Talk:Ọbatala

Title

I moved this page back from Ọbàtálá (leaving a redirect) because Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) dictates using the name as it is mostly commonly used by English-speakers. It does, however, allow the use of more accurate names in the text of the article, so I have added the marks into the body. Tuf-Kat 05:05, Mar 25, 2004 (UTC)

Do you realize that Yoruba's tonality makes it nearly impossible to understand what one is referring to without those tonal markers? Yoruba is like Chinese in that many words can have exactly the same spelling under the common English orthography, so your moving the article actually creates needless ambiguity. --User:Abiola Lapite (Talk) 12:22, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Ọbatala is the word used by most English-speakers, who do not need tonal markings to understand the meaning of the word, and for whom the tonal markings would not prevent any ambiguity anyway because few know what they mean. If the word Ọbatala has other encyclopedic English-language meanings, then disambiguation is necessary -- the tonal markings may or may not be the best way to do so, probably not, IMO, because their meaning is obscure to most of en Wikipedia's readers, though I'm sure they would be required in the nascent Yoruba Wikipedia. Tuf-Kat 20:55, Mar 25, 2004 (UTC)

Paths

I have taken the liberty of adding several of the paths of Ọbatala. When I can look up more paths I will add them along with brief descriptions of each path.

Mythology vs Religion

Is the phrase "Yoruba Mythology" correct when describing an extant religion? I nearly altered this article to read "Yoruba Religion" but decided this would be better. Daniel Hawthorn 10:15, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Followed the link, which leads to Yoruba Religion. Altering the main article here accordingly. Daniel Hawthorn 10:17, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Just like YOUR religion is NOT a myth..so is the same with the Yoruba RELIGION. 2600:4041:5D2E:7000:1D6E:6E0B:5BD1:31D6 (talk) 19:23, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Trivia/note

Obatal (apparently Cuban spelling) is apparently Fidel Castro's pledged saint. It would seem that this might be an important tidbit to add. 128.2.101.22 (talk) 21:50, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Religious belief as fact violates NPOV

I’ve noticed that much of this (and some other Orishas’ articles) seems to be written from the POV that Obatala exists as a matter of fact. Not to disrespect any believers, but this violates WP:NPOV. I hope to try and address this, but in the meantime I’ve added a message box to the top of the page. —174.141.182.82 (talk) 08:39, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Agreed: this is written "in-universe" style. The tag was removed without justification, so I'm replacing it. 2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26 (talk) 21:58, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

Proclaiming the religion to be fictional (non-factual) is also a non-neutral point of view. The "in-universe" tag is non-neutral in a way that, besides being potentially offensive, is inconsistent with Wikipedia guidelines for this reason. It is also factually incorrect on the grounds that the religious beliefs are a proposed description of the nature of (and events within) this universe, not a fictional alternate universe. Cruxador (talk) 21:01, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

I see where each of you is coming from here. Personally, though, I would recommend that whatever the policy is regarding Jesus of Nazareth, it be applied here as well. Generally speaking, it now appears as though there was a historical Jesus, just as there also appears to have been a historical Obatala, and both of their more fantastical qualities as divinities need to be clearly separated from the accounts of their mortal incarnations. To this end, I've taken the liberty of dividing the African sub-article into "primordial" and "mortal" sections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.112.26.52 (talk) 00:19, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

The introduction of the Ọbatala page is filled with nonsense as if someone deliberately messed it up.

"Obatala (known as Obatalá in Latin America or Koya in Brazil) is an Allah." He is known as Oshala or Oxala in Brazil not Koya (See Pierre Verger "Dieux d'Afrique") He is not an "Allah" (What the hell is this reference to the muslim name of god) but an Orisha, a spiritual entity, intermediary in between the yoruba supreme god Olodumare and humans.

"He is believed to be the Sky Father and the creator of Heaven and Earth which thats it see Virginia Dynasty consort to electricity through the blood of jesus that was summoned out of Area 51 he turned himself White in Gad in the Middle East in 475483858" Complete nonsense !

"Black Obatala on Earth and is the shaper of human beings and can changed into a White english .[1]" Another complete nonsense !

"According to the oral traditions of life Confucius consort served as king during its classical period. His throne was lost to the lineage of his rival during world war ||. at some point during the 12th century B.C." Utterly absurd ! What has confucianism to do with Yoruba traditions ?

"Following Confuciasism posthumous deification, he was admitted to the Yoruba pantheon as an aspect of the primordial divinity of the same name." More of the same absurd nonsense ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.11.70.223 (talk) 13:39, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: HUM 202 - Introduction to Mythology

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 August 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Chrysosli (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Berserkz (talk) 00:49, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

The Introduction

When I read the opening section of this Wikipedia article, I felt like it was a little bit over the place. So I tried to tided it up into a more cut and dry introduction for Obatala.

I also realize I messed up and didn't cite my sandbox to my first edits. I do apologize for that. Chrysosli (talk) 04:47, 6 December 2022 (UTC)