Talk:Ottoman Crete

Crete Eyalet

This article should be renamed to what it was: Crete Eyalet. Like for almost all eyalets and vilayets there should be separate articles for vilayets and eyalets. The vilayet content should go back to Crete Vilayet.

The current designation in the infobox "province" is not consistent with the naming for the other vilayets and eyalets.

If there is need for having "Ottoman Crete" this can exist separately. The territorial divisions should have their own articles. GRprefectures-have-been-dissolved (talk) 01:27, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm ok with it as long as we do have an article about Crete under the Ottoman empire, and I agree that the term 'province' in this context is both too ambiguous and inconsistent. My only doubt is whether we can gather enough material for 2 separate articles, especially for the relatively short vilayet period.--LK 02:34, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

The eyalet and vilayet are simply the administrative structures under which Ottoman Crete was governed. Having one article for the period of 1699-1864 and another for 1864-1898 based simply on a change in the name of the province is a completely artificial division. On the ground, nothing changed. And its not like either the eyalet or the vilayet cover different territory, refer to any place apart from Crete, or only a part of Crete, or that the Crete eyalet/vilayet was any different from the other eyalets/vilayets of the Empire, so that dedicated articles are necessary just for the administrative structure itself. These topics can and hopefully shall be covered in the Ottoman Crete article, just as we are doing with every other historical or modern state and subdivision. Bear in mind that the article is in its beginnings, I hope to expand upon it over the next few weeks. Constantine ✍ 08:32, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

"Completely artificial" - at least the designation changed. Hawaii Territory and State of Hawaii have their own articles. The "bear in mind" claim that you want to expand the article - In the beginning you reduced the content from two articles to one, made less obvious the administrative change that came with the 1864 reforms. It can be well expanded separately with clear designation on top that one was an eyalet and one was a vilayet. Do it like that: Stuff from before ca. 1864 you put into the eyalet and stuff after 1864 you put to the vilayet. Ditadura Nacional/Estado Novo (Portugal) have their own articles. Department of Alaska/District of Alaska/Alaska Territory/State of Alaska have their own articles. The department existed for 17 years and the Crete Vilayet for double(!) that time, namely 34 years. This vilayet if part of a set of vilayets that were created around 1864. Please revert your article move and article merge and give Crete administrative changes the same value as for Alaska is given. Only because it is Ottoman is no reason to merge it. Ottoman history deserves the same presentation as U.S. history. GRprefectures-have-been-dissolved (talk) 08:54, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

I already replied at your talk page at length, but you choose to ignore that, it seems. The Hawaii Territory is a different entity than Hawaii State: the first is a dependency, the second a constituent part of the United States. For the Portuguese thing, it is up to Portuguese historiography to establish its own conventions, and we follow them. If they perceive the two eras to be sufficiently distinct to warrant different labels, that is their job. In Crete's case however, nothing changed except the title. Neither its extent, nor its political system, or its culture, ethnic composition, religions, or political status. To divide the island's history based on a change in its provincial title is hence artificial as it represents no actual change, no point of departure from one situation to another. Constantine ✍ 10:38, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

List of governors

Is there a list of governors for the Crete Eyalet anywhere? There is one in Turkish Wikipedia but no source is provided to support the list. I want to know if Ismail Pasha al-Azm (Azimzade İsmail Paşa) was a governor of the island in 1731-32 as the Turkish wp template says. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:50, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

There's the List of rulers of Crete. Most of the info was taken from worldstatesmen.org, which is generally, but not always, reliable. Cheers, Constantine ✍ 20:41, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the link, I got what I needed to sort out some conflicting information. This source [1] says Ismail died in 1730, which I found odd because the other sources I was using (Dick Douwes and Ahmad Hasan Joudah) said Ismail was dismissed from Damascus in 1730 and imprisoned, but then pardoned in 1731, so something didn't add up. Anyway, thanks again. --Al Ameer (talk) 21:59, 8 December 2015 (UTC)