Talk:Paul Hunter/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Cavie78 (talk · contribs) 13:01, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

I'll take a look at this Cavie78 (talk) 13:01, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

• Thanks for taking a look at this Cavie78 - I'm currently offering QPQ for all reviews, do you have any GA/FA/FL/DYK etc. open that you'd like me to take a look at? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:50, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
  • No problem. I don't do a lot of article writing anymore, but I have a long memory so I'll ping you next time I bring something to GA ;) Cavie78 (talk) 14:30, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Lead

• "all by recovering from a deficit to win 10–9" -> "all after recovering from a deficit to win 10–9"
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:02, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "He also won three ranking events. He won the Welsh Open in 1998 and 2002 and the British Open in 2002" I think you need to make it clear that these are the ranking events you're talking about. Maybe "He also won three ranking events: the Welsh Open in 1998 and 2002 and the British Open in 2002"?
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:02, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "During the 2004/2005 season, he attained a career-high ranking of number four in the world." Link 2004/05 season to 2004–05 snooker season and ranking to Snooker world rankings? Change 2004/2005 to 2004/05
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:02, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "Hunter was compared to the success of footballer David Beckham being nicknamed the "Beckham of the Baize" because of his good looks and flamboyant style." -> "Hunter was compared to footballer David Beckham, being nicknamed the "Beckham of the Baize" because of his good looks and flamboyant style."
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:02, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "In March 2005 Hunter was diagnosed with neuroendocrine tumours." I think you should expand this slightly and mention his attempted comeback
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:02, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "In his memory, an event was renamed the Paul Hunter Classic and in April 2016 the Master's trophy was renamed the Paul Hunter Trophy." -> "In his memory, a tournament in Fürth, Germany, was renamed the Paul Hunter Classic and, in April 2016, the Master's trophy was renamed the Paul Hunter Trophy."
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:02, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "the highest a 146" -> "the highest being a 146"
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:02, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Early Life

• "he was awarded an award" -> "he won an award" OR "was given an award"
  • Of course Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:51, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "the best best junior snooker player of the year" Also, the best junior player where? Leeds? Yorkshire? England? UK?
  • The source doesn't mention it at all, so I've removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:51, 2 July 2020 (UTC)/
• "With the help of Jimmy Michie and Johnson, Hunter made his debut among the professionals" It's not clear what you mean here by "help". Did they coach him? What do you mean by "among the professionals" Do you mean he turned pro? Took part in a specific tournament along with pros?
  • The source just says "guided". Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:51, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Early career (1995–2000)

• "the youngest player to do so at a ranking event" Might be worth stating how old he was at the time
  • Added. Not sure why we didn't previously. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:51, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• I'm not sure why the first sentence of the second paragraph isn't part of the first paragraph, as it deals with 1996 as seems to follow on?
  • Actually, that whole para should be merged, which I've done. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:51, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• Maybe wikilink to Wild card (sports)? Any idea why he was awarded the wildcard?
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:51, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "In 1997, he was disqualified from the British Open after testing positive for cannabis. He was later fined £4,550 and docked the 1,140 ranking points he earned at the event" Clarify if this was before or after he's played at the event. If after, state which round he got to to give context for the ranking points/fine.
  • So, it was the Grand Prix, but, I've added this Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:51, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "before defeating John Higgins" -> "before beating John Higgins" (to avoid repetition of "defeating"
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:14, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "At the end of the year, he was named the Snooker Writers Association's "young player of the year"" -> "At the end of 1998" (to avoid repetition of "year"). Also, you should say Young Player of the Year (no speech marks), as that is the name of the award.
  • Yeah, that's terrible wording. Replaced. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:14, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "ranking tournaments for the first time.[13] A position he retained for the 2000–01 season" -> "ranking tournaments for the first time,[13] a position he retained for the 2000–01 season"
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:14, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "the following season. He" -> "the following season: he"
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:14, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• No mention of him being runner-up at the 1995 English Amateur Championship?
  • I'll add to the previous section Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:14, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Masters champion (2001–2004)

• "won seven out of the next nine frames to win 10–9.[20] and earned the £175,000 first prize" -> "won seven out of the next nine frames to win 10–9 and earn the £175,000 first prize"
  •  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:37, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "After winning the championship, Hunter stated that he and his girlfriend had had sex between sessions when he was trailing 2-6 and that he felt this had caused him to play significantly better in the subsequent session"
• Do we need the direct quote about sex at the Masters given that you've paraphrased in the preceeding sentence?
  • No. Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:37, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "At the following year's event" I think it would be better to say "At the following year's Masters" as you're starting a new para
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:37, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "to reach the final, where he met Mark Williams in the final."
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:37, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "Hunter lost all of the first five frames of the final"
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:37, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "Hunter was only the third player to retain the Masters along with Cliff Thorburn and Stephen Hendry" -> "Hunter was only the third player to retain the Masters, following Cliff Thorburn and Stephen Hendry"
  • done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:37, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "Hunter also won his second ranking event, winning the 2002 Welsh Open, defeating Ken Doherty 9–2 in the final" -> "Hunter also won his second ranking event the same year, defeating Ken Doherty 9–2 in the final to take the 2002 Welsh Open title" Maybe mention this was his second vicotory at the Welsh Open?
  • Added Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:37, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "Hunter won his third ranking event, the British Open defeating" -> "Hunter won his third ranking event, the British Open, defeating"
  • fix Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:37, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "however he only could win one of the remaining nine frames, and lost the match 16–17" -> "however he only won one of the remaining nine frames, and lost 16–17"
  • done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:42, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "when the event was postponed" Obviously the article is about Paul Hunter, but I think you should add "due to the COVID-19 pandemic"
  • Indeed. I wasn't sure exactly. It does make sense to mention why. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:42, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "Hunter won the 2004 Masters for the third time in four years" -> "Hunter won the Masters for the third time in four years" (otherwise it makes it sound like he won the 2004 Masters three times)
  • Agreed! Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:42, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "Hunter trailed Ronnie O'Sullivan throughout the entire match trailing" -> "Hunter was behind Ronnie O'Sullivan throughout the entire match, trailing"
  • Changed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:42, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "Hunter also reached the final of the Players Championship, but lost 7–9 against Jimmy White" -> "The same year, Hunter reached the final of the Players Championship, but lost 7–9 against Jimmy White"
  • Changed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:42, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "despite leading at both 10–6 and 12–10" -> "despite leading 10–6 and 12–10 at various stages of the match"
  • fixed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:42, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "Hunter began the 2004–05 season, by reaching the semi-finals" -> "Hunter began the 2004–05 season by reaching the semi-finals"
  • done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:42, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• No mention of his Grand Prix Fürth victory?

Later years and illness (2005–2006)

• "Hunter had been receiving chemotherapy for his illness" This seems a little odd, in that you've just talked about him being diagnosed then say "had been". Change to "Hunter received chemotherapy for his illness
  • Good point Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:27, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "Despite this Hunter" -> "Despite this, Hunter"
  • fixed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:27, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "WPBSA" You should add "(WPBSA)" after the first time you mention the organisation, or use their full name here
  • I literally use it one other time in the article. Fixed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:27, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Death and legacy

• "Instead, then non-ranking" -> "Instead, the then non-ranking"
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:20, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "Hunter compiled 114 competitive century breaks in the course of his professional career, including a high break of 146." Move the first ref after the comma. Also, it seems slightly strange that you mention this here when you don't mention his tournament victories.
  • The tournament victories are already covered by the preceding sections, whilst overall statistics aren't. I suppose I could add the total of ranking event wins, etc. here but it's a bit overkill with sections dedicated to this. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:20, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Personal life

• "became known as the "Beckham of the Baize" named after football player David Beckham due to his looks" -> "became known as the "Beckham of the Baize", being named after football player David Beckham due to his looks" In the lead you say good looks AND flamboyant style
  • Fixed. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:20, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• "Hunter made comments that his first Masters win was due to having sex between sessions, which he referred to as "plan bonk"" Any reason to mention this again here?
  • Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:20, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

General

• You don't mention "The Man with the Golden Cue" nickname in the article, but it's in the infobox. Any source?

Looks like something the daily mail once called him. I've removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:38, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

• Source for career winnings in the infobox?
  • Hmm, I'm not really a fan of these things - not sure how reliable [1] or [2] is. BBC covered it before he died, but he added more to it after that was published. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:38, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• My usual concerns about some of the snooker sources, which I think WikipProject Snooker is already dealing with?
  • Discussions are ongoing. Anything in particular?
• You only cite Unbreakable: My Life with Paul once in the article? Is there nothing more to add from the book?
• Great image, appropriately licensed. The image has been copied from Russian wikipedia to Commons, but it doesn't have a CC licence on .ru, it's been uploaded as fair use. Will have to be deleted from Commons and a new picture found

I think we'll be out of luck on the image front. We could potentially do a fair use image, but I don't agree on this image in particular. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:38, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Placing on hold for now. As a snooker fan from Leeds, I'm happy to see that such a lot of hard work has gone into this article. Such a shame Hunter died so young. Cavie78 (talk) 11:35, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for such a detailed review. A lot of this is really good for updating, and should be easy to implement. I'm planning to take a look at this in the next couple days. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:57, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

I think I've covered the above Cavie78 - thanks for your in depth review! Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:47, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks @Lee Vilenski:, there are just got a couple of minor things left:

• If there's no source, remove the total winnings figure from the infobox?
  • Whoops, I thought I'd done that. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:06, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
• I'm still not clear what you mean by "among the professionals" Change to "as a professional" (assuming that is what you mean)
  • Indeed. Changed. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:06, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
• Any idea why Hunter was awarded a wildcard at the 97 Masters?
  • It's mostly due to his age, the other wildcard had to win the qualifying event, but I can't find anything specific about it (BennyOnTheLoose might have a deal on it.) Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}
    • Phil Yates in The Times said it was "largely on the basis of an appearance in the quarter-finals of the United Kingdom championship, where Hunter had led Hendry 5-3 but, faced with the prospect of claiming such a notable scalp, he froze and lost all six frames that were necessary during the concluding session" and adds that it was a similiar situation when Hunter played Williams at the Masters. Source:(|last=Yates |first=Phil |date-4 February 1997 |title=O'Sullivan holds nerve for victory - Snooker |work=The Times |location=London |page=49). The Independent said at the time that "he is widely regarded as the sport's leading teenager" (|author= |date-4 February 1997 |Snooker : Hunter never in hunt |work=The Independent |location=London ). Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:41, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
• Not a deal breaker, but my comment regarding the sentence about century breaks in the Death and legacy section was because it seems slightly strange you talk about breaks and the 146, which you've mentioned before, without his other achievements.
  • Well, the fact he's died, you can give a full amount (114 century breaks), which feels weird without mentioning what was the highest one. Happy to take it out if it is overkill. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:06, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
• Again, not a deal breaker, but it seems odd that you only cite My Life with Paul... once in the article. Is there nothing more to add?

Cavie78 (talk) 11:13, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

• • I would have used it more - but I don't have a copy! There's no online copy, but I feel the article is suitably WP:BROAD without buying a copy and citing to it. Would be an interesting read though, I'm sure.

• • I've covered the last few bits Cavie78 Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:06, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
    • All good - happy to promote! Congrats Cavie78 (talk) 20:25, 3 July 2020 (UTC)