Talk:Say Anything (band)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Cleanup

This page could really use some cleanup to fit with the rest of band pages...could look more like other band pages, listing the bandmembers and info such as birth date/place —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.193.68.132 (talk) 05:10, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

Comment

umm some of this is really untrue. max is bipolar, he didnt have a breakdown because of stress and ive never heard anything about him "walking the streets naked" he did have a break down in new york city... but i've never heard anything about that.

I erased that part of the paragraph and mentioned it to User:Adambiswanger1 on his talk page. NeilDespres 08:12, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry For The Wait

It's been a while since this article has been of any good reputation... vandalism sucks and it's generally lacking updates. Fear no more. I am here in all my pretentious glory to save it. No, jk, in with respect to the original page I am updating and correcting it. If you visit the Say Anything messageboard I'm transylvanian and if that means anything to you you know I know the band well. Tootles... post comments please!

EDIT:
OK, so, it is done. Please don't screw with it without posting questions here first! -Max

Hey! Great job on the SA page. I love them! They freaking rock. I am on the messageboards. loveinSA.

And your sn does mean something to me! I love that song! BartonBelle 21:01, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Recent edits

Someone removed the term "post-emocore" without any explanation; as I think that's a pretty accurate genrification, I reverted the edit. I also restored the cleanup tag, as the article has some serious POV problems; I am not sufficiently versed in the band's history to fix it all, but someone should. Please don't remove the tag without reason.Chubbles1212 03:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Someone keeps removing the cleanup tag. I don't know why, but I do believe that this article is in quite serious need of some de-hagiographification and simple rewriting in terms of style. Chubbles1212 22:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Well actually the band refer to themselves as a punk band they mentioned this in the Lyric Book for "Is a real boy"--Zetsuie 14:52, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Changed one of the links, to go directly to the article.

~Koiyuki12:38, 25 November 2006

Proposed change

I think that thier should be a change for bands genre but i thought i should post something here to see if people agree so heres an example of the change i want to make its from the first part of the article and i want to add whats in parenthesis and the reference is from the Is a Real Boy lyric book im not sure how to add that though

Say Anything is an American post-emocore(the band also refers to themselves in the lyric book for "Is A Real Boy" as a punk band) band consisting of 22 year-old Maxim “Max” Bemis (guitar/bass/vocals) and 21-year-old Jacob “Coby” Linder (drums and percussion).--Zetsuie 15:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, there's been some discussion on post-emocore as to the utility of the word, and whether or not it's just a neologism. I like the term, but perhaps simply "punk", or even "alternative rock", will get the job done. Chubbles1212 16:19, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Holocaust Denial

I tried finding a reputable source for this statement; all I found was This, which is the site from which a previous editor had lifted verbatim the two sentences just removed by Russ Is The Sex. This is the kind of thing that you'd expect would have enormous media coverage - so if it happened, why can't we dig up any more reputable sources? Chubbles1212 04:04, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

On the post-emocore wiki it says Max denied the existance of the holocaust on MTV. I know there is proof of this because I saw it. (moved from Bemis on MTV)

I don't reckon that he actually denied it/doesnt believe it happened. He wrote a song (ALive With The Glory of Love) about his grandparents being in a Concentration Camp (Treblinka, to be exact). how can someone write a song about the Holocaust and its impact upon his family and yet deny it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Evilest oreo (talk • contribs) 09:45, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Bemis is Jewish. It's highly unlikely that he would deny it, i've never seen anything about it. It's probably vandalism. Doc Strange (talk) 19:11, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

That onlineseats.com link called it a "publicity stunt." So, if that's true and it actually happened, it was probably a joke. And as the guys above mentioned, he's Jewish and wrote songs inspired by the Holocaust, so I doubt he really meant it (if he ever said anything like it at all). --icorey (talk) 17:08, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Plagiarism

Actually, taking at look at the site just cited...A hell of a lot of this article was lifted from it. Serious rewrite needed. Chubbles1212 04:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Ahhh!

Jeez... my discography... trashed. Going to have to put it back up. Who did that? That was comprehensive, and took a very long time... sad. And the history... demolished.

That happened as a result of the plagiarism; after I reported the copyright violation, they rolled back four months of edits to the point before the violation occurred. Which also, incidentally, must have erased your discography. Chubbles 20:16, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Bands Say Anything has toured with...

Do we really need a list of all those bands Say Anything have toured with? It would be nicer to say something like "Say Anything has toured with a numerous number of bands, most notably Dashboard Confessional, The Early November and The Get Up Kids."—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tommyhaych (talk • contribs) 15:54, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

OK...

"Bemis was convinced that the other members of the band were secretly filming him naked in the attempt to make a porn film about him."

OK. We really need to either figure out what K-Z Max ACTUALLY did when he had his brwakdown, or stop listing rumors and made-up crap. He WAS afraid he was being filmed for a bonus Making Of DVD to iaRB, but I'm pretty sure that there wasn't an x-ratedversion proposed.Thing which solomon overlooked 15:17, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

p.s. did a little discography pimping... anyone have the For Sale cover art?Thing which solomon overlooked 15:54, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I have some For Sale cover art I picked up from the Internet, but I don't know whether it would be allowed on the For Sale page. Thoughts? C.V. Reynolds (talk) 16:20, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Baseballsayanything.jpg

Image:Baseballsayanything.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:12, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Coby Linder

Hey. If anyone wanted to know, Coby Linder's mom's name is Jill Linder and she's the principle of my school. Its just something I know. They are and awesome band, and his mom is...ehh... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.123.206.249 (talk) 03:59, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Irrelevant Sections?

I noticed that the performances and members sections that were listed earlier this week have been removed on a revision deeming them as irrelevant sections. There seemed to be plenty of relevant and legitimate information compiled in those sections regarding the history of the band. I had started adding information about the most recent and upcoming tours in support of the new album when I realized that there had already been a whole section dedicated to this. I think it should be restored. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sushiwasadog (talk • contribs) 06:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC) Sushiwasadog (talk) 13:51, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Many of the information was mentioned on the page more than once; I deleted and kept certain ones accordingly.

I deleted the "Members" and "Performances" section.[1] I deleted the "Members" section because half of the section was just about who Max Bemis has sang with. If you deem that notable, then feel free to add that to Max Bemis's page. The article should be about the band "Say Anything", not about certain member's not notable side projects.

As for the "Performances" section, the entire section was unsorced. However, I can see some of the information being properly incorperated into the article (ie. "Say Anything co-headlined a U.S. tour in spring 2007..."), given relaible sources are found. --pbroks13^talk? 16:30, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

band members

i added more info about the band members. i kinda made up the dates based on the article i cited. If you find a source with with correct dates or correct info on the other band members, please update the members section. --icorey (talk) 04:14, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Original research for genre?

I noticed that there is an OR tag marked next to the main genre listed in the lead of the article. Why? Reading the article on alternative rock, Say Anything is very well defined as an alt rock outfit; at the very least Say Anything's subgenres find their origins in alt rock. What's the reason for the tag? Amphy (talk) 21:06, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure. I just removed it. --pbroks13^talk? 08:10, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

The only source for that paragraph is say anything's official bio, which refers to the band as a punk rock band, not alternative rock. --icorey (talk) 15:13, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Early outtings from the band are in the definite pop punk flavor, but they've settled into a much more alternative rock sound more recently. If you're going to properly source the genre, however, best to research throughout the net and figure out from RELIABLE sources what they've been branded as the most. Allmusic lists genres, for example... look them up —Vanishdoom (talk) 15:31, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

To-do list

Let's try to get some of these things done. It would be coool to get Say Anything to be a GA. From the peer review:

• The lead should be an accessible and inviting overview of the whole article. Nothing important should be in the lead only - since it is a summary, it should all be repeated in the body of the article itself. My rule of thumb is to include every header in the lead in some way. Please see WP:LEAD

 Done

• Internet refs need URL, title, author if known, publisher and date accessed. {{cite web}} and other cite templates may be helpful. See WP:CITE and WP:V

 Done

• Other unreleased tracks - what makes this notable? It needs a ref or two at the least. My rule of thumb is that every quote, every statistic, every extraordinary claim and every paragraph needs a ref.

 Done

• Article could use a copyedit - ask for help at WP:PRV. As one example see After recording In Defense of the Genre, Say Anything band members Max Bemis and Coby Linder worked with Saves the Day's Chris Conley and David Soloway on a side project reportedly named Two Tongues originally set for release sometime in summer 2008.
• A model article is often helpful for ideas and examples to follow - Radiohead is a FA and may be a useful model

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

• Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Wikipedia:Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.^[?]

 Done

• Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.^[?]

 Done

• Per WP:WIAFA, this article's table of contents (ToC) may be too long – consider shrinking it down by merging short sections or using a proper system of daughter pages as per Wikipedia:Summary style.^[?]

 Done

• Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.^[?]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, --pbroks13^talk? 08:13, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

about the unreleased tracks: there are 5 references in there. I guess I don't understand what notable means, though. Say Anything recorded them and never officially released them. In 2002 and 2003, they were listed on say anything's official website.

and all the references use the {{cite x}} templates (I think). I know when I accessed them, I'll add the dates. --icorey (talk) 16:53, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm kind of bothered by the unreleased listing itself. Maybe a discography article should be created to house all their releases along with those tracks? They have quite a bit in their catalog, so it'd be nice to reduce the clutter. —Vanishdoom (talk) 00:22, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I fixed the web citations. Also, I removed the links to dates. --icorey (talk) 02:21, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Themes and influences

I most of the specific song names in this section. If anyone opposes that decision, please let me know. --pbroks13^talk? 19:06, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Say Anything (band)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

---

This article is in decent shape, but it needs more work before it becomes a Good Article.

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   In the Sayanything (2000–2002) section, this sentence ---> "Bemis began writing songs; his first was called "Sappy", maybe adding "song" or "one", your choice, after "first".

   Check. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 15:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

   In the Signing with Doghouse Records (2002–2004) section, it would be best if "…Is a Real Boy" is linked once, per here. In the Major label and more breakdowns (2005) and First headlining tours (2005–2007) sections, link "bipolar disorder" and "Was a Real Boy" once. In the In Defense of the Genre (2007–2008) section, fix the link to "Anthony Green". Same section, link "In Defense of the Genre" once.

   Check. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 15:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   References 5, 6, 7, 11, 14, 16, 17, 18, 23, 44, 47, 48, 51, 52, and 56 are missing Publisher info.

   Check. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 15:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   Does Reference 10 cover all this ---> "After signing with the label, Bemis began writing songs for his band's Doghouse debut. He and Linder also started the search for a producer. The two met several producers but eventually decided on Tim O'Heir and Stephen Trask. Bemis struggled with different ideas for the record and decided the album should focus on "the artistic struggle, the fact that every creative person has this sick ambition to affect some sort of change in society with their art, to be more than just a guy in a band or a poet or a sculptor"?

   Check. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 15:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

   It would be best if images Say Anything @ Pipeline Cafe.jpg and Say Anything max coby.png are placed on the right, per here.

   Check. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 15:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   If the following statements can be answered, I will pass the article. Good luck with improving this article!

--  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 15:46, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Fixes

1.A: fixed
1.B: fixed
2.A: I added publishers for all of these, except for a couple I only added the works for. This seems OK, but if it's not, let me know.
2.B: That reference was there for the quotation. I removed the reference and just left the two references at the end of the paragraph (10 and 11), from where I got all the information for that paragraph.
6.B: photos are now on the right
--icorey (talk) 14:45, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you to icorey for getting the stuff I left at the talk page, because I have gone off and placed the article as GA. Congrats. ;) --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 15:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)