Talk:Olé, Olé, Olé

Problems

1. There's nothing especially Irish about the use of this chant at football games; the citations show it's used in Ireland, but there are a dozen or more Youtube video links that could be added to show its use in many other places.

2. The source for its derivation ("Allah, Allah, Allah") is not a credible reference. It could be true, but a reliable citation is needed. MayerG (talk) 07:01, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

You are quiet right. Olé belongs to a whole group of onomatopoeic words of Indoeuropean origin. Fe.: early French: Hale!, Greek: Alala!, German: Halali! Hossa! Holla! Also latest spanish dictonaries don`t cite it as Arabic anymore. 62.178.137.216 (talk) 18:19, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

In fact almost surely is not of Arab origin (add to your list the Galician and ancient Portuguese chant "alalá"), see this: http://etimologias.dechile.net/?ole.- (in Spanish) 213.60.26.62 (talk) 16:48, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Anderlecht Champion

I don't think the article makes any justice to the origin of the "Olé, Olé, Olé" chant, which I doubt to be any Spanish or Argentine origin. It's true origin, according to many sources, is Belgian.

In 1985, Hans Kusters, the head of Hans Kusters Music (HKM), Belgium, asked Roland Verlooven (according to Discogs, also known by his alias Armath) and Lange Jojo (also known in French as Grand Jojo):

"to write a song for the Belgian soccer champs Anderlecht called “Anderlecht Champion”. Over the course of the years “Ole, Ole, Ole, We Are The Champions” (which is the title), received numerous Foreign Copyright Awards and became one of the biggest soccer anthems around."

(HKM)

Since then, HKM being the copyright holder for the chant, distributed to many labels around the world. It was also featured in the Irish movie The Van:

"Ole, Ole, Ole, Ole" Composed by Armath and J Deja By Kind Permission of Hans Kusters Music NV/Chelsea Music Publishing Company Limited"

(IMDb)

In 1987, a popular cover of the song, known as "Olé, Olé, Olé (The Name of the Game)" recorded by The Fans and released by HKM, became an immediate success among football fans (this case is similar to the popular Popcorn cover by Hot Butter to Gershon Kingsley's original).

As of the "Spanish" origin:

"A GREAT DAY FOR THE IRISH AS ITALY IS DEFEATED, 1-0". The Record (Bergen County, NJ). 1994-06-19. "Banging on bodhran drums, the Irish were on their feet -- an hour before game time. They chanted, "Ole, ole," their national soccer cheer, imported from Spain"

Very simple. The Fans' cover was also released in Spain by the Spanish label Discos Games (a sub-label of the Spanish Key Records International), hence the importation. In the same year, it was licensed for Zyx Records to release the cover in Germany.

That's it. I hope someone there could make an effort to include all this in the article. I would did that myself, but my English isn't quite enough to do so.

I also suggest to leave the article with the phrase information only, and the song information should be moved to its own article. ********** שבור (talk) 17:14, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Origin of the song

In an article of the Spanish newspaper La Vanguardia, the origin of the song is placed in San Sebastián in 1982. Look at the references of this page. Fmercury1980 (talk) 00:20, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, though I don't know any Spanish, I tried to check it out, and found this: http://embolica.blogspot.com/2009/04/campeones-oe-oe-oe.html

Anyway, I think we discussing 2 different chants. Judging by the lyrics "Campeones, Obe, Obe, Obe", it is seems to be something like this (which is the origin to the chant used in E-Type's "Campione 2000"), rather than "The name of the game, Olé, Olé, Olé" (Olé, Olé, Olé, Olé, We are the chamions X2), which its origin comes from Grand Jojo's "Anderlecht Champion" from 1985. ********** שבור (talk) 21:14, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

1)Had I not posted references about "Campeones, campeones", one could also say that this song was composed by E-Type and "imported" to Spain after the 2000 Europe Championship in the Netherlands.

2)"Oe, Oe, Oe" emerged in the Spanish football Stadiums as a variant of the song "Campeones, oe, oe, oe". The version by Grand Jojo was (and is) unknown in Spain. Anderlecht played against Real Madrid in Santiago Bernabéu stadium in the year 1984, so I suppose Anderlecht fans brought the song to Belgium.

3)The song was recorded not only by that Belgian disc-jockey, but also by groups like Chumbawamba (Top of the World (Ole, Ole, Ole)). In the credits of the later song, Chumbawamba appears as the only composer of the song, and they do not list "Grand Jojo" nor pay royalties to him, as it should be, if he were the author of the song. Fmercury1980 (talk) 22:40, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

1. I think you a little misunderstood. I said that "Campeones, Obe, Obe, Obe" CHANT, is the origin to the CHANT that E-Type used in his "Campione 2000" song. I didn't said he INVENTED the same CHANT, he just USED it.

2. We don't talk about the song itself, we talk about the CHANT, the same "Olé, Olé, Olé" CHANT. The CHANT used in Grand Jojo's "Anderlecht Champion" is not the same CHANT used in E-Type's "Campione 2000". You already gave the source for the CHANT used in E-Type's song, but the source for the CHANT used in Grand Jojo's "Anderlecht Champion" may come from the Belgian football fans, but later made into a song by Grand Jojo in 1985.

3. Of course it was recorded by many other artists, who said it wasn't? I said that THE FIRST who recorded it, was Grand Jojo, and the song itself (the companion to the CHANT) was composed by Armath (Roland Verloveen) and J. Deja. Of course many others can write any companions they want and use the same CHANT that was first used in Grand Jojo's song, it doesn't matter, what matters is who was the first to do so, and the credit goes to Grand Jojo.

Also, you forgot to check the credits found in back cover of "Top of the World (Olé, Olé, Olé) single by Chumbawamba: http://i41.tinypic.com/2n71vlu.jpg --- ""Olé, Olé, Olé" published by Chelsea Music"" --- and Chelsea Music got the permission to use the song from Hans Kusters Music, Belgium as stated by them here: http://www.chelseamusicpublishing.com/compilations.php --- "Ole Ole Ole Various Artists Hans Kusters Music Belgium"

Hans Kusters Music is the label holding the recording rights to the same "Olé, Olé, Olé" CHANT that was used first in Grand Jojo's "Anderlecht Champion" and was later covered by The Fans, and THIS was first released in 1987 in Spain by Discos Games (a Spanish label) and started the craze.

You also forgot this statement by the label I wrote at the top of my first arguement: "In 1985 Hans asked Roland Verlooven and Lange Jojo to write a song for the Belgian soccer champs Anderlecht called “Anderlecht Champion”. Over the course of the years “Ole, Ole, Ole, We Are The Champions” (which is the title), received numerous Foreign Copyright Awards and became one of the biggest soccer anthems around." (source as the link above is down)

Remember, we talk about 2 different CHANTS. ********** שבור (talk) 15:18, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Youtube videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2Wgxw2Fc7c&feature=related ("Campeones, campeones, oe, oe oe", Bilbao, Spain, 1983: look at the minutes 3:55, 4:20, 4:50)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYlOpKCLdFw (original "oé, oé, oé" song)

Pop versions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-ruMvvcLTw (The Fans)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elIZNwzCMyw (Chumbawamba)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frSSUW_ULdM (Invictus Film)

Spanish pop versions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbBmLR9Ajhw (Los Inhumanos)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkAh5r29MH0 (Ska-p, see 0:43)

The expresion "oe, oe" is used in many Spanish football chants:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBmuZ8YyUmY&feature=related ("A por ellos, oe")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht-j2tDJu4I

Fmercury1980 (talk) 22:55, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Credits for The Fans' cover: http://i43.tinypic.com/2rvya6p.jpg (Spanish release, Discos Games, 1987)

http://i44.tinypic.com/1zv52kz.jpg (German release, licensed for them by Discos Games)

http://i40.tinypic.com/xlkxu1.jpg (Japanese release, this is also the single for the Japanese own cover of the song performed by THE WAVES and released in 1992 along with The Fans' 1987 cover)

Credits for Chumbawamba's release: http://i41.tinypic.com/2n71vlu.jpg (as I already gave above)

Credits for Overtone's cover (as used in Invictus movie): http://i43.tinypic.com/xl9yxv.png (taken directly from the movie's end credits). ********** שבור (talk) 18:32, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Spanish press, November 1986

The user שבור says:

"Hans Kusters Music is the label holding the recording rights to the same "Olé, Olé, Olé" CHANT that was used first in Grand Jojo's "Anderlecht Champion" and was later covered by The Fans, and THIS was first released in 1987 in Spain by Discos Games (a Spanish label) and started the craze".

Well, let's have a look at the Spanish press of the year 1986:

November 13th 1986. Football match between Spain (1) and Romania (0). ABC newspaper chronicle:

http://hemeroteca.abcdesevilla.es/nav/Navigate.exe/hemeroteca/sevilla/abc.sevilla/1986/11/13/044.html

"Por allí empezaba y por allí acababa el sudado triunfo de la selección. Allí, minuto cincuenta y siete, casi una hora de toma y daca, entraban las tranquilidades en los cuerpos, se redoblaban los ánimos en las gargantas y el é, oé, oé, oé se mezclaba y se cruzaba con un España, España, España, que a uno le suena a gloria bendita".

BTW: the Belgian version is unknown in Spain, mostly because it is a Northern European ridiculous rendering of a Spanish traditional football chant.

Fmercury1980 (talk) 13:07, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

A little comparison between the Spanish-based chant and the Belgian-based chant

Dear Fmercury1980, you are a little misunderstood again, don't you? Well, let's make it a little clear this time, shall we?

We are talking about a completely two different chants from each other. You talking about the Spanish-based chant (a source to E-Type's Campione 2000) and I talking about the Belgian-based chant (a source to The Fans' The Name of the Game Olé, Olé, Olé). So let's make a little comparison between the two:

• All YOU have mention above was all about the source (the Spanish-based) to E-Type's Campione 2000, and HERE is how it sounds. This, according to La Vanguardia newspaper, was first used in that game from 1982.

• All I have mention above was all about the source (the Belgian-based) to The Fans' The Name of the Game Olé, Olé, Olé and HERE is how it sounds. This, according to Hans Kusters Music label, was first used in Grand Jojo's Anderlecht Champion from 1985.

As you already have gave a respectful source to the origin of the chant that was also used in E-Type's Campione 2000 (1), I have gave you a respectful source to the origin of the chant that was also used in The Fans' The Name of the Game Olé, Olé, Olé (2).

All I have trying to say from the very beginning, is that you was always referred to the Spanish-based chant (from 1982) and I was always referred to the Belgian-based chant (from 1985) and I hope we understand each other now =]

Now, I would like to fix my mistake from above. The Fans' cover (which was based on Grand Jojo's Anderlecht Champion) was released by Hans Kusters Music label in 1987 under the title The Name of the Game Olé, Olé, Olé, and was first (or among the first) distributed by the Spanish label Discos Games in Spain, which later gave a permission to other labels across Europe (among them was the German label ZYX Records) to distribute the same cover, while Hans Kusters Music label have holded the recording rights to that cover.

If the cover was a craze in Spain or not, I don't exactly know. All I knew since I started to argue about it here, is that this cover is based on Grand Jojo's Anderlecht Champion from 1985, and I was always referred to it.

For a final conclusion, the Belgian-based (Grand Jojo's Anderlecht Champion which was released in both French and Dutch, two of the three Belgian-speaking languages) chant was never released in Spain, but it was The Fans' cover which is based on it that actually WAS released there (and that was all in English BTW), and this is all about I tried to say all the time.

Have a nice watching the Mundial 2010!@# =] ********** שבור (talk) 16:02, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Article should be re-written

As discussed above, I still think the article should be re-written.

It should be noted that there are two variations of the chant. To make the things clear, we should include both of the samples (as given above), so people who read the article would know the difference between them.

The variations are:

• First variation - Basis for E-Type's "Campione 2000".
• Second variation - Basis for The Fans' "Olé, Olé, Olé (The Name of the Game)".

I may agree that both of the variations are probably originated in Spain. But, it should be also noted that the second variation, was recorded first by Grand Jojo in his "Anderlecht Champion" song from 1985. A year later, he recorded another version, "E Viva Mexico"[1], which was another basis to the more popular The Fans' version in 1987 (especially in the instrumental version on side B of the single[2]).

Bouncing Souls' version was recorded years later, and released only in 1999. It is another example of a version using the second variation of the chant, giving the credit to Armath and Deja. The same thing with Chumbawamba's version.

As I stated above, Armath (according to Discogs) is an alias of Roland Verlooven (who produced both Grand Jojo's "Anderlecht Champion" and The Fans' "Olé, Olé, Olé (The Name of the Game)"). As for Deja, I don't know.

So, is anybody deliver this article from its suffering? --שבור (talk) 15:56, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I did the best I could (for now). Hope that the article in its current shape will be open for a detailed information to come. --שבור (talk) 16:24, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Spanish origin

I asked for a source about the Spanish origin of the chant, but my tag has been deleted for no apparent reason. Anyway, it's obvious to me that, if the chant is indeed of Spanish origin, it must derive from the well-known chant heard in Spanish stadiums before the pandemia: oé, oé, oé, oé (4 times, not 3), a chant that was probably misheard by foreigners by mental association with the cliché word olé (a misspelling by the way: it's really ole). Of course finding sources, let alone serious sources, for all this is difficult, so I'm leaving this message here just to inform any person not savvy about Spain. --Jotamar (talk) 15:55, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

It has been rewritten, so the tag is irrelevant. There is no evidence that the popular "Olé, Olé, Olé" chant is based on the Spanish "Oé, Oé, Oé" one (if someone has the evidence, please do give them here), and the chant with the source (i.e. "Campeones, Oé, Oé, Oé") is different from the popular "Olé, Olé, Olé" version used around the world. The original Belgian version of the popular chant has "Allez, Allez, Allez, Allez" as the lyrics, only changed for the World Cup to "Olé, Olé, Olé, Olé", so it was hardly the result of "oé" being misheard. Hzh (talk) 15:08, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

I had forgotten about the "Campeones, Campeones, Oé, Oé, Oé" chant. The one I was referring to is different, but you seem convinced for some reason that a football chant in Spain is completely unrelated to a similar football chant elsewhere, while at the same time there is no doubt for you that the chant is related to a Spanish exclamation that is used in a very different way. Ole is shouted in isolation, not in series, to punctuate one single action by someone in a spectacle (bullfighter, dancer, etc.), its stress is on the first syllable (the misspelling olé is most probably inherited from the first French writers that described it), and it's not used in Spanish football, unless you want to be very disrespectful to the rival players. And for that you have just the opinion of a non-Spanish journalist who doesn't explain where he got his information. I find all that puzzling. --Jotamar (talk) 00:13, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

If you have a source, then provide it, otherwise it is hard to argue since it is not possible to state personal opinion as fact in article. I am not particularly convinced about anything, we can only follow what the sources says - the source says a version were first sung in 1982, and the version mentioned by Spanish press in 1982 was a variation of the "Campeones, Campeones, Oé, Oé, Oé" chant. If you have evidence for the "Olé, Olé, Olé" chant (if sung as "Oé, Oé, Oé, Oé") being sung in Spain in 1982 or any time before the Belgian one, then do provide it. The sources on the composition of the internationally popular Belgian version don't mention any Spanish version, so we can't assume that it is based on any Spanish one. In the absence of a source that says otherwise, we can only assume that it is an original composition, and perhaps the Spanish one may be based on the Belgian one. As for the single Olé exclamation, it is often shouted in sports in appreciation for a series of moves, so it does come in a series even if not in quick succession, but you are welcome to adjust the wording if you want, or add the information that it may be a misspelling by French writers (with sources of course). It would be useful for any future article on "Olé". I have also put a citation needed tag for the stress on pronouncing the word, you are free to add a citation there. Hzh (talk) 10:43, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Separate article for Olé?

Seems like there should be a different article for Olé (maybe as Olé (exclamation)) which is used in bullfighting and flamenco dance. Articles linked to this in different languages are a mix of the song and chant "Olé, Olé, Olé" and "Olé", which is not ideal since they are different subjects. Hzh (talk) 11:12, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

I have now split off the etymology for olé into is own article Olé. Any addition for etymology should go into that article and not this. Hzh (talk) 13:50, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Excessive content on a single view point on etymology

@M7md AAAA Please don't add excessive content on a single point of view. Much of it is speculation and is of only marginal value, and adding so much distort the content of the article, and is WP:UNDUE. Wikipedia is not the place for anyone to promote any viewpoint. Hzh (talk) 19:56, 28 February 2021 (UTC)]

@Hzh Everything cited.

This is not relevant, it is excessive promotion of a viewpoint. This view is in fact an old one, and it should not be given such prominence over the more recent view by an Arabist scholar. Hzh (talk) 20:20, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

@Hzh that is your assertion you can request arbitration.

Discussion is not about asking other people for arbitration (it can come later if there is no resolution after a discussion). You need to state your reason for such prominence given to a theory over the opinion of a reputable Arabist. Hzh (talk) 15:15, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Date inconsistencies

The origin stories say mid (or early) 1980s, yet the other sports section starts by stating an association with a hockey team in the 1970s. The song only started to get used by fans of that hockey team in the 1990s (or even later), way after its popularity in football grew. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.101.79.226 (talk) 08:12, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

People just add random things unsupported by sources, I would just remove the 1970s date because it does not make sense. Hzh (talk) 11:16, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Can’t be correct. Correct?

This seems way off from reality. PLEASE verify the truth. 2603:6081:1740:34F9:6096:C84A:49AA:5C38 (talk) 07:53, 15 January 2022 (UTC)