Talk:Noragyugh, Nagorno-Karabakh
Latest comment: 15 years ago by Dekimasu in topic Requested move
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Requested move
edit- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the proposal was no consensus to move Noragyukh (Nagorno-Karabakh) to Təzəbinə, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 10:07, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
per GEOnet and Nagorno-Karabakh's de jure status, the requested name is on the title blacklist so far. --brandспойт 09:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- If it is moved, it should be moved to it's English name of Tazabina (since this is the English Wikipedia). TJ Spyke 16:52, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- I don't mind, but as in the related policy, if there is no common English spelling, the native one should be used. brandспойт 07:30, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose (for now anyway). There is not enough basis for a move here. Wikipedia is not beholden to USA military usage (we have Stepanakert, not Xankəndi, Karakend not Qarakənd, and Shusha, not Şuşa). And what "blacklist"? — AjaxSmack 03:13, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose "ə" is not an English letter, is not an accented non-English variant of an English letter (unlike say "ñ"), is not a former English letter (unlike say "Þ"), is not a Latin letter, is not ASCII, cannot be typed on an English language keyboard (unlike say "!"), is not a glyph familiar to monoglot anglophones (unlike say Greek letters), is not a Latin-1 character. 70.29.208.129 (talk) 03:49, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
- Comment. See this guideline: "Wikipedia has no rule that titles must be written in certain characters, or that certain characters may not be used". Jafeluv (talk) 14:21, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
- Comment when I see Arabic locations written in proper Arabic, Japanese locations written in proper Japanese, I will reconsider, until then, that guideline is just a way to promote systematic bias against non-Latin-based character sets. 70.29.208.129 (talk) 03:57, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
- Comment. I will be the first one to support an article name written in Arabic if it can be shown that it's written like that in English language common usage. I don't think the "systematic bias" comes from Wikipedia, but rather from the fact that English speakers are most familiar with Latin characters. We do have article names with non-Latin characters, though: see, for example, Снова в СССР. Jafeluv (talk) 06:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
- Comment monoglot anglophones are not familiar with a raft-load of characters that are used on Wikipedia titles like the eszett, this "ə", the thorn, etc. It still seems like systematic bias, against monoglot anglophones, and for Latin-based character sets. 70.29.208.129 (talk) 12:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
- That's why we have a Simple English Wikipedia so that people who aren't familiar with things have a safe place to go and not have to see umlauts, thorns, schwas, and other things that may shock them. We have substantial precedent, and a geographic naming guideline that where there is no common English name, then the local one be used. For most non-Latin alphabet using regions, there are long established English usages for most places; this got more confusing when the nation in question introduces its own Latinization, which is usually adopted: whether that be Turkey, where English use migrated to Istanbul from Stamboul, or China where we use Beijing not Peking, etc. Azerbaijan's adoption of Latin script in no way differs. If you can show that Tazabina is the common English name for the place, then it certainly doesn't belong at Noragyukh in any event. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 20:47, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
- Simple Wikipedia is not for articles not using non-English characters in their titles, it's for simiplified English, so that people unfamiliar with the language can still read the articles, etc. A monoglot anglophone is not necessarily a simpleton, though some are. And there are common ways to render various non-English latin-derived (or non-latin in latin-derived alphabets) glyphs into English. The umlaut "ö" becomes "oe" for instance, ligatures become detached "æ" becomes "ae", eszett becomes "ss", etc. 70.29.208.129 (talk) 04:29, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
- That's why we have a Simple English Wikipedia so that people who aren't familiar with things have a safe place to go and not have to see umlauts, thorns, schwas, and other things that may shock them. We have substantial precedent, and a geographic naming guideline that where there is no common English name, then the local one be used. For most non-Latin alphabet using regions, there are long established English usages for most places; this got more confusing when the nation in question introduces its own Latinization, which is usually adopted: whether that be Turkey, where English use migrated to Istanbul from Stamboul, or China where we use Beijing not Peking, etc. Azerbaijan's adoption of Latin script in no way differs. If you can show that Tazabina is the common English name for the place, then it certainly doesn't belong at Noragyukh in any event. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 20:47, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
- Comment monoglot anglophones are not familiar with a raft-load of characters that are used on Wikipedia titles like the eszett, this "ə", the thorn, etc. It still seems like systematic bias, against monoglot anglophones, and for Latin-based character sets. 70.29.208.129 (talk) 12:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
- Comment. I will be the first one to support an article name written in Arabic if it can be shown that it's written like that in English language common usage. I don't think the "systematic bias" comes from Wikipedia, but rather from the fact that English speakers are most familiar with Latin characters. We do have article names with non-Latin characters, though: see, for example, Снова в СССР. Jafeluv (talk) 06:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
- Comment when I see Arabic locations written in proper Arabic, Japanese locations written in proper Japanese, I will reconsider, until then, that guideline is just a way to promote systematic bias against non-Latin-based character sets. 70.29.208.129 (talk) 03:57, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
- Comment. See this guideline: "Wikipedia has no rule that titles must be written in certain characters, or that certain characters may not be used". Jafeluv (talk) 14:21, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose. Wikipedia bases its article names on common usage, not de jure status. Jafeluv (talk) 14:21, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose until more evidence. Geonet normally considers the systematic transliteration of the local name, not English usage. See remarks on Geonet at WP:NCGN. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:31, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
- Oppose per Ajax. Gazifikator (talk) 13:40, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
- Comment. Google gives roughly 115 hits for Tazabina and roughly 101 for Noragyukh. Tazabina is used by geographical databases Fallingrain.com and Tageo.com. I think there is no sense of using the Armenian toponyms in the territory within the internationally recognized Azerbaijani borders (compare the associated Template:Khojali Rayon in particular). brandспойт 20:33, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.