Talk:Sailor Moon/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

Fanboys, be appeased!

If you've been checking the "Recent changes" page lately, you've probably noticed I've been doing a lot of redirects. Well, this is part of something I like to call Project Shut Up Sailor Moon Fanboys. Basically, I've covered every single base to ensure that fanboys won't have any silly gripes over Wikipedia content. I've done a lot of stuff and I'm tired, so I'm going to bed, but I'll continue when the sun comes up.

Some things I will NOT do:

• acknowledge Ikuni-ism Sailor Moon;
• romanize Sailor into "Seera" or "Seeraa" for redirects;
• try to read fanboy's minds ("I tried to look up 'Sailor Taitainiamukeroko' and got nothing! Wikipedia sucks!')

If you have any comments or suggestions, I'd like to hear them, but I'd rather you put them in my talk page, or in the Wiki link for the Project. Danny Lilithborne 10:30, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Demographics?

However, in a bit of irony, while being targeted to girls in Japan, Sailor Moon has attracted a primarily adult male fanbase in English-speaking countries.

Umm, is this true? Can we get a source for it? I know it was always a girl show when I was young. -GregoryWeir 21:14, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

That would be false. I did a project on it, and the primary audience has been in English Spaeaking countries, girls 9-teens, and mainly girls. 60% are girls 40% are guys. DiC, and also a survey I did for College.

Hitsuji Kinno

Sailor Senshi Page

I think that besides the main inner/outer senshi, we should compile a list of all the senshi in the anime/manga for the page. Even joke ones, like Sailor Guccicci, etc. And on that note, is Tubby Kamen really a "senshi"? Even a joke senshi? I mean, the author said that senshi can only be girls, but then again, although Mamoru isn't a senshi, he is the equivalent of 'Sailor Earth'. Mayukhers112 00:39, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Anime - Manga

Why were the anime is different from the Manga... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.200.34.179 (talk • contribs)

Do you mean, "Why was the manga different from the anime?" That's not for a Wikipedia page, that's for a fan website. Wikipedia only wants to introduce the subject, not detail the series. Please also sign your posts.

Hitsuji Kinno 03:26, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Working in some sources...

Scholarly journals are good sources, no?

Interesting tidbit to work somewhere into the article:

The journal is restricted access.. If you're affiliated with a University, you may be able to get a full copy of the article either through a campus subscription or Interlibrary Loan.

Japanese Studies[1] Volume 20, Number 1/May 1, 2000 Anne Allison

Bandai was heavily involved in the promotional campaigns in the US as they were banking on the success of the show to generate sales of their toy merchandise, mainly dolls, which were originally scheduled to come out one month before the start of broadcast (September 1995). As it turns out, there was a delay due to reported disagreements in Bandai over what changes to make to the Japanese version of the doll for US sales.¹ Their concern seems to have been both justified and insuficient, in the end, as the reason Sailor Moon ultimately failed in this market, I have been repeatedly told, was because it never really registered with the tastes and desires of American girls. In short, Sailor Moon was perceived as being too 'different'.

She goes on to explain later in the article that the dolls were not a hit with the US audience because they still looked too Japanese. They looked alien, I believe was the reason. Mentioning the the changable nature of the faces in the Anime -- noses dissapearing, huge mouthes, and the changing styles of the character eyes in the anime. There was an interesting quote from a Bandai official stating that Sailor Moon would be more popular than Barbie because Sailor Moon has a back story.

And then she goes on to explain the cultural attraction of Sailor Moon to young females in Japan:

Feminists, such as commentator Minomiya Kazuko, see the reality of better gender relations and more career and lifestyle opportunities for women today in Japan reflected in the bishoujo hiro [hero] trend.² Japanese girls are happier and more satisfied to be born female today than ever before, she notes, which is conveyed in the upbeat characterization of Sailor Moon who is not only a strong hero, but also an ordinary girl who enjoys her indulgences. The very ordinariness of the hero, so different from the typical male hero, is a positive role model for girls as well as boys, she argues. Using the somewhat odd word `risoukyou ’ (utopic) to describe the very earthbound nature of Serena/Usagi, Minomiya applauds her everyday indulgences of shopping, eating, video games, and general hanging-out with her girlfriends. That such a `normal’ girl can then go on to fight evil and become a superpower is a more balanced portrayal of heroism than the standard male scenario where the hero seems perfect and focused from the beginning, and is both willing and required to sacrifice everything for his `job’ (as are corporate sarariiman). Girls, in short, can see themselves in both the flawed Usagi and the super-enhanced Sailor Moon, which will encourage them to be both comfortable as girls and inspired to seek out careers or missions as adults unrestricted by their gender. (A Japanese career woman told me she saw this differently, however; the blemishes Usagi displays under the cloak of superheroism are the masquerade working women must be willing to adopt in Japan in order to assuage the egos of their male co-workers.) For boys too, there is a positive message, according to Minomiya, though her claims that boys watched the show were disputed by Bandai executives I interviewed during the summer of 1998, who said the show had been strictly `for girls’ . Violence and chauvinism are less a part of heroism in this girl’ s brand of the superpower and the emphasis given to interpersonal relations and everyday life models a life where family and friends can be balanced with work and vocation.

She goes on to conjecture that a reason the show didn't catch on with US audiences was because the culture is different. Usagi was seen a too whiny; and, I guess to paraphrase, she wasn't superhero enough. She also suggests that the show was mismarketed. That it was put into bad time slots handled badly by DiC and Bandai.

Small snippets of a 22 page article should be within the realm of fair use--I hope.

¹Asahi Shinbun, `Amerika shiyou ni henshin yo’ (Transforming to Suit American Specification), Asahi Shinbun, 14 July 1995 (evening edition), p. 1.

²Minomiya Kazuko, `Bishoujo hiiro wa doko eiku ka?’ (Where are Beautiful Young GirlHeroes Going?), in Kouei Cult Club (Ed.), Bishoujo Hiiro Senki (War Journals of Beautiful Young Girl Heroes) (Tokyo: Kouei, 1994), pp. 128± 135.

--Kunzite 02:06, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Where is this reference?

Where in this article is information from this book referenced? If there is nothing references from this book, why is it listed in the references? (Other than the author trying to sell books, I suspect. )

• Navok, J & Rudranath, SK (2005). Warriors of Legend: Reflections of Japan in Sailor Moon (Unauthorized). North Charleston: Booksurge, LLC. ISBN 1419608142.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

--Kunzite 02:01, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

This was my attempt to start this article on its way to featured status, but it seems I just barked up the wrong tree.  Denelson83  06:04, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Do you own the book? Can you pull some quotes from it to back up portions of the Sailor Moon article? Also, your user pages notes that you're in University. Your Univeristy has a library; now-a-days most universities allow you to access many online journal and newspaper resources from home. Perhaps you can get into access to that large, helpful thing and find some sources of information to incorporate into the article to help make it more likely to be featured. --Kunzite 22:09, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm in College, not University, and it's too cumbersome for me to look through online journals that aren't accessible from the outside.  Denelson83  23:41, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Most academic libraries offer remote access to databases and scholarly journals. --Kunzite 05:50, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I made the article ages ago and someone deleted it. Incidentally I'm not the author but I own the book and really liked it. It's very good, at least in my opinion. GracieLizzie 16:44, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Character Profile Clean Up

We all need to agree on a form for the profile pages--they are so inconsistent. One will have an introduction, and then other stuff in the body, and then another one witll have an introduction, separated attacks, and other things. It's quite confusing. Plus I think that manga and anime information under any heading should be separated-- so attacks should have a manga and anime subheading. The personalities if they are to be distinguished should as well. The switching back and forth in the paragraphs left me confused as to what was truly meant. It also will give a visual cue... Any suggestions on the exact format of the character page in the exact order, etc should be addressed here. It should be conisistent and easy to understand throughout. Hitsuji Kinno 23:21, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Serenity Should be fixed

I tried to fix all of the Queen Serenity's, Princess Serenity's, ect. becuase the correct term is Selenity, but I don't have the time or the patience. Too much of this needs to be minorly over-hauled and fixed. I've tried to fix what I can (like Hotaru's attack Death Ribbon Revolution as opposed to the incorrect Death Reborn Revolution), but I do not have all day to go back and fix all of the many little mistakes. Also, somebody apparantly thinks many words have random Z's in them (like frisbee). I tried to fix those. Basically this whole thing needs someone who has some clue as to what they're doing to go back and clean up some of the information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CureWhite (talk • contribs) 16:59, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

• Nope. "Selenity" is not a valid English word, while "Serenity" is. Just because Japanese speakers unify their l's and r's doesn't mean we should violate English spelling to reflect this.  Denelson83  17:59, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
• I disagree about the use of "Selenity" in place of "Serenity". Aside from the essay that Ian Miller has posted on this subject, I'm pretty sure that WP policy is to use the most common name, and in this resepct, Serenity beats Selenity on a simple Google search: 79,000 for "queen serenity" vs. 1,330 for "queen selenity". "princess serenity": 27,900 vs 1,330 for "princess selenity". Gemtiger 18:12, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
• No. I'm not sure about "Frizbee", but I'm 100% sure that Death Reborn Revolution is correct. And there are a lot of very intelligent, well-informed people here working on the page. Sorry, but I don't consider someone who thinks "Selenity" is the correct spelling to be well informed. Danny Lilithborne 21:52, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
• Selenity is not a "real word" in English, but it is in fact what Naoko-Hime intended. You can like it or not, but Serenity was never intended to be the terminology. Also, Google search comes up because the majority of people go off the Dubbed version, which used an incorrect translation. Sorry, but the name is correctly Selenity. There is numerous reasons to support this. First of all, Alex GLover, best known for his translations of Sailor Moon (and Naoko-Hime's other works) uses Selenity. Second of all, Naoko-hime's own love of mythology. She intentionally chose Endymion, who fell in love with SELENE the moon gooddess to be Usagi's mate. On top of all that, there is the fact that Selenity comes from Selenite, the name of a stone that is believed to wax and wan with the moon. Once again combined back with the Moon and Naoko-hime used various gemstones and minerals as names (from Danubrite in Sailor V to Kunzite in the BSSM to Saffiru and Esmeraude in R, Zirconia in SuperS, and Iron Mouse in the later in Stars, just to name a very few). There is absolutely NO support for Serenity, where there is numerous support for Selenity. The correct term is Selenity. And if you don't think I'm well informed, well then you really haven't done any research at all. Look I don't care if you guys want to fix this site because right now, someone can get more information about BSSM from a site that thinks Venus's attack is "Venus Lovely Chain" than this wikipedia article. There is probably more accuracy on those sites too. There are an aweful lot of mistakes made on these pages and misinformation. You can leave it or you can fix it or at the very LEAST try to allow the fact that there is more than one interpertation (like Death Ribbon Revolution, the correct term if you can read the Katakana and if you look closely at the Manga vs. Death Reborn Revolution which was a construct of the video games, much like Saturn's henshin). No skin off my back, the only people you're hurting is those who want information and then they come off looking stupid because you're too stubborn to look at the facts.CureWhite
• You're not helping your "cause" by being a jerk. While I admit you have a minor point about Selenity, since Alex Glover does in fact use the term, most people accept the term "Serenity", and neither Kodansha, Toei, nor Takeuchi-sensei have explicitly said that the term is wrong. And just about everything else you've said does not have a basis in reality. And you have yet to cite any sources other than your own sense of indignation and your attitude that "Wikipedia is a joke". Sorry, we're not biting. You'll have to do the work here. Danny Lilithborne 22:26, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
• Wikipedia isn't the joke, it's the people that act like they're so much more intelligent and that they know vastly more than I do because I dare suggest something that they don't like rather than I don't know, doing some research or at least asking me to clarify before they take down all my additions just because they don't like them and they think they know more. I did not make the changes here to just stroke my own ego and prove that I'm so vastly superior and the all-knowing Sailor Moon fan. I changed them because the information presented was wrong. I thought that's what Wikipedia was about. Apparantly it's not. FYI, as for the person that ones to argue that Selenity isn't a word, then I suggest you go hunt down correct English "translations" for Metallia, En, Germatoid, Animamates, and a few dozen other words in Sailor Moon. (CureWhite)

• I also have a problem with this argument. Ian Miller uses this as misguided reasoning for the use of "Amazones" over "Amazoness." Because the word a word is not 'logical' in English, it cannot be 'valid'.

  - The parts together are semantically redundant because "Amazon" refers to a human (a female), and the human Amazon is already female http://antares7.absoludicrous.net/articles/amazones/index.html

  Naoko Takeuchi used the JAPANESE language; not English. His "Amazones" over "Amazoness" is an argument that I do not buy. His reasons that "Amazones" is a more proper word than "Amazoness" is because it's feminizing a word that was female in origin. (Even though the word "Amazoness" as Amazon +ess appears in a Japanese dictionary. See:Infoseek:アマゾネス --> アマゾネス　［日 ＜Amazon＋-ess（女性）］ Translation --> Amazoness　[Japanese. Etymology: Amazon＋-ess（woman）]) --Kunzite 00:06, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

• I really, really dislike Ian Miller. I will establish that early on. Many in the fan community also don't appreciate his behavior and work, BUT there is a point where this Selenity/Serenity thing takes effect. It's rather petty for anyone to argue this. It is what we call a *PUN*. Takeuchi-sensei loves puns, she puts in puns in every work she's done so far. From the Cheiri in Cherry Project, to the "no" in the names of the Senshi. Serenity refers to the Sea of Serenity. Selene refers to the Goddess of the Moon. (Both being mentioned in the manga) therefore SELENITY and SERENITY are BOTH valid. Neither is invalid in the face of the other, this is the EXACT problem with Ian Miller's arguments. He always goes to great lengths to discount one or the other, when it can be a pun of sorts. Takeuchi-sensei is a very educated person. She said she went to the library evey day and researched for at least an hour to check out how legit her information was. In spite of this she's also not perfect. And many puns that are in Sailormoon simply do not translate into English. Puns are puns, and many of them will not translate into other languages. I *do* have massive problems with Ian Miller's "work" but if you are going to argue one over the other, then try to present both--make a small mention of it, and then go on. Hepburn wasn't perfect either as a 100% Caucasion male. The English language and alphabet was simply not meant to represent all of the thousands of languages in the world, so compensate for it and make that mention.

Hitsuji Kinno 21:22, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree, Miller's refusal to openly recognize the myriad puns within the series is a red flag that his information could be deeply effected by bias/opinion and therefore must be analyzed even more critically than the usual suspects. -- NatsukiGirl\^talk 20:02, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Animamates vs. Metallic Knights

Technically, Aluminum Siren, Lead Crow, Tin Nyanko, Iron Mouse, and Heavy Metal Papillon (and any evil musical spawns) are the Metallic Knights, a subset of the Animamates. Each of the Metallic Knights are DIFFERENT from the other Animamates (Phi, Chi, Lethe and Mnemosyne). The Metallic Knights actually murdered the senshi of their planet (or betrayed them) and Galaxia granted them Senshi powers through her galatic braclets. The Animamates are those that betrayed their planets willingly, giving them over to Galaxia because of fear of death (or a desire to do evil?). It is also important to note that while it states that Lethe and Mnemosyne are sisters, it is never stated that they are sisters in the Manga and in fact, the two are from different planets. It appears they are from twin planets though and their actions in the Manga lead people to believe they are lovers (Lethe clings to Mnemosyne often and they try to hold hands as they die). Phi and Chi appear to be from a similar sistuation, but it's impossible to know for sure since they're evil and they just get killed. (CureWhite 04:18, 28 February 2006 (UTC))

• I have never heard the term "Metallic Knights" before this, and while the distinctions you make between them and the rest of the Animamates are interesting, Google says it's a fanfic term. Where is it in the original source material? Gemtiger 14:55, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
• This isn't the first time CureWhite tries to advance a fan term as canon. Danny Lilithborne 22:27, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
• Um, I'm pretty sure that Phi, Chi, Lethe, and Mnemosyne are not Animamates to begin with, contrary to popular belief. Mayukhers112 00:26, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
• Phi, Chi, Lethe, and Mnemosyne were originally Senshi of their own planets who turned against their own planets. In otherwords, they willingly gave themselves over to Galaxia. The others, the Metallic Knights, were in fact created senshi. As for my source material, I do believe it is mentioned in the original Manga or in the Anime. I will double check because I admit that I do not know where I got the term from. I've known people using it for years and I could be 100% wrong about it. The fact that it just so happens to be a clear definition between the 2 groups may just be coincidental. I'm willing to admit that there may be some fanfic element to it as suggested here [2], but I don't 100% trust this guy since he discards the idea of Selenity so easily when it has clear elements. ALso, Danny Lilithborne just doesn't like me because I dared challenge him on Death Ribbon Revolution. Anyhow, don't worry, I won't add anymore changes to this page since no matter how correct it is, it gets taken down. And even after I've proven it, they still disagree with me and refuse to put it back up. (CureWhite)

• Sources, people, sources. If you have an original Japanese source (Manga, Anime, Myu, Videogame, news articles, etc..) for any of these terms please provide them. Otherwise, we'll consider them fan termniology and not use them. And use wikiformatting when you make replies. These long conversations with no indents are hard to read. --Kunzite 23:41, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

• Sorry, it is not--there is no distinction made in title, because in the manga, Nyanko, etc might not have been senshi of their own planets, however, they were citizens of the planets that they claim to belong to. for instace Tin Nyanko stole the Sailor Crystal from Sailor Mau. But that title is not ever mentioned in the manga. Check your sources BEFORE posting, and that includes page number, episode number, and if need be frame number. And no, I don't like Ian Miller, but this is from knowing who he is and how he works, so I find much of his work erroneous. BTW, It's supposed to be Xi and Pi (Greek letters, shown in the manga, BTW, volume 17, I believe when they first show up. Definitely volume 12 of the shinzoubon)... if you're going to take Ian Miller's side of things, you have to be consistent.

Hitsuji Kinno 21:30, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

• I hate to be nitpicky (and off-topic), but they are Sailor Phi and Sailor Chi. It's Sailor Φ, not Sailor π. Her partner's name is Sailor Χ, not Sailor Ξ. - Gemtiger 01:18, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• What title is not mentioned in the manga? Sailor Mau? That one is mentioned in Act 46 - Stars 4. --Kunzite 02:03, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

First: In the anime, there are NO other Animamates villains other than Sailors Aluminum Siren (that's a possible pun, by the way, on the French word for "Mermaid", and a "Sailor Mermaid" and "Planet Mermaid" are briefly mentioned in the manga in a different scene from her), Lead Crow (also a possible pun, as in Japanese it could also be pronounced "Red Crow", and her main colors are red and black), Tin Nyanko, and Iron Mouse. Just thought I'd mention that.

Second: "Sailor Mau" is mentioned in the manga (though not the anime), but NOT mentioned as being the title of Sailor Tin Nyanko, who allegedly stole her power from Sailor Mau and was from the planet Mau (same planet that Luna and Artemis came from in the manga). I think that's where the confusion here originated; that person must have meant "Tin Nyanko isn't called Sailor Mau, she stole her power from Sailor Mau".

Third: I do not recall if Phi, Chi, Mnemosyne or Lethe were actaully called "Animamates" in the manga or not, but I do recall that in the English translation of the manga, that's how their names were spelled. However, they (Tokyopop/Smile Books) also first called Lead Crow "Red Crow" (before switching) and called the Galaxy Cauldron the "Galaxy Cordon", so I don't know if we can trust it to be the absolute best translation possible as far as figuring out what the Japanese version says. ~ EM 169.139.190.6 21:52, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality of this whole pro or anti SOS thing

I'm not necessarily suggesting the inclusion of an SOS link, but I seriously think this pro or anti SOS talk has to stop if this discussion wants to remain NPOV. As I understand it, SOS managed some things although it also ended up in some controversies. Prince Uranus, according to my own contact with an SOS member, was something that was a famous gaffe for them as well. A member had read an interview to that effect, so they posted it. They couldn't find it when challenged, so they removed it as errata. This guy himself was also putting a hand to his forehead anytime the Prince Uranus thing was brought up again. I know how famous an example this is, but I hardly think this qualifies as more damning than the errata on some other pages. We DO reference someone who thought it was "Silver Water Crystal" after all, and that's just as bad an errata. Again, I'm not speaking simply pro-SOS here. If we talk about the continued life of Sailor Moon here, the SOS invariably comes in (at least for the Cartoon Network verifiable accomplishment)... an NPOV article could say that and say that they were controversial (pointing first to them and then to detractors with reference note placed on the word controversery) or some such. Of course, such mentions would be best on an English adaptation page, just saying. I'm not saying we need to include an SOS link at all, I just think that we need to remember to go NPOV here at least in how we think about this article. Way too much anti-SOS propaganda on the talk page, which may bleed over to the main page one day. Just remember that sources aren't NPOV but we should be NPOV about handling them instead of fighting age-old website wars. Let's not forget that both the SOS and several other sites here all stemmed from (or interacted with) the old "Loony" mailing list. A lot of pro and anti SOS stuff is from people who went with the campaign or went with criticizing it at every step from first being on that old list. 17:24, 8 March 2006 (UTC)Ismail

Sorry, but I can't buy this either. This argument does not hold water. Without going into a long rant I will list other false information on and currently posted by SOS.

• They have a long standing relationship with the following companies: Cartoon Network, Pioneer, Geneon, (I also doubt Andy Heyward since I know who he is and I know how much of a crazy person he is, AND I can produce sources from inside of the animation industry if you'd like. Starting with my friend at Warner Bros.)

• They fed wrong info to Stuart Levy, despite his breaking off relations with them at my advice they continued to pretend that he was still talking to them.

• The Naoko "chat" thing was an outright lie, so they made up a false story about how Stuart Levy went all psycho and in 1998 and was responsible for a "horrid" convention. This I also tracked down, and found to be summarily false. Most of the fans there loved the chance to see Takeuchi-sensei. I have a primary source too, Lunar Archivist who went with a friend. You can contact him as well.

• The Takeuchi-sensei and Togashi-sensei hate fan mail. They made this one up after the failed chat, which I call petty revenge, not only is it not mentioned as true many, many times, and Nakayoshi is *still* running Sailormoon fan art, and Takeuchi-sensei talks about how much she loves Sailormoon, AND boasted on her webste that she has a piece of merchandise no one else can get, but they included the innocent Togashi in there. Takeuchi-sensei loves fan mail. The only reason they did this because they hated the fact she went over to Shueisha, and even went to great lengths in this report to marr her name. And, yes, I have sources for this too.

• They knew Prince Uranus was wrong, and still kept it on their FAQ. They never redid their FAQ either, and I e-mailed them in 1998. They never really restracted the story or said they were wrong either.

• Their "friend" sources. Once they cited in an e-mail a Japanese source that said that if one person buys fan merchandise from a vendor for the creator when she wants to buy it that it's "rude". I still have this e-mail, by the way, if you'd like to verify. So I tracked down this source of theirs with a lot of persuading, and I found out this person doesn't speak English, what's more they don't even know SOS exists. This is consistent with the other stuff they pulled.

• The Pop Tart scam. Buy Pop Tarts and support Sailormoon.

• The PNP is preventing Sailormoon coming to the US lie (more recent BTW).

• The anti Takeuchi news reports (someone is holding a grduge from oh say 8 years ago...)

• The hidden members report. This is because they clearly didn't want to get flamed after all of the things I've listed.

• Oh and there is no proof that anything SOS did got Sailormoon on the air on Cartoon Network. They produced no people, personnel nor verifyable e-mail address for this, and many SM fans will not acknowledge this as their accomplishment, because it happened to coincide with other things as well.

I worked for Tokyopop for a few months (I have the e-mail verifying that as well, as well as eye witnesses.) So how many legit sources did SOS actually report and post? None. If you want to advocate for SOS then tell me what news report they have done right after reading and talking to the people over at Sailormoon Uncensored. The SM comminuty as a whole hates SOS with jusitification. Not only did it deface what the SM fan stood for, but there was a big cheer when they stopped posting their erroneous information. (And believe me this list is only the tip of the iceburg.) Anyone care to add to this list go ahead... I welcome it wholeheartedly. There is no justification for wrong information without sources. (We are all praying for the day that SOS goes away permanently and stops hosting their website--which you can also report to your friend too. And believe me, that above all else that will be huge happy news.)

Hitsuji Kinno 21:53, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

So uh, you didn't go on a long rant? :-)

SOS isn't something this friend does anymore. I'm not going to bug them about a past event for them, as it's already

enough of a mixed bag of a past. I assure you, he's heard all the criticism leveled at SOS at one point or another.

Sure, the site is still up, but they're done.

My main concerns were not to defend the SOS, actually. It was just to get people on this page to stop arguing... the

Sailor Moon-related pages are fragile in terms of easily bending one way or another (rejecting reasonable name spellings

or going POV on certain matters) and it's been amazing to see just how much fierce debate goes on with the talk pages of

those pages. Being Pro SOS OR Anti SOS on the main page would be horribly POV is what I would say (at the very least, if

you get no info from them, just don't mention them) and all the talk on the talk page here worried me that eventually such

argument would spill onto the main page in some form. Sources aren't NPOV, but as long as we handle them NPOV we're

okay. We don't need to fight age-old website wars. You cited knowing Stuart Levy and knowing they lied about him, for

example. I see no point in continuing the "I know someone" debates where both of us could say that and others could chime

in and we just start fighting again. It's worse than a sub-dub war :) (speaking of anime in general. I did want to point

out though that many people, both with SOS and against SOS, apparently interacted in the heyday (if not now) on the Loony

mailing list. Whether for factual reasons or not, the pro and anti SOS people (including yourself, I'd wager) are folks

that were on that list and eventually came to agree to disagree, but that interacted with each other way back when

regardless of where they ended up (in SOS or otherwise).

I respect that you're willing to consider sources and also not consider them as perfect - above you mention being hesitant

about Ian Miller, the guy who said "Silver Water Crystal." I was using his example to say that we weren't heaping hate on

him for being wrong, so let's just stop heaping hate on anyone at this point. We don't need to cite SOS, but we can also

let it go over here. It's 11 years after the original DiC TV release and 14 years since the anime began running.

Since I'm not sure I'm clear, let me just itemize: 1) I am just concerned that bile will spill OUT of the talk pages, 2)

and at the very least SOS members were in the same shared old community as those who did many other sites, 3) and we use

other folks that have errata, truthfully.

I also appreciate you didn't argue names with me :-). So we in fact see eye to eye on much. 72.192.237.134 03:31, 14 April 2006 (UTC)Ismail

Name standards

One way to fix the debate over names would be to strictly romanize by one system, even if it puts R's where L's would go, and let the individual character pages linked to talk about all the name permutations such as the Serenity/Selenity and Metaria/Metallia debates. Perhaps a first note that names that are starred have some other interpretations and to see the character page for that person regarding the versions. 72.192.237.134 17:24, 8 March 2006 (UTC) Ismail

Anime vs Manga images

Question: Which image type should be represented? So far only anime images are used, thus giving users only one side of the picture. This constitutes bias, does it not? The original incarnation of Sailor Moon was in fact the manga version, should its art not trump the mainstream anime version? I think there should be some representation of both forms. I see that the header title images was deleted, and wonder if this issue has not already been resolved. Curious... Strideranne 12:58, 23 March 2006 (UTC)strideranne

• I feel somewhat similarly. Danny Lilithborne 15:17, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
• Don't see why not, nor can see why there could be any objections. Go for it. Melodia Chaconne 17:31, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
• Actually.... I've always felt that we should upload low-res covers of the manga tankoubon and create a volume/issn list like some of the shows have. It would be nice to try for featured list status. I'd also like to see some more myu, video game, and PGSM covers in addition to the manga. All keeping within the wikipedia rules, of course. --Kunzite 02:19, 24 March 2006 (UTC)