Talk:Niki Sanders/Archive 1

Indestructible?

According to newtonian physics every action has an equal and opposite reaction, so if Jessica can snap out of cuffs strong enough to hold an elephant the force on her writs must be huge! yet she was unharmed.

Would that be origonal resarch or should it be added?

Power?

Just to clarify, as of Episode 4, nothing concrete is known about Niki's powers and we should maintain a unknown listing for them until otherwise referenced, correct? --DJ Chair 19:38, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to say we still don't have enough information to go on, but the recent episode has offered some explanation. There's still no spec in the article, either. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 22:22, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

niki's powers

• Though the article on Niki says her powers are similar to that of the Hulk, I feel that they are even more similar to that of Jean Grey's Dark Phoenix in the X-Men comics. Bruce Banner understands fully his darker side as the Hulk (and is able to control it by using his powers for good) whereas both Niki and Jean Grey seem to have no control over their darker sides. 69.119.252.174 19:31, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

To be honest, both are pure speculation and I'm going to make the rounds to remove any mention of her power compared to another better-known hero (super or anti.) From the wikipedia community's view, her power is listed as unknown and must stay that way until something more concrete then interpretation can be presented. --DJ Chair 19:36, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree, she SEEMS to be somewhat like She-Hulk, but as of right now, it is just unknown for sure. as Ace would say, SPECULATION BAD! Rihk 03:50, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Do I really seem like that? Hmm. Perhaps I've become a policy thumper. Ah well. I changed the link from "Hulk (comics)" to "She-Hulk", but I'm fine leaving it uncompared. Even Hyde can be somewhat hulk-like—The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (film), anyone?—or at least very dufferent from Jekyll in certain versions. Niki's only confirmed to have a split personality, with Tim Kring officially stating that they're leaving it a bit open-ended. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 07:31, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not super well-versed in Hulk/She-Hulk mythology, but wasn't one of the surprises of She-Hulk, that she couldn't change back to her normal pink-n-squishy form, and on top of that, she maintained her intelligence? If anything (and I'd hate to admit it because I don't like to comparison) I'd say that Niki best mimics the Incredible Hulk in terms of power. Her blacking out, inability to control herself, and supposed super-strength would all fall under Hulk. --DJ Chair 03:50, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Have we seen her exhibit super-strength? We've seen her beat up a thug in an elevator, and we've seen the after effects of what happened when two other thugs tried to force her in her garage. For all we know, she could just be extremely quick and agile, like Pietro Maximoff, instead of super-strong like Bruce Banner. Until the show goes more in depth, we just don't know. Rihk 00:36, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

There's no speculation about this. "Dark Niki" is a dopplegänger, like Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde. But I don't think it is a "superpower", it's really a curse. And I think, and this IS speculation, that she is really another supervillain. She doesn't seem a hero at all. --KesheR 23:10, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

A doppelgänger is a physical double of a living person. As Ralph Dibny said: Try again, try again.. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 23:29, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Hyde is a classic dopplegänger and he shares his body with Jeckyll. Anyway, Niki is listed as one of them here.

If Mr. Hyde and Niki Sanders are listed as doppelgängers, they are listed mostly erroneously. They are, according to the wiki definition of doppelgänger, NOT doppelgängers. in Nikis case, there is no physical double. If you count seeing her alternate personality in reflections (where no one else has seen her double yet) as a ghostly double, then i will grudgingly admit that her alternate personality is a ghostly doppelgänger sharing the same physical body. in Mr. Hyde's case, the physical body transforms. Niki does not undergo any physical change during the personality switch. I strongly suggest she not be classified as a doppelgänger until there is an actual physical body doubling, or until her alternate personality manifests in reflections as such that other people can see her. Rihk 144.15.255.227 02:20, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, now we've seen her double sitting next to her. It seems that her double can manifest itself within her, within her reflection, or as a separate person at will, although it has only shown super-strength when it is possessing her. 24.148.0.227 03:29, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Until another character actually sees the two of them together, we can't assume that Niki can split into two separate physical entities. What we saw in "Better Halves" may simply be a filmic interpretation of her having an internal conversation with a split personality, such as how Gollum was depicted in "Lord of the Rings." Primogen 21:12, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Nathan said that she brought out the true man in him, I think that maybe her power is to bring out the true person in someone. In the future, she may use it on the team and that was why Hiro looked so cool in Hiros, because that was his true essensce, but she can't control it yet.— Preceding unsigned comment added by BioYu-Gi! (talk • contribs) 21:27, October 26, 2006

By sleeping with him? >.> First off, I'm positive you're misinterpreting her words. (a lot of that going around, I guess) Second, seriously, by SLEEEPING with him? That would devastate Ando. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 21:41, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, a little more will be revealed in the next episode. If I'm not mistaken, doesn't the preview show Niki, or at least her other personality, hitting a guy with enough force to lift him completely off the ground and send him flying across the room? The force necessary to do that would demonstrate some level of superhuman strength. They might incorporate some of the actual science behind Dissociative Personality Disorder into Niki's character, but most of it will be science fiction. One aspect that I think holds at least some water, scientifically, is that Niki "goes away" whenever she's in certain types of situations. In her case, if she's in a situation that she herself can't handle or something needs to be done that she can't do, her other personality takes over the host consciousness and takes care of business. Afterward, Niki "wakes up" with no memory of what's happened or really even how much time has gone by since she blacked out. It's all still speculation at this point, I doubt that all of the facts surrounding her situation will be revealed anytime soon. Odin's Beard 23:59, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

The trouble here is that nothing that Jessica's been shown to do on TV, up to and including "Six Months Ago", is necessarily superhuman when you consider the typical degree of realism in TV and film. There are plenty of shows where people's strength and/or endurance is unrealistically exaggerated without any claim to superhuman powers. The only thing that shows clearly superhuman strength is the webcomic, with the safe door. Really that would also suggest superhuman durability, because she did it without injuring herself -- in contrast with Claire, who snaps in half at the drop of a hat. "Six Months Ago" seems to push the idea that Niki suffers from MPD. If I hadn't just read about the webcomic I'd wonder if they were trying to suggest that she had no powers at all, and was just mentally disturbed. --ToobMug 23:50, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

In "Better Halves" Jessica explicity tells Niki that she killed the thugs in the garage and the people at the poker game. Those people were literally ripped apart. I don't think they'll show the actual ripping on television because of the censors. I think Jessica's confession will have to do as proof. --Stabbey 23:58, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

But because it's not shown how they were killed, or clearly shown what condition they were left in, it's not actually clear that no ripping-apart tools were used. The confession wasn't that she ripped anybody apart using superhuman strength, only that she killed them. I think that the most compelling argument for assuming that she has superhuman strength isn't that it's been demonstrated in anyway. It's that it's been alluded to, and to invoke a plot twist that showed that she didn't would raise questions of realism that would otherwise have been happily overlooked if we had been told up front that she was just a serious bad-ass. --ToobMug 03:28, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, to clarify, Niki asked Jessica about the ripping, point-blank. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 04:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

But she didn't get an admission, only confirmation that they were ripped apart. --ToobMug 01:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I think she may be able to channel spirits an exibit their supernatural power in the physical plane. that would explain why Jessica could come through, even though she is dead. James Castle 01:20, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, that's utter speculation, and not very original. If something is confirmed, we'll write it up in the article. Otherwise, it's probably best we not waste time discussing old, unproven theories. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 01:53, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

She has dissociative identity disorder. How is that a "superpower"? Many people in the real world have what she has and we do not consider them superbeings.Mdriver1981 03:46, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The superpower is her other identity's super-strength, which she seems to have recently acquired when Jessica was not the dominant personality. Also, it's quite possible, given that this is a science fiction series, that Niki does not have multiple personality disorder, just multiple personalities, i.e. that Niki somehow "absorbed" Jessica's personality when she died rather than Niki's brain just pretending that that is the case. --ΨΦorg 05:16, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

For me Niki is like Gray Hulk. She-Hulk doesn't have an alter-ego. Gray Hulk is "hedonistic, cunning, arrogant, crafty, and distant with a hidden conscience" like Jessica. Although sometimes she is like Dark Phoenix -- Akuma88 20:07, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Mirror Niki: Evil or Good

I'd like to point out that Mirror Niki, while seeming to be evil, could actually be good. She seems to care about Niki and her son, and the only people she seems to harm are linked to Mr. Linderman. Mirror Niki could also be aware of other people's powers, for example, killing the guys who were playing poker with Hiro and Ando in Episode 6. She may have realized Hiro and Ando were in danger (One of the men had a gun pointed at Ando under the table), which would explain why, for apparently no reason, she got out of bed in the middle of the night and killed them. This theory could also point her husband out as someone linked with Mr. Linderman. (Also, with this, I'd like to ask that we don't refer to the other Niki as "Dark Niki" or what have you, because, while she has a ruder personality, its still unknown past speculation whether she is evil or not. This is, unless some form of official Heroes thing calls her Dark Niki, in which case, nevermind.) 207.216.27.61 06:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

As of last night, it was established that Niki killed those men in the poker game not because she was helping Hiro and Ando, but because she was removing witnesses of her theft from Linderman for which her husband was framed. --Kmsiever 16:58, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Dark Niki has been named Jessica by the writers of the show. It's found here. --68.38.254.119 21:42, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Niki's strength

Niki's superpower description should say she has an alter ego with super human strength. Niki knocked DL across the room with one hit and ripped apart those guys at the poker game in seconds. I thought that last episode made it clear she was stronger than a normal human, besides fewer limitations and inhibitions is what you get from drinking beer.Lobot72 09:02, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I posit this. She could simply have super strength, and concurrently suffer from Dissociate Personality Disorder. Nothing in the Superhero Manual says that simply because you are a mutant or from Krypton, you are automatically immune from pyschological illness. And, what little I do know about mental illness, is that times of great stress tend to excaberate the symptoms. From her watching of the video, she knows that her *body* is capable of super strength, yet her mind may be damaged enough to not tap into it properly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.105.170.254 (talk • contribs) 12:38, 31 October 2006

Good points, guys. I'll see to it this info is spread around. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 20:33, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, in the 6th online graphic novella, "Jessica" is shown to be ripping a safe door clean off the safe by the hinges. That seems to present a good argument for super strength. Rihk 00:56, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I have added this as a confirmation for her superstrength, since those webcomics are official. You certanly want superstrength if you are planning to open a safe with your hands. :D --KesheR 22:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

If we are going to list on the main page that she has Superhuman strength and split personality, split personality should be called Dissociative Identity Disorder, so that it would also link to the article on that. I realize that in fiction, the concept of split personalities is handled differently than it occurs in the real world, but the DSM IV changed the diagnosis of the symptoms that Niki's demonstrates by calling the illness Dissociative Identity disorder. Of particular note is this quote from the wikipedia page on Dissociative Identity Disorder " In North America the name was changed to dissociative identity disorder due to the degree of controversy in the psychiatric and psychological communities there regarding the concept of one (physical) individual having more than one personality, where personality may be defined as the sum total of that (physical) individual's mental states." And all of this hinges on whether or not her strength is tied to having this mental identity problem or not. I also find it very compelling that this condition is linked to maternal unavailability early in life, and if one extrapolates on clair being adopted and generalizes that perhaps other hero's, Niki included, were taken from their real parents, that could have helped create the early childhood conditions to help trigger this in Niki. (please don't take this as idle discussion, I simply am trying to help clean up the description of Niki to something that jives with real Psychological illness's)— Preceding unsigned comment added by Encyclodoc (talk • contribs) 01:38, November 1, 2006

Okay....Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 01:49, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I would like to reaffirm that there is no evidence that she needs to be Jessica to gain superhuman strength. As 24.105.170.254 said, she may just not realize how to tap into that strength as Niki. Member Name 22:13, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I think that she does have super strength. In the graphic novel, it was easy for her to rip off the vault door. When she hit D.L. with the case of money, he went flying across the room. He also went flying when Jessica kicked him in the stomach in "Fallout". Micah went pretty far when she pushed him into the rocks, also. If she had normal strength, he would have fell to the ground, not rocks, which were like 3-4 feet away. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SpySkater (talk • contribs) 05:33, 14 December 2006 (UTC).

Character pages format

Okay, that other guy was saying the episodes' pages require cleanup because the plot descriptions are too long, anyone else bothered about how the character pages currently are? They're basically a detailed breakdown of everything that ever happened to the character, episode by episode.

Wouldn't it be better to condense things a little? Sometimes a character is involved in a storyline that spans 3 episodes, but said storyline could be summarized in a single paragraph.

I've seen other wikipedia pages about characters, and they're mostly about describing the character, instead of writing a detailed synopsis of all scenes he or she participated in. Surely, the storylines the character was in is an important part, but is not the only one, and maybe it shouldn't be so extensive? Renenarciso 01:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I raised the same issue in Talk:Hiro Nakamura. We're only six episodes into the series, and already these character bios are getting too long, describing every little thing a character does in each episode. Yes, all the character articles need to be revised so they aren't so detailed and have more interesting sentence structure than "In episode three, Niki does this, and then does that, and then does the other thing." However, these articles are going to be in a constant state of revision as we learn more about the character and their arcs, and what is important and what is not. Primogen 01:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I rewrote Niki's bio, making it shorter and also changing the style, so that it reads less like a blow-by-blow retelling of the scenes she was in. This is just a rough sketch though. I want to know what you guys think of rewriting all the character pages to make them look more like this.

Niki Sanders is introduced in the pilot episode of Heroes and has been a main character of the series to date. She has to struggle to raise her young son Micah alone, performing as a internet stripper to help pay the bills, after her husband, small-time criminal D. L. Hawkins is imprisoned, accused of stealing two million dollars from a sports book and murdering his own gang. To help pay Micah’s tuition, Niki is forced to borrow money from a Mr. Linderman, a shady figure to whom her husband used to work for.

In times of stress, Niki starts to see her reflection in mirrors or other reflective surfaces moving differently than herself, leading Niki to believe she is going mad. When Linderman sends two thugs to her house to collect the money she owes him, an altercation occurs, with Niki apparently blacking out after being hit by one of the thugs. When Niki recovers consciousness some time later, she is shocked to find the dead, bloody bodies of the two thugs. Niki has no recollection of what has happened. She looks into the mirror to see her reflection covered in blood although she is not.

Niki would have other blackout spells the following days, one time losing four hours, always with no recollection of what has transpired. It’s eventually revealed that Niki possesses a secondary personality, far more sinister and amoral than her usual self, and gifted with superhuman strength and savagery, that surfaces in times of extreme tension.

Niki finally repays her debt to Linderman when she is forced to seduce and sleep with congressional candidate Nathan Petrelli, producing blackmail material Linderman can use against Petrelli later.

In the episode Better Halves, mainly centered on Niki’s character, she is finally reunited with her husband D. L. Hawkins. D. L. escaped prison to return home and clear his name, mantaining he was framed. Surprisingly, it’s eventually revealed that it was Niki herself, dominated by her darker alter ego, that stole the two millions, killed D. L.’s crew, and framed him, planning to use the money to give her son a better life and paranoically believing her husband would eventually take Micah away.

After a short but violent fight, when D. L. reveals his own superhuman phasing powers he used to escape prison, Niki is defeated and lays unmoving in the floor while D. L. takes Micah away. Renenarciso 16:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

That looks pretty good, though I'd suggest getting rid of "Surprisingly", or perhaps change it to say that Niki is surprised. Also, you may want to take another pass for spelling and grammar, though you could leave that to other editors. --Psiphiorg 18:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Why don't you have the honor of putting it in the article, Renenarciso, and then allow other editors to refine it? Primogen 19:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll do that. English isn't my first language, so I'll let you guys edit it. I was also pondering whether we should note somewhere her relationships with Ando and Texas Tina. They don't seem essential to her character so far, but you never know. Well, I suppose we can always add stuff later when the next episodes prove they were, in fact, essential. Renenarciso 19:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Nice editing, Primogen! The bio is really looking fine now. Now we have only 10 more protagonists to go. I feel tired just thinking about it. I'll work on Peter Petrelli's bio later. Renenarciso 20:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Rising stars

Does anyone else think this character bears a striking resemblance to Stephanie "Critical" Maas of Rising Stars? And if so, does anyone think that merits a mention? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.105.43.186 (talk • contribs) 19:32, November 5, 2006

Critical seems more like a Superwoman parody/homage from her description on that article, so I'd say "no" on both counts. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 22:13, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand. I'm sorry, was there a Superwoman with multiple personality disorder?

Funny. I see the split personality resemblance from her article description, but Critical has a much greater variety of powers than Niki does. In any case, I'd say "no" too, for two reasons. First, I don't think we know enough about Niki's mental state or powers yet to make comparisons. Second, we could probably find many similarities between various Heroes characters and other characters in the comics universe, so such similarities aren't all that noteworthy, unless they were proven to be intentional. Primogen 19:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Firstly, Critical's powers should probably be taken in context. Powers in Rising Stars were gained in a Highlander-esque fashion, meaning that once someone died, everyone else gained his or her powers. Meaning anyone surviving past issue 8 had super-strength, flight etc. She didn't stick out of the crowd like superwoman in that respect. Her split-personality, not her powers, were what defined her.

As for how much we know about Niki so far, I think we know enough. We know that she has two personalities, one good, and the other completely psychotic with full use of her powers. Now, there are other comic book characters with split-personalities, but I can't think of any that resemble each other as much as Maas and Niki. Another comic character with a split personality is Typhoid Mary, but I wouldn't be as quick to draw the comparison, simply because I wouldn't find as much similarities.

I don't think there is any intentional copying that occured, and it would be hard to prove if they did. I suspect both the writers of Rising Stars and Heroes did their research (into MPD), and as a result both came up with remarkably similar characters. And while developed independently, the similarities should merit a mention. If only because they keep getting compared by different people all the time--58.105.43.186 17:06, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

"I suspect." There you go. That's the problem. Now, Tim Kring drew direct comparison with The Hulk, but that was about it. We're not going to add speculative "suspicions" to the article. I personally consider the comparison to be better with grey hulk or she-hulk, but that would be stretching what Kring said at best. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 20:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

OLTL connection

Despite the desire of Ace Class Shadow to cast this aside as "sketchy at best", does anyone know anything about this possible connection to One Life to Live? It just seems way too coincidental:

Niki Sanders and her split personality Jessica may have been given these names as a homage to the ABC soap opera One Life to Live. That show's principal character, Victoria Lord Davidson, has struggled with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) for years. Viki has numerous "alters", but the one who emerges most frequently calls herself "Niki Smith". Additionally, Viki's daughter Jessica has been revealed to have DID. Thus far, Jessica has only one alter, who calls herself "Tess".

65.215.37.164 20:20 10 Novermber 2006 (UTC)

I did a Google search on Heroes Niki Viki OR Victoria "One Life to Live", and while I found a few fan forums and blogs that discussed the similarities, I didn't see any new reports, writer interviews, or other legitimates sources that suggest that this is more than a coincidence. Primogen 23:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Rename??

Hi guys, I was just thinking, should we rename this "Niki/Jessica Sanders"? Most of the recent show referred to her as Jessica, so, what's everyone thinking? User: brentkc49 16:20, 21 November 2006

I'm thinking it would be like having articles named "Superman/Clark Kent" or "Gollum/Smeagol": clunky and unneccesary. If Jessica becomes more prominent in the series, then you can always create a redirect. Primogen 23:19, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Jessica = Niki's sister

Shown on episode 10 "Six Months Ago," when Niki is sitting in front of Jessica's grave and D.L. mentions Jessica being her sister. I'm not too good at editing so I thought I'd bring this up for someone else to do it. --WarriorofZarona 02:28, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

This makes me wonder whether the superhuman powers are actually Niki's or not. Here's my thought: Niki has the ability to "absorb" the dying and their powers. Jessica had the superhuman powers and was absorbed when she died very young. -- Jon Thompson 04:31, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

This isn't very likely. I don't think the superhuman strength surfaced until the Jessica persona took over Niki's body. But these questions will surely be answered. This sentence from the article, however, is probably incorrect:

"In "Six Months Ago", Niki is shown to have had a sister named Jessica, whom Niki's father, Hal, choked to death in a drunken rage. Jessica protected Niki from their father when he was intoxicated, which eventually led to her death at the age of ten or eleven."

It seems that the Jessica persona took over AFTER the real Jessica's death, since, after her death, the father's wrath would naturally turn to Niki. Jessica "protected" her by taking over her body, thus erasing her memory of the abuse. I'm not sure how to edit it, but the sentence above is surely incorrect. MahlerFan 05:33, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Jessica herself said during the episode that she protected Niki while Hal beat her, so the sentence in question is correct. However, everything else discussed here is speculation having no place in the article. Primogen 19:17, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

No, read the sentence carefully--it is inaccurate. Jessica clearly tells Hal that she protected Niki after the latter (Niki) became Hal's "punching bag" after Jessica's death. Therefore, the part reading "Jessica protected Niki from their father when he was intoxicated, WHICH EVENTUALLY LED TO HER DEATH AT THE AGE OF TEN OR ELEVEN" is false. It is very clear that the protection to which Jessica refers is after her own death, not before. Niki doesn't remember because Jessica is inside her body. Her protection of Niki couldn't have resulted in her death, since she was ALREADY dead. It certainly needs to be rephrased, since it is confusing and ambiguous. Possibly the deletion of the last clause would do the trick. But I would say that it is completely without ambiguity that Jessica protected Niki after her own death. Rewatch the episode and listen to what she says--it's very clear. Niki became Hal's punching bag AFTER Jessica's death. MahlerFan 23:42, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I came away from the episode thinking that Jessica protected Niki by being Hal's punching bag BEFORE her death. That's how Jessica came to die but young Niki, apparently, was left alone. I don't see the evidence for Jessica protecting Niki from Hal after her death. The appearance of the Jessica alter ego appears to be a recent thing, and it seemed that this was the first time that Hal had met the Jessica alter ego. If Jessica was protecting Niki from Hal's drunken rampages immediately after her death, why didn't the super-strong alter ego take out Hal years ago? Primogen 00:01, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I could certainly very well be wrong. I'll rewatch and listen carefully to Jessica's wording. The main reason I think she was talking about taking over Niki's body after her own death is that this would be a perfect explanation for why Niki does not remember the beatings, since she doesn't remember anything that happens when Jessica takes over. I'm not so sure that it is a recent thing, just that Niki has only recently become conscious of the missing time, etc., and only later than THAT becoming aware of the Jessica persona herself. Remember that Micah said he didn't think that she was aware of Jessica. Watch it closely and so will I...it's also entirely possible that the Jessica alter ego only recently gained the super-strength. It just seems to me that Jessica said that Niki became Hal's "punching bag" after her death and that she had to protect her at that point--which would also wipe out Niki's memory of the events. MahlerFan 00:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Primogen, I thought the same thing. I'm not so sure now. I suppose it's even possible that Niki doesn't have a power (she doesn't ahve a tattoo, right?) and that Jessica is the one with the power, who has managed to "cheat death." --Morbid-o 14:53, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I feel the absolute conclusion on Niki's power has been reached too quickly. Based on the last episode and much thought, I think it is highly likely that Jessica is the one with the power. Suresh said to Gabriel something about the soul residing in the brain. We also know Gabrial looks into the brains to learn new powers. What if Jessica is the one with the power, and her power is the ability to transfer her "soul" into a new host and never die. (Although we know Claire can "never die" this is not true. She can only regenerate. We saw when her brain (once again brain= very important in Heroes)) punctured her power was lost. If Claire exploded, she would not regenerate.) I think Niki could be "normal" and she is acting as a host for Jessica who is superpowered. In light on any conclusory evidence on Niki's powers besides what appears to be, I think her powers and abilities description is far too conclusory. Butnotthehippo 16:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I hate to ruin the theory, but, you're still forgetting that both the powers and personality seem to be "new things". I'd imagine Niki's situation is more like Crazy Jane. She has a power, but only her alt knows how to access and control it. It's not so much that Niki can't access her power anymore than Isaac Mendez can't paint sober. The power just has a elusive trigger which, yes, is probably in the brain. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 21:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

rifle

Someone who knows more about guns and is slightly insane should link "purchases a sniper rifle" to an article on the sniper rifle featured or to sniper rifles in general. I am, however too incredibly lazy to do this.Lim3Lit1 04:38, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

update:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper_rifle

possibly:

G3/SG-1 Precision Sniper Rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_G3SG/1

HOWEVER this has no evidence so someone else with more firearm knowledge should confirm something or other.

Lim3Lit1 04:46, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

I added a trivia section about the character, why did someone delete it ? Siemgi

Trivia serves no purpose, that's why, especially when it's just one line. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 22:20, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Your contribution wasn't appropriate for an encyclopedia. Can you imagine an Encyclopedia Britannica article on Heroes having a section that says that some guy in the comic book industry thinks Niki is hot? Don't set your standards lower for Wikipedia. Primogen 06:26, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't imagine them doing an article on Heroes either for that matter. And isn't Trivia about funny and unimportant details ? Siemgi

Trivia is something that is interesting but not important. Is it interesting to someone researching the topic of Niki Sanders to know that a particular comic book editor thinks she's hot? I don't think so. In general trivia sections should be avoided, but they can be used to present information that doesn't fit into existing sections but can later be expanded upon. The question I asked myself when adding a small amount of info to an article is, "Can this topic be expanded upon?" And I find it hard imagining this article eventually having a section about people who think Niki Sanders is hot. Primogen 18:54, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Frankly, I find it highly distressing that you think so little of the free encyclopedia. The only reason Brittanica doesn't have Heroes data is that they update less frequently. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 23:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think little of it. Actually I find it great that everybody can post. (Although it gets bad sometime like the DeciMation comics article). And that's why I like to add that kind of funny details. Guess you are not as open minded. That it isn't what we often find in an Encyclopedy doesn't mean that it's necessarily bad. For instance saying that Joely Richardson fakes english accent on Nip/Tuck isn't that interesting either, but it's still on Wikipedia. Siemgi

So, for perspective, just how many television programmes did Britannica add in its latest edition? --ToobMug 01:44, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I am aware that Britannica has an article on Star Trek, although it tends to fold its information on television programs into articles on its creators or stars. Since Britannica is limited by having only so many paid contributers, the issue is not about the number of articles available, but the quality of articles: in particular, trivial information dragging down the article's quality. Primogen 23:57, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, Primo. Like I said, data, not "articles". Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 00:40, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, they appear to lack data on a heck of a lot of other programmes with far greater cultural significance. What would make Heroes so special? --ToobMug 00:58, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't. But it proves my point: you can't compare the 2. Here people also do articles about what they like, even if it wouldn't belong to an Encyclopedia. Seriously: which Encyclopedia would do an article on a TV program that's less than one year old ? Siemgi

I'm not sure whether some people here are arguing that Wikipedia shouldn't cover new TV shows like Heroes or that, because it does have articles not found in a general encyclopedia like Britannica, the standards for what information goes into each article are not as high. In either case, you'd be wrong: "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia incorporating elements of general encyclopedias, specialized encyclopedias, and almanacs. All articles must follow our no original research policy and strive for accuracy; Wikipedia is not the place to insert personal opinions, experiences, or arguments. Furthermore, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Wikipedia is not a trivia collection." Primogen 06:21, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

No, we aren't, we're just saying that people are being Wikinazi with no credible argument to defend themselves. Especially seeing the nature of what I added and the number of female actresses, singers and so on who are credited as being the somethingth sexiest according to that or that magazin, but here's the one who thinks so little of Wiki talking, sooo.Siemgi

Okay, that's enough. Make all the claims you want, but if you can't be civil, there's really no need to continue this. The data isn't going into the article. We're following policies and guidelines, BTW. Remember that the next time you want to make this personal. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 21:09, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Golden Age Reference

I'm curious as to why my reference to Captain Triumph was removed, as it seems that Niki's character was heavily influenced by him. (NM, after logging in I see its because of a "identified as original research and reverted." reason)Johnnystorm 14:52, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

How? Without speculating the Jessica is that ghost of Niki's dead sister, how are they alike? Did Niki serve in the military? Was Jessica killed by the enemy? Does Niki/Jessica have all the powers Triumph does? There are more differences than similarities, even if we counted your highly speculative basis for the theory instead of against it. Really, this might be one of the worst comic book comparisons brought up in reference to Heroes. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 00:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Re-ordering the page

I really hate to sound picky or obsessed or something, but I do think the page could be re-ordered a little. I just think its weird to mention Niki's (really Jessica's) affair with Nathan before mentioning Niki's split personality. After all, Niki left Nathan's room, but Jessica took over, beat up a couple guys, then went back and slept with Nathan. I don't think the real Niki would have done that. Oh, I don't know; I'm tired and I might have missed something in the article, so it might just be me. --Arwen undomiel 05:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Internet stripper ≠ Cam whore

According to the article, a cam whore is essentially an amateur, stripping or performing acts for favors or goods; Niki appears to be more professional, doing it through an organized porn site for cash. I'd suggest using a different article when describing her work. Radagast 22:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

A New Friend

Would somebody please site this section? I don't remember seeing that in any of the episodes. 70.252.128.140 21:24, 3 February 2007 (UTC)Black Dove

Tracy

tracy was shown to be a distinct person, She shouldnt be in this article anymore than peter and his brother should be merged. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.241.193 (talk) 17:16, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Of course Tracy Strauss should have her own article... Later in the Niki Sanders article it clearly states she is one of three triplets, ie. A different person. Therefore, it makes sense that she has her own article, particularly with the discovery of her own new powers etc. and presumably prominent role in Season Three.--Combatir (talk) 13:04, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps if there was more information, this would be easier. An article with only a paragraph or two wouldn't be much good; don't get me wrong, I think there should be a separate article too. But maybe when the character's background and plotline is fleshed out more this will be possible.Theaura (talk) 00:42, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Murders

I don't want to change it in case I'm wrong, but the article says she committed at least ten murders, but only lists nine. Am I missing something? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 38.115.1.4 (talk • contribs) 20:50, 23 February 2007 (UTC).

Didn't she murder the court-appointed therapist? She snapped her arm in half and shocked her repeatedly with a taser. She looked pretty dead to me. (Ghostexorcist 04:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC))

I agree that she LOOKED dead on the show, but you cannot take that as a definite death. It's only a maybe, and therefore should not count if you ask me. 65.198.207.11 (talk) 02:36, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Jessica

Ok i have a question i says Niki showed super strenght? when? and aslo if she doesn't i think niki might be a medium ,able to have ghost take over her (like in the Sixth sense), so it would be jessica withe the superstrenght, but died and some how got transfered to niki this also might explain the RNA symbol that appears when jessica is in control- Red spiderman 3/1

Sign your comments, work on your spelling. Also, your statement is pure speculation. Niki shows the superstrength in the episode where DL and Micah visit her in jail - the guard swings a stick at her and purely by reflex she grabs it and snaps it in half. 203.14.180.100 00:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I rewatched the eposiod and Nikki had a glare in her eyes, like jessica, when she snaps the stick in half- red 4/3

So Niki is not allowed to get angry without Jessica taking over? That doesn't seem quite right. I think the situation was one where Jessica didn't even have a chance to surface and Niki didn't realise what she was doing. Much like the other heros, she discovers her powers in a time of great stress. Padillah 15:57, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

It IS Nikki who has super strength. IN the scene where she is fighting "Candace" to find Micah, she thinks it is Jessica who she is fighting. Then she looks in the mirror and see her reflection, which is Jessica, that tells her "That's not me, stop her!" Nikki, not Jessica, then punches "Candace" and sends her flying across the room. Then she rips off a doorknob. This is NIKKI> not jessica< therefore I beleive she DOES have superstrength. Also, you see her using super strength again (WITHOUT JESSICA) at the final scene when she slams Sylar with the parking meter. 65.198.207.11 (talk) 02:46, 25 August 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.198.207.11 (talk) 02:42, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Nikki and Jessica both exhibit super strength, however it seems Jessica has more control over it. This is also exemplified when Niki hits Sylar with the parking meter when he's about to beat Peter with it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.22.74.57 (talk) 20:44, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Jessica's Power

Personally, I don't really think that Superhuman strength adequately described her power... She seems to have improved coordination and skill as well. These attributes are at the very least greatly improved while in "Jessica mode". This is demonstrated with her accuracy with her general skills with weapons but she is apparently very good at being a sniper, etc. She is generally extremely competant with many things she should have little to no experience with; even playing video games. 24.195.243.188 03:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that Jessica's power is superhuman strength.

Samantha Lim88 07:25, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

It depends on how you view Jessica. If you believe her to merely be another personality of Niki, then yes, super-strength is her power. Ophois 22:39, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

maybe its jessica and nikis combined strength, but I dunno, super strength, just means that she has strength the average person doesnt. She does. end of story. no matter whats it called.69.118.144.236 23:19, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Uh, I think Jessica, Niki and later Gina are one and the same but stem from Niki and are identities that she named after her late sister who took her beatings for her, was always calm, collected and in control, stood up for her, and did what it took to protect Niki and Jessica is a more twisted concoction of that. Niki is Jessica and Jessica is Niki, it's just Niki doesn't want it and isn't really aware of her situation. Gina is a party animal showing the side of Niki that she never could or would show but always secretly wanted to show. All Gina focuses on is partying, drugs, drinking, and men. Gina really cares for nothing. The mirror and reflection scenes were Niki's way of trying to communicate with them and dealing with them which she couldn't and often failed. And I think Niki's power is superhuman strength. Jessica only had the use of it because Jessica is part of the Id (there's an article on it here) and the Id represents power, impulsive actions, brute force and confrontation, and to an extent savagery. And the Id is primarily the subconscious part of most people's mind and if you look at X-Men, especially Jean Grey and Iceman, and other Marvel Comics heroes like Scarlet Witch and Franklin Richards, the bulk of Omega-level potential lies within their subconscious and is only released during times of extreme stress and duress or when their emotions and temper run out of control. Does it click now? That's why Jessica could only use superhuman strength and gradually Niki got it. Gina, if she cared for anything serious, could use it too. Oh and the disorder Niki has is called DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (there's an article on that too here). I'm not going to explain so you guys are going to have to look it up for yourself. Superhuman strength is Niki's power as an evolved human but DID is a mental "illness" that she has that makes her so dangerous. Jessica being good with guns, video games, being a skilled hand-to-hand fighter, and able to escape scenes of her crime quickly without being seen while Niki can't is just practice when Jessica is in control. Gina can dance and drink large amounts of alcohol and party all night when Niki can't is basically just practice when she is in control. Does that solve all your questions. Elemental5293 (talk) 16:27, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Small time criminal? Really?

The article says "small-time criminal D.L. Hawkins, was in jail, accused of stealing two million dollars from a sports booker and murdering his own gang." Stealing $2M and murdering your entire gang is still considered small time? Your guys "big time" must be very impressive. I think we can just say "criminal". Padillah 15:54, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Wait a minute! I'm going to correct myself. D.L. is not, as we have found out, a criminal. He was framed by Jessica. Padillah 16:00, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Niki and Jessica merging?

Resolved

 – Gordon Ecker (talk) 05:41, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Exactly where is this coming from? I don't see any evidence that Niki and Jessica are merging. Do we have a source for this? WorldsCollide 19:31, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

All right, if there isn't a source, I'll remove it.WorldsCollide 20:24, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

There's no source but then again the season finale left many questions unanswered on purpose, like whether or not Nathan and Peter survived (Mostly the Nathan part of it), but from what we can see Jessica merged with Niki that's why Niki now can purposefully exhibit super strength. Also don't ask a question ("Do we have a source for this?") then without having any one else here to respond to your question change the article. Knight Whitefire 22:29, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I waited two days. No one responded. Further, the evidence you presented in your post above is OR. WorldsCollide 22:12, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Just because Jessica disappeared and Niki has super-strength now doesn't mean that they merged. Super-strength is Niki's natural power, so she may just have realized how to access it. Ophois 23:33, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Ali Larter said there merging, and in the season final they do shes strong but not crazy and sweet but not weak! =] user: Srstorey

Just because Ali Larter said that doesn't mean the writers intend that to happen. And the last episode doesn't hint at all that they merged. It only showed that Niki can access her power now. Ophois 21:34, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe they merge. If they had then Jessica would not have been able to talk to Niki while Candice was posing as Jessica. Niki using her power is just character development. Rather than relying on Jessica for help, she's finally doing things herself. (Slick023 19:07, 16 June 2007 (UTC))

I know consensus doesn't mean squat here but I agree with Slick023; just because Nikki can use her power at will doesn't mean Jessica is gone. This would intimate that Jessica is a trait of Nikki's power rather than a response to the abuse we've been led to believe. Padillah 19:40, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I would also like some source for determining that Nikki is using her power by herself rather than having Jessica using the power. Since they are both after Micha Jessica would have no problem co-operating with D.L. (heck she's been lying to him for months now). What are we basing this statement on? (I don't remember the epi very well). Padillah 16:51, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Didn't we see Jessica in season 2 when she tried to kill Bob in Fight or Flight, and then later in Out of Time. Didn't Maury Parkman's night mare force Jessica to take control, and that was the reason Niki took the cure (to stop Jessica).

They kinda are merging but they aren't. Niki doesn't have to rely on Jessica to protect her and take care of her anymore since she has finally discovered her ability of super strength. So Jessica won't be popping up as often. Doesn't mean that Jessica isn't going to pop up. Jessica is still that crazy, apathetic, borderline savage and domineering individual so she probably is going to pop up. Maury forced Jessica to take control but under his control. Jessica if released and if she wanted to, could have killed Mohinder when he annoyed her if she just kept punching his face, could have killed Nathan for not getting out of her way and Bob by ripping them both in half, and could've turned around and killed Maury by sending her foot through his chest for trying to control her. She might just killed or beat the daylights out of Matt Parkman, because he is a detective, just to merely keep him quiet and just threaten Molly to keep her quiet too. Though Jessica can be noble and chivalrious when she wants to, Jessica is a beast. We haven't seen the last of her. If Niki survived that explosion and if the third season is called Villains, oh Jessica is coming back. Elemental5293 (talk) 16:38, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry everyone but Niki really is dead, confirmed by One of Us, One of Them. Tracy saw Niki's body in the coffin; unless Linderman or Peter can use his power to bring back the dead(which I don't think even heroes can do; any character that recovered from severe injury was just that- severely injured but not dead), Niki really is gone. I think this issue's closed. Theaura (talk) 00:47, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Considering that the last post in this section was nearly a year ago, I don't think anyone disagrees anymore. ~Auzemandius {talk/contrib} 03:07, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

"Jessica"s history

" The side of her personality known as "Jessica" has at least been a part of Niki since her sister Jessica's death, since she remembers the event while Niki herself does not. "

I'm not real good at psychology (and I'm willing to bet that the producers don't have a psychologist on staff) but I don't think the presence of memories is any indication of the manifesting of a MPD. She could have splintered much earlier or even much later after even more stress (most people can handle the stress of a sibling dying). As a means of establishing her "existence" I don't think it stands up to scrutiny. Padillah 17:43, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Niki has split personality disorder. Jessica IS Niki. End of argument. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.121.191.36 (talk) 22:47, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Niki being "cured"

I must have understood differently but I thought Niki was trying to be "cured" of her powers, not the virus. Anyone that has had the virus thus far has been bed-ridden and quite ill. Niki looks healthy, which could be attributed to her increased strength but she would most certainly make sure Micah didn't have the sickness too. I don't think she was sick with the Virus at all. Padillah 17:50, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Niki was just in the beginning stages of the virus. The virus is basically Alzheimer's, combined with some elements of Marvel's Legacy Virus, a bad case of the flu and the cure from X-men 3. She just has lost her powers. But it would be hilarious and amazing, if after Maury released a controlled and sedative Jessica in Out of Time, Jessica was back permanently and probably injected herself with Claire's blood secretly and Niki just didn't know she had her powers back or that Jessica was back, so while Jessica has super strength again to herself, Niki is "powerless". And in the episode Powerless, Niki was being a hero without her powers and Jessica didn't need to resurface since Niki was in no real danger to herself and doesn't, consciously or unconsciously, rely on Jessica anymore. But since they share bodies and Niki was in need of dire help when she was trapped in the burning building, Jessica could've taken control and busted her way out right before the explosion. That would make so much sense. That's what I think. Elemental5293 (talk) 16:44, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Nicole?

Hey...is thier a reference that her real name is nicole? just wanderingChrisisinchrist 19:27, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

A good question, actually - it was added here but no explanation was ever provided. I've removed it pending a citation (as the alternative was to have a "citation needed" tag on the first word of the article. --Ckatz^chat_spy 05:44, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not positive, but didn't her father call her that in "Six Months Ago"?Ophois 11:45, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, Niki's father did call her by her real name during his very brief screentime. 64.85.234.166 05:03, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough, just had to check. While it's probably not desirable to have a reference on the first word of the article, it might be a good idea to add a hidden comment next to the text to avoid this in the future. Thoughts? --Ckatz^chat_spy 08:35, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok...I believe the both Nikki and Tracy have 2 powers...and both have three personalities... Nikki-Enduribility & Enhanced Strengths(Nikki,Jessica & Gina) Tracy-?????? & Cryo-Kinesis(Tracy,????? & ?????) but the could be other explanations... Oiganally I thought it was only Nikki with 4 personalities...and each peronality had it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.8.109.234 (talk) 01:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Family & Relationships

D.L.'s page has a Family & Relationships sections, can't Niki have one too? :) --Mjrmtg 02:29, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Heroes nikibadass.jpg

Image:Heroes nikibadass.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:21, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Death

The preview for Powerless said two heroes will die. Niki was in a building that exploded, she is one of them. So she is dead. BioYu-Gi! 20:16, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Then this should be simple: Prove it. Show us where she is dead and we will be fine. D.L. got shot at the end of Volume One and he didn't die then. Heck Noah was SHOT IN THE HEAD and he's not dead. Those were purposely ambiguous cliffhangers, let's see what happens in the next volume. As another editor is fond of saying, we don't have to scoop anyone so we can take our time and get it right. Padillah 20:45, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

It never said two would die. It said that two heroes would "fall". Though that implies death, it doesn't necessary mean so. Ophois (talk) 22:03, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Well then say what you meen the first time round rather than confusing the subject. Take time to quote the exact words not your own personnal interpritation. (Electrobe (talk) 17:44, 16 December 2007 (UTC))

Yeah, I agree with Padilla and Ophois. Niki and Nathan's "deaths" were extremely vague and while previous deaths like Eden, Jackie (Claire's rival), Isaac, Simone and sadly D.L, their deaths were pretty clear. Heck, even Sylar should've been dead but someone had to rescue him. For all we know, Niki (or Jessica) could've escaped that building right in time. And Nathan could be alive but seriously injured. We're just going to have to wait until season 3. It said that two heroes would fall. Could that mean that Niki is gone temporarily and Jessica is back in control? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elemental5293 (talk • contribs) 16:49, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Plus, how do we know which two heroes are supposed to have fallen? Maya fell, also. QuasiAbstract (talk) 17:27, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

You know what. That actually makes sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elemental5293 (talk • contribs) 01:36, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Niki Sanders Season 2.jpg

Image:Niki Sanders Season 2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:16, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I've updated the fair use rationale. Colud someone take a look and see if it's sufficient to remove the fair use tag? Thanks. Padillah (talk) 20:48, 5 December 2007 (UTC)