Talk:St. Michael's Cathedral, Qingdao/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Mephiston999 (talk) 20:46, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Lead

• the lead needs expansion to cover and summarize all aspects of the article.

the lead is still short, look at St Mary's Church, Nantwich for an idea of what I mean

I have expanded it again. ɳorɑfʈ ^Talk! 02:17, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

It looks a lot better than at the beginning now. It could still do with some extra info from the SVD part in the history section.Mephiston999 (talk) 10:15, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

 Done I think it's ok now, good work. Mephiston999 (talk) 14:41, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

• change PRC in the infobox image caption to China

 Done Mephiston999 (talk) 00:39, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

• The introduction names the building as a cathedral then states that "it is also the seat of the bishop...", which is the definition of the term "cathedral". It might be better to word it: "as a cathedral, it is the seat of the bishop..." user: kjotvi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.55.184.70 (talk) 01:28, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

History

• It is possible that the first Catholic church in Qingdao, built in 1902 on the same site was called St. Emil's Church. It is also possible that "Emil" is a mistranslation of "Michael," as both names can have two out of three Chinese characters in common ("mi" and "el"). needs reference

The first sentence doesn't need a reference, in my opinion, because it is not stating a fact, merely a possible explanation for where that name may have come from. The second sentence is a fact, but rather than a reference showing it to be true, I will include the Chinese characters themselves, in parentheses. ɳorɑfʈ ^Talk! 00:54, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

is there a way to show that this idea is backed up by a researcher or academic?Mephiston999 (talk) 01:04, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

It is a fact that 2 of the 3 characters used are common to both names, as "Emil" in Chinese can be written as characters which are pronounced "A-MI-ER" and "Michael" can be written as characters which are pronounced "MI-KE-ER". I don't think that suggesting the possibility of confusion is original research. If you prefer, I can rewrite it to say "Michael and Emil have two out of three characters in common," and then leave it up to the imagination of the reader. ɳorɑfʈ ^Talk! 02:04, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

 Done Ok, then just leave it as it is. It just points out the coincidence I guess, I dont think it is considered original research in this case. Mephiston999 (talk) 10:12, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, in my opinion, it isn't a coincidence. I'm pretty sure there was never a St. Emil's Church in Qingdao. There are no records of SVD ever having a church named St. Emil's, and there's not even good evidence that a "St. Emil" actually exists. ɳorɑfʈ ^Talk! 11:38, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Description

• I would suggest transforming the quote into prose, since it is actually bigger than the rest of the text in that sentence, and the whole article lacks a lot of prose.

It is a translation of a quote, and that translation took a lot of work to get, so I'm loathe just to make it into prose. Also, the entire passage is cited from a single source. If I turn it into prose, what should I do, insert a reference tag every other sentence for the entire thing? While I understand that stylistically it may read better as prose, I think the translation is compelling as a first-person account, and something would be lost by converting it to prose. ɳorɑfʈ ^Talk! 11:44, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

OK, lets leave the quote.Mephiston999 (talk) 23:38, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

• All measurements in meters should have the equivalent in feet using the appropriate template.

 Done ɳorɑfʈ ^Talk! 23:55, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

• link the 2008 Olympics to the relevant article.

 Done Mephiston999 (talk) 10:12, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

• Father Fräbel's design was built under the tenure of Bishop Georg Weig, SVD, who is entombed in the cathedral. needs reference

Does it really? If so, my reference is going to be "Georg Weig's tombstone, St. Michael's Cathedral, Qingdao. I have a photograph of said tombstone, as well, if I need to post it. ɳorɑfʈ ^Talk! 01:01, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

then it's ok...no ref needed if you have a picture to prove it.Mephiston999 (talk) 01:06, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Should I upload the photo? Maybe I'll do an article on the guy, and can include it there. ɳorɑfʈ ^Talk! 01:55, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

 Done As you prefer, maybe uploading the picture and creating the article isnt a bad idea.

Miscellaneous

• be consistent with the date format in the reference section.

 Done ɳorɑfʈ ^Talk! 22:50, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

• add the coordinates at the top-right of the article using the appropriate template.

 Done ɳorɑfʈ ^Talk! 00:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

• move the history section before the description section

 Done Mephiston999 (talk) 00:33, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

• move the service section above the ordinaries section

 Done Mephiston999 (talk) 00:44, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

• when you swap the history and description sections, also swap the side on which the images are, in order to have the first one on the left and the second one on the right

 Done Mephiston999 (talk) 00:40, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I shall add more comments as the ones I list are solved or at least commented. Mephiston999 (talk) 20:47, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

The article now reflects all GA criteria, I will pass it.Mephiston999 (talk) 00:11, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

What else?

I think everything you raised has been dealt with one way or another. Are there any other improvements that are necessary? ɳorɑfʈ ^Talk! 20:00, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I would first like to congratulate you on an interesting and very well presented article. I do however have a suggestion. I could not find any direct link to Qingdao from the article itself. I think it would be a good idea to add it at the very beginning so that those of us who are not familiar with the city can immediately find it. You could simply write:

• St. Michael's Cathedral (Chinese: 圣彌格爾主教座堂) in Qingdao is a Roman Catholic cathedral, seat of the Diocese of Qingdao, Shandong, China.

And when I eventually found the article on Qingdao, I was surprised to find no reference to the cathedral except for an image titled "A church in Qingdao" (which is obviously the cathedral). I think it would be appropriate to mention the cathedral in the section of the Qingdao article on Culture. It certainly seems to be one of the architectural highlights of the city and one of the main contributions from the German period. But I would prefer to leave the wording to you. -- Ipigott (talk) 10:55, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

That's a good idea, thanks. I will fix it. That request for more suggestions was related to a good article nomination, which was successful. The article is currently a Featured Article Candidate, though, and you can leave comments at the candidacy talk page. I'd appreciate it if you went there, made any more comments that you may have, and then either support or oppose the nomination, as you see fit. ɳorɑfʈ ^Talk! 11:18, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

I had read all the comments on the FA nomination and it seems to me that everything is going very well. I just wanted to make these minor suggestions on the talk page and as I saw a What else?, I decided to put them there. Sorry if I caused any confusion. -- Ipigott (talk) 13:56, 25 March 2010 (UTC)