Talk:Seneschal/Archives/2012
Latest comment: 11 years ago by Dmutters in topic Fork?
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Unsourced Material
Article has been tagged for years for needing sources. Please feel free to reincorporate the below material with appropriate references. Doniago (talk) 21:43, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
The seneschal in noble houses
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==The seneschal in noble houses==
The most basic function of a seneschal was to supervise feasts and domestic ceremonies; in this respect, they were equivalent to stewards and majordomos. Sometimes, seneschals were given additional responsibilities, including the dispensing of justice and high military command. The term is probably of Gothic origin. In the Holy Roman Empire this officer had the title Drussard, or Truchsess (from Old High German truhtsâzo; "sitting in front of" the truht, the "Tross"; Latin Dapifer, French Écuyer de cuisine, Dutch Drossaard, Drost, Baljuw, Swedish Drots). |
Fork?
Isn't this just a fork of Steward (office)? "Seneschal" is basically just an anglicization of the French word for Steward, isn't it? john k (talk) 19:55, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
- I can provide some evidence to support your claim, John K. I was recently looking through my genealogical line via John Stewart of Scotland, and found that his parentage is as follows. Note the apparent transition from the surname/title, "The Seneschal" to the surname/title, "Steward," continuing to become, "Stewart."
- John Stewart - born 1243; fought alongside William Wallace in the Battle of Stirling Bridge (1297)
- Alexander Stewart - born 1214
- Walter Steward - (no date available to me, at this time)
- Alan Fitz Walter - died 1204
- Walter Fitz Alan - born 1100
- Alan Fitz Flaald - c. 1070
- Flaald - born 1040
- Alan Seneschal - c. 1025 (oldest ancestral date currently in my possession, as of Dec. 14, 2012)
- Fratmaldus The Seneschal
- Fratmundus Vetules - (oldest record I have, presently)
- Also worth noting is that "Seneschal"--probably a title being used by the Romans in Scotland (or France) at the time--is herein attested from BEFORE 1025 A.D. (The article has it from 1350-1400 A.D.) While I can't confirm with certainty that this was in Scotland (or France), I can confirm that John Stewart was one of two brothers considered to be of the "legitimate main stem" of the Scottish royal family. Since their "right to rule" would have (I presume) been passed down via the patriarchal line, it serves to reason that at least several of the other names in this list were Scottish royals, and that those who were not lived in or near Scotland. It's possible that Fratmundus Vetules and/or others came from France to settle in Scotland prior to Alexander Stewart's time (around 1214 A.D.).
- I hope this helps! :-)
- Source: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=mutters&id=I597
- Dmutters (talk) 08:15, 15 December 2012 (UTC)