Talk:Somali diaspora

Third Opinion

A Third opinion has been requested about whether Refugees of Somalia should be a separate article from Somali diaspora. I will try to comment; maybe someone with admin glasses will need to take a look. It appears that there previously was an article on Refugees of Somalia that was then redirected to Somali diaspora. I haven't read the previous article on the refugees or the discussion that led to the redirect. On the one hand, the redirect was probably appropriate, because we don't need two articles when the information about the refugees, who, as noted, have a transient status, also is relevant to the diaspora. (Once the refugees receive immigrant visas somewhere, they remain part of the diaspora but are no longer refugees.) On the other hand, I haven't read the discussion that led to the redirect, and can't find it. My thinking is that, unless a compelling reason can be offered as to why a separate article is needed, it isn't. Any discussion should continue here. There hasn't been any discussion here. (This is the first substantive post to this talk page.) If there is any information about the refugees that isn't in the diaspora article, add it. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:01, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Would one of the two editors please explain whether there is something that I have missed? Why is a separate article needed? Robert McClenon (talk) 14:01, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Where was the discussion of the redirect? Robert McClenon (talk) 14:01, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Robert, that makes sense and is what I had thought. The fork was actually already tagged for deletion for the reasons you enumerated. The problem was that the refugee figures were based on nationality and mainly pertained to ethnic minorities, whereas the Somali diaspora page is on the transnational Somali ethnic group. The census estimates can delineate this ethnicity, but the migrant figures again appear to be based on country of origin. With that said, I've found one global estimate that pertains to ethnically Somali migrants [1]. Per the above, I've appended it to the Somali diaspora page. That should do it. Soupforone (talk) 15:27, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Thier is persistent references from certain users who like to over emphasize the number of somalis deported and committing fraud etc

i dont understand why the somali diaspora pages have to be bombarded with crime statistics and deportations statistics when these statistics do not appear in other immigrant ethnic group wiki pages i have removed these sources as they do not contain any valuable information about the culture soscio economics in regards to employment job salaries religion etc we need concrete information on the diaspora without what seems to be racist over exaggerations of negative aspects of somali immigration to be planted all over the diaspora wiki pages crime statistics have their own section and their is no need to mention deportees as they are no longer a member of the Somali diaspora — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sahasu (talk • contribs) 12:43, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

these sort of over emphazis on negative aspects of somali immigration can have serious consequences in terms of racially motivated hate crimes towards the community and their is no need for mentioning deported indeviduals or drawing emphasize on crime statistics on the fron page lead of an ethnic minority in Europe — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sahasu (talk • contribs) 12:48, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

The material you are deleting is certainly relevant to the subject and, being statistical in nature, not susceptible to criticism unless you wish to impugn the sources. You do not seem to be saying the sources are unreliable or that the statistics are erroneous. If you feel the inclusion of the material has a biasing effect, and that is your only objection, then the best way of dealing with it is to add material, well sourced, which you consider restores balance. So I would urge you to self-revert and restore the material (unless you are saying that the facts are unsupportable and the sources unreliable). sirlanz 13:00, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

As per WP:NOTNEWSPAPER, a handful of men reportedly bieng deported or committing crime or trying to join some political militant group(s) is news fodder. It hardly encapsulates the community at large - "Wikipedia considers the enduring notability of persons and events. While news coverage can be useful source material for encyclopedic topics, most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion." Wikinews is there for that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sahasu (talk • contribs) 14:20, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

and i will stress this one more time such refrences are not needed and their only pretext for bieng thier is pure racism why arnt british asian community page filled with sexual abuse scandals or germens wiki pages filled with nazi material in the front of a germen ethnic group wiki pages their is no reason for any of these issues to be stressed or ever emphazised in any of the articles about any ethnic group--Sahasu (talk) 14:24, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Other articles are irrelevant to this talk page per WP:OTHERSTUFF (read this link). As for this article, I agree with user sirlanz that the article could be extended with more material but that reliable material should stay in the article. Also Sahasu, you should discuss before restoring your edits per WP:BRD which you have violated. A Thousand Words (talk) 19:02, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

you ignored my argument and just blantly agree with the user above me wwith the material should be in the article but why, i already gave my reasons backed by the rules of wikipedia As perWP:NOTNEWSPAPER a handful of men reportedly bieng deported or committing crime or trying to join some political militant group(s) is news fodder. It hardly encapsulates the community at large - "Wikipedia considers the enduring notability of persons and events. While news coverage can be useful source material for encyclopedic topics, most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion." Wikinews is there for that take the the individual crimes and discuss it their it shouldn't be referenced to an entire population, individual crimes can be assigned to that individuals in his or her wiki page and not the entire population not every somali is responsible for a crime committed by a single individual if you have evidences of the entire somali population engaging in a crime put it in the article or else it shouldn't be their, it should be in the lead either cause thats not how a lead should be written take inspiration from other leads like somalis in united kingdom or somali americans--Sahasu (talk) 19:10, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Your arguments about other articles are irrelevant. Your accusations of racism aren't backed by any sources and fall under WP:NOTFORUM and violate WP:AGF. Your edits have violated WP:NOTCENSORED and WP:BRD. A Thousand Words (talk) 19:48, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

you have yet to offer any counter arguments to any of my above arguments, i have not even made any arguments concerning other arguments am talking about this article on this page, if you cant counter any of my arguments i suggest you leave it to other users on wikipedia --Sahasu (talk) 20:07, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

am going to try again

As perWP:NOTNEWSPAPER a handful of men reportedly bieng deported or committing crime or trying to join some political militant group(s) is news fodder. It hardly encapsulates the community at large - "Wikipedia considers the enduring notability of persons and events. While news coverage can be useful source material for encyclopedic topics, most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion." Wikinews is there for that take the the individual crimes and discuss it their it shouldn't be referenced to an entire population, individual crimes can be assigned to that individuals in his or her wiki page and not the entire population, if you have the name of the indevidual just make a page dedicated to him or discuss it in wikinews indevidual crimes deportations of individuals shouldn't be an assigned to an entire population--Sahasu (talk) 20:04, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

also the lead article should follow in accordance to wiki rules MOS:LEADELEMENTS also according to this, which the previous lead violated in the somalis in Denmark page for one

• Provide an accessible overview

The lead section should briefly summarize the most important points covered in an article in such a way that it can stand on its own as a concise version of the article. The reason for a topic's noteworthiness should be established, or at least introduced, in the lead (but not by using subjective "peacock terms" such as "acclaimed" or "award-winning" or "hit"). It is even more important here than in the rest of the article that the text be accessible. Editors should avoid lengthy paragraphs and overly specific descriptions – greater detail is saved for the body of the article. Consideration should be given to creating interest in the article, but do not hint at startling facts without describing them.

lengthy paragraphs and overly specific descriptions that the article in relation to crime and deportations should be avoided according to the statement and also guidelines and greater detail is saved for the body of the article, Consideration should be given to creating interest in the article, but do not hint at startling facts without describing them.

facts such as deportations or crime should be preserved in the rest of the article not necessarily the beginning of the page

• and according to Relative emphasis

Significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article, although not everything in the lead must be repeated in the body of the text. Exceptions include specific facts such as quotations, examples, birth dates, taxonomic names, case numbers, and titles

the lead must respect the body of the text Exceptions include specific facts such as quotations, examples, birth dates, taxonomic names, case numbers, and titles

• Opening paragraph

The first paragraph should define or identify the topic with a neutral point of view, but without being too specific, It should establish the context in which the topic is being considered by supplying the set of circumstances or facts that surround it. If appropriate, it should give the location and time. It should also establish the boundaries of the topic; for example, the lead for the article List of environmental issues succinctly states that the list covers "harmful aspects of human activity on the biophysical environment".

and am pretty sure a ethnic page about somalis isnt just comprised of crime rather it should be centered around the boundaries of the topic which is somalis in Denmark and not crime like for example the number of somalis in the country or which cities they inhabit and where and should include population size backed by sources or when did the somali people arrive in denmark this is a article about somalis in denmark generally so it should be centered on those boundaries

thats what should be included in the lead of the article not blatant references to crime and deportation — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sahasu (talk • contribs) 20:40, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Ismail ali abdi

@Waxan donaya passporka iga kumay inan ogado waxa igu qorna 41.79.199.30 (talk) 07:34, 3 October 2023 (UTC)