Talk:National Campaign on Dalit Human Rights

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Due to edit-warring over whether the article is POV or not, it has been protected for three days. Sort the dispute out here, please. Neil  08:24, 27 September 2007 (UTC)




The current version of the article about the National Campaign on Dalit Human Rights (NCDHR) most recently edited by Benjamin P Holder are based on false accusations against the organisation, including the harsh claims that the organisation is scape-goating non-Christians and that it is an anti-Semitic organisation denying the holocaust. The edits made by Benjamin P Holder in this article are not based on any verifiable references, and I would therefore suggest that the article about NCDHR is reverted to an objective description of the work that NCDHR does in order to preserve the objectivity of wikipedia as an encyclopedia.

Benjamin P Holder has in addition to the edits made on the article about NCDHR also edited two other articles related to NCDHR:
1) He has consistently removed NCDHR's name from the list of lauretes of the Rafto Prize which was awarded to NCDHR on 20 September 2007. [1], claiming that the award was a "hoax" and that "no such award was given to holocaust denial group". However, many independent sources verify the news that NCDHR was in fact awarded such a human rights prize, including the Norwegian embassy in India [2] and several news papers. [3] [4][5]
2) He has also deleted an entire article about NCDHR Convenor Paul Diwakar.

These systematic acts of vandalism are politically biased, and Benjamin P Holder's numerous attempts to reverse and delete articles and/or sources has been noted by many other contributors than me (as can be seen in the revision history of the abovementioned articles). I am intimidated by such accusation which compares an internationally recognised human rights organisaiton with an anti-Semitic, holocaust denying group. Such accusation are indeed serious and should be not be claimed randomly without any reliable sources. As a reply to my questioning of the neutrality of his edits in the article about NCDHR Benjamin P Holder explicitly asked me to stop "experimenting with the page" and stop "adding nonsense to wikipedia" although all I had done was to revert the text to the original article and had questioned the neutrality of his edits. As a consequence of my acts, Benjamin P Holder reported me for acts of vandalism to the wikipedia administrator.

I therefore call upon others to contribute and comment on this case. Although there may be many different views about NCDHR, it is simply unethical to claim such accusations against the organisation without proper references. I therefore suggest that the article is reverted to the most neutral description of NCDHR (e.g. 7:29, 23 September 2007) to avoid future disputes.

Palshøj 20:44, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Er, the sources regarding NCDHR's endorsement of Dalit Voice propaganda are right here, in NCDHR's own website there is an endorsement of Dalit Voice strongman VT Rajshekhar. They certainly seem to finance and endorse anti-Semites and holocaust deniers. Looks like the references you cited don;t support your claims, or, if they do, are from unreliable sources like "newkerala" (the propaganda mouthpiece of the Naxalite Communist Party of India,a banned terrorist group).Benjamin P. Holder 00:58, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think anyone questions the validity of Rafto Foundation for Human Rights. I find accusations that the Rafto organisation would support antisemittes and holocost deniers to be highly questionable. It makes me wonder if the edits and remarks are made with a malicious intent? For now I suggest reverting to an article which contains the Rafto Foundation description on this organisation. The Rafto Foundation is independent and reliable. NCDHR's web pages might understandably be biased to themselves and mr Holder seems to have a very clear POV in the organisation. Inge 10:57, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I find Inge's suggestion has much to commend it. I frankly find Mr Holder's position unsubstantiated and inexplicable, especially his bizarre denial of the undeniable fact that the Rafto prize was indeed granted to the NCDHR. I think he should declare his interest/s, whether they be personal or professional. For my part, I represent the Lutheran World Federation, a church-based organization with a significant Dalit constituency in India and a founding member of the International Dalit Solidarity Network, through which we have worked closely with the National Campaign for Dalit Human Rights. Mr Holder's accusations against the NCDHR bear no relationship to the organization I know and have worked with for over 7 years. Peter N. Prove 14:55, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Any objective reading of Mr Holder's proposed text clearly demonstrates that it is POV and with a totally negative bias. I don't know how anyone could possibly claim otherwise. Peter N. Prove 15:05, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

The claims made by Benjamin P. Holder are ridiculous.

It is beyond doubt that NCDHR was awarded the 2007 Rafto Prize, I know this because unlike mr Holder I was actually at the press conference in Bergen on the 20th of September. Any of these sites will support this fact: http://news.monstersandcritics.com/europe/news/article_1357910.php/Norwegian_human_rights_prize_to_Indian_activists http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article2005348.ece

or visit the Rafto Foundations website: www.rafto.no

This is an organisation that time after time has been able to put focus on important human rights issues and enjoys the highest credibility.

The false allegations made against NCDHR does not have in base in reality either. I see no evidence whatsoever that they are guilty of the serious allegations mr Holder accuse them of. I support the first author here: "I therefore suggest that the article is reverted to the most neutral description of NCDHR (e.g. 7:29, 23 September 2007) to avoid future disputes."


It’s saddening that someone has tried to tarnish the image of NCDHR. This is a false propaganda and we had never thought that someday someone would make such derogatory remarks against NCDHR. NCDHR has never been a Christian Missionary organization and has never forced people to convert to Christianity. We do admit that NCDHR gets financial support from Christian-Aid organization, but it has nothing to do with Christianity and it only works for the human rights of dalits across the country. The alleged remarks like spreading communalism, stereotyping and scapegoating of non-Christian religions, anti-Hindu propaganda are mere libel against NCDHR with not an iota of truth in it.

So far as Paul Divakar is concerned, he is the National Convener, NCDHR and not its head. NCDHR is active in 14 states in India with so many Dalit leaders and Non-dalit partners working with it. So it is wrong to assume that Paul Divakar is the head of NCDHR. Paul Divakar has devoted his whole life to the struggle for the restoration of human rights of Dalits only. He is one of the Sub-group Members of Planning Commission in India and well known for his conduct and commitment to the dalit cause. No one can claim that he spreads communalism and makes anti-Hindu remarks.

It is also alleged that NCDHR features and endorses anti-Hindu articles, which is just baseless. It scans the newspapers, internet, etc. wherever any violence or atrocity happens to any dalit and takes necessary steps like doing the fact finding and providing legal help to the victims. It also works for the land rights, economic rights of dalits. NCDHR primarily does advocacy and campaign for the rights of Dalits.

Therefore, I appeal you all not to get carried away by such insane remarks made by someone who does not know anything about NCDHR and help and support NCDHR to fight for the rights of Dalits who have been marginalized, oppressed, suppressed and exploited throughout ages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.161.152.89 (talk) 07:22, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Interesting that all these "users" protesting are single-purpose accounts (probably shills from Dalit Voice and socks/meatpuppets of a single user) and haven't found one counterpoint to the very simple fact that the organization endorses and is effectively run by holocaust denier and anti-Semite VT Rajshekhar. If they feature endorsements and propaganda by such anti-Semites then that certainly bears mentioning here. The Dalit rights movement has been hijacked by such racist and genocidal elements since a while back, as evidenced in a treatise on antisemitism by Leon Poliakov (see (1994). Histoire de l’antisémitisme 1945-93 (P.395). Paris.). To claim that they are only a "human rights group" working for the emancipation of the Dalits is a popular tactic used in India by numerous fundamentalist and subversive groups operating in the country, such as the National Development Front and the National Liberation Front of Tripura. It certainly works in India, where the media does not engage in any independent fact checking and the third world mentality causes them to lap up this nonsense. That does not erase the fact that they are a fundamentalist and subversive lot, as are these guys.Benjamin P. Holder 19:18, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
You are very obviously trying to push your own POV and contradicting wikipedia guidelines. Wikipedia is based on sourced information not personal views. Please read these pages to become a more productive editor. WP:NOR WP:RS WP:V --Neon white 00:55, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Request for commentEdit

It seems like the dispute is being slowly solved, since the article has now been edited to make it more objective. I have myself added references to the Rafto Prize and NCDHR Convenor Paul Diwakar which are both relevant articles concerning NCDHR. I still do not agree, however, that the edits made by Benjamin P Holder who claims that the organisation is anti-Semitic are objective; at least there should be more verifiable sources to support such claims. The references made to the statement by VT Rajshekhar are found on NCDHR's old website [1]. If you go to Dalits.org (i.e. the old website) you will find that the page has now been redirected to NCDHR's new website National Campaign on Dalit Human Rights Website. Due to the unresolved dispute I suggest that this article is referred to the discussion page on WikiProject India WP:IND. Palshøj 07:55, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

If there are no citations, then it should be removed, i dont see how there could be any ambiguity over that? --Neon white 00:49, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
If it is anti-semitic, it should be possible to find a good source for the claim. An old web site does not fit the bill. Eiler7 21:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

References

Allegations by whom directed at whom?Edit

There's a section in the article that is confusing:

"There have been allegations of spreading communalism, the stereotyping and scapegoating of non-Christian religions and forced conversions to Christianity in India[5]. They feature articles and endorsements by controversial figures such as VT Rajshekhar[6]."

I'm confused. Who is doing the alleging? Who is the alleged party?

Also, the sentence beginning "They feature articles..." has very infelicitous phrasing. What is VT Rajshekhar endorsing? The allegations? Or the alleged bad actions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.189.255.82 (talk) 17:02, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

InternationalismEdit

If the NCDHR is internationalist, as claimed, why is it that the summaries for each of the four constituent bodies all clearly relate entirely to the situation in India. None of them demonstrate any work outside that country. This article is just another example of a Wikipedia-hosted Dalit PR piece based on sources that are almost entirely part of a walled garden. If the NCDHR is actually internationalist we need to see evidence of that: deeds, not words. - Sitush (talk) 20:01, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Actually, I think I've just answered my own question. I've found the archived version of the cited source at the Wayback Machine and nowhere does it say that the NCDHR aims to work internationally. It points out that there are analogous problems outside India but that is as far as it goes. Which probably makes sense, given that the very name of the organisation is National, not International. I'm removing the claim for now. - Sitush (talk) 20:10, 28 January 2019 (UTC)