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Russian harness edit
Russian harnesses often have a wooden arch over the horse's withers, with a bearing rein (?) passed through the top of the arch. Expand this article to include those. --Una Smith (talk) 18:41, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
the overcheck, then called a "bearing rein"? edit
But surely the bearing rein mentioned in, say, Black Beauty is not an overcheck but a side-check? Like so (left photo). Look at some of the pictures produced by anti-bearing rein societies in Britain in the late 19th century, and the reins they show aren't overchecks. 86.136.250.218 (talk) 18:27, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
- Further to which: as it stands, this article seems to me to be very US-oriented, and especially harness racing-oriented. In British English at least, you absolutely cannot assume that "bearing rein" and "overcheck" mean the same thing.86.136.250.218 (talk) 18:30, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
- It's probably worth noting the different forms, I'd like to see FEI definitions, but both have similar effects. Interestingly, that source claims the "black beauty" version is an overcheck. I suppose we must quote the novel itself. That said, the terms are pretty much used interchangably over here. But this article isn't harness-racing oriented at all, more horse show-oriented. It would be useful to discuss the terminology variations, though, horse stuff does have a lot of variations between US and UK terminology. Hmm. Worth adding
- I'm not happy with the name of the article. It acknowledges in several places that it's known as an overcheck today - whether we acknowledge that they're the same thing or not is irrelevant so long as you Wiki search "overcheck" and get redirected to "Bearing rein". I think the name of the article ought to be changed. Nimloth250 (talk) 14:09, 21 March 2012 (UTC)Nimloth250
- I don't have strong feelings either way. I think the article got started by someone who was into Black Beauty, and I expanded it to encompass the modern use. I would want to check with the folks who use UK English to see if "overcheck" is their modern term also. If you want to post at WP:EQUINE's talk page and suggest the move with a question as to what the most common worldwide term is, I'd be OK with that. Montanabw(talk) 21:03, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not happy with the name of the article. It acknowledges in several places that it's known as an overcheck today - whether we acknowledge that they're the same thing or not is irrelevant so long as you Wiki search "overcheck" and get redirected to "Bearing rein". I think the name of the article ought to be changed. Nimloth250 (talk) 14:09, 21 March 2012 (UTC)Nimloth250
- It's probably worth noting the different forms, I'd like to see FEI definitions, but both have similar effects. Interestingly, that source claims the "black beauty" version is an overcheck. I suppose we must quote the novel itself. That said, the terms are pretty much used interchangably over here. But this article isn't harness-racing oriented at all, more horse show-oriented. It would be useful to discuss the terminology variations, though, horse stuff does have a lot of variations between US and UK terminology. Hmm. Worth adding
Terminology not global edit
Clearly this article was written with only an American viewpoint and terminology. All OR and no sources, the writers seem to have the incorrect idea that English carriage harness terminology is old fashioned, out of style, 18th and 19th century terms, and no longer in use. Perhaps the insular thinking of Americans and the penchant for inventing new words explains this. I can assure you that the "old" terminology is completely in common usage today among sport carriage drivers. I added two comprehensive sources (one old, one contemporary) that can be used to cite in this article; both are available to search and read on openlibrary.org.
- Shaw, Vero (1909). The Encyclopædia of the Stable. George Routledge & Sons, Limited. OCLC 3806740. OL 23297448M.
- Walrond, Sallie (1979). The Encyclopaedia of Driving. Country Life Books. ISBN 0600331822. OL 4175648M.
I will likely revisit the article later and 'fix' it. This is not the first harness article I've come across with the derogatory wikivoice language about "obsolete" terminology that is still in common use. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 09:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
Riding training tools edit
The current comparisons to riding training equipment are unnecessary clutter in this article and are confusing to a reader who is trying to learn about overchecks and bearing reins and now has to figure out esoteric training tools just to understand what the article is supposed to be about. Bearing reins and overchecks are primarily parts of driving harness and that should be covered first. Later it can be discussed how this system may be used for riding horses (stop grazing). Last of all, perhaps, and maybe not even in this article, could be the comparisons to riding training systems (bitting rigs, gogues, side reins, chambons, and whatnots). The part about not using one on a dressage horse is probably the most obtuse tangent of the whole article. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 09:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)