a smile next time you're at the Yankee Stadium. Stusutcliffe (talk) 02:14, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Coke tastes like crap, and the Yankees suck too. I will stick with Pepsi at the Blue Cross Arena. It's a matter of how it sounds. Generally with ".... Arena", you include "the". For something like ".... Hall" or "... Park", it sounds better not to include "the".

I am not too sure about that "generally" rule - Crisler Arena is another I'm familiar with and that's never prefaced with 'the' either. It's always "at Crisler Arena". Perhaps there is some subtle rule like, if the modifier is a company or sponsor then you supply the 'the' but if it's a person you don't; but in any case we don't have to establish the general rule to dispose of this specific example, which is that "Joe Louis Arena" is rarely, if ever, accompanied by the definite article. JohnInDC (talk) 04:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

"Gordie Howe will be at Joe Louis Arena to sign copies of his new book" [1] "Events at Joe Louis Arena" [2] . . . On the other hand, "Facts, figures and photos about the Joe Louis Arena" [3]. I see plenty of both. A majority of them seem to be without "the". ~a (user • talk • contribs) 05:50, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I would bet (and parenthetically so since really the issue here is exhausted at this point) that the foregoing references to Joe Louis Arena that include the 'the' tend to be ones in which the actual physical arena space is discussed. The more I think about it the more I believe there is actually an obscure, subconscious rule for this that we apply in speech. Interesting. JohnInDC (talk) 12:58, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

You MUST have something better to do with your time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Manutdfan11 (talk • contribs) 19:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I re-read this talk page, and the consensus is that "Joe Louis Arena" is the preferred terminology over "the Joe Louis Arena". As such, I edited the article. It was immediately reverted by TJ Spyke. I re-did my edit, and TJ Spyke then edited my talk page, impersonating a Wikipedia admin in saying a consensus had been reached with "the Joe Louis Arena". stusutcliffe 19:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Continued

Looks like a certain someone decided to start screwing up the page again by changing it the grammatically incorrect version by removing "the". No one is saying the arena is called "The Joe Louis Arena". All the current statement is basically saying is at the arena called "Joe Louis Arena". Not only does removing "the" make it sound just odd, but it's grammatically wrong. Rather than continuing to ruin the article, discuss your reasons here and see if there is a consensus to overrule the one made at other places. TJ Spyke 19:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

I can't even understand what you are saying. Your statement, if anything, illustrates my point. "No one is saying the arena is called 'The Joe Louis Arena'." There you go. for example, "___ happened at ___", where the first blank is an event and the second blank is a place. The place here is "Joe Louis Arena". Done. Oh, and stop impersonating a Wikipedia admin. You're not one. stusutcliffe 19:34, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

First, you obviously can't read. I said that writing "the Joe Louis Arena" (which is the grammatically correct version) is NOT saying that the arena is called "The Joe Louis Arena" (which you claimed in your edit summary). It's the same way that you would write "at the White House" even though the building is "White House" and not "The White House". Also, stop impersonating an intelligent person, you're not one (before anyone sends me a message, that is half meant to be a joke). TJ Spyke 20:04, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

What an absolute jerky response. Some buildings take the definite article and SOME DO NOT. This is one that doesn't. And, not that you deserve to know, but I'm a member of Mensa. stusutcliffe 00:41, 29 May 2009 (UTC)