Talk:My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Producer for Monster

Both Kanye West & DJ Premier co-produced the track 'Monster', here is the link —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.135.48.16 (talk) 15:03, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

DJ Premier isn't credited in the Album's official Booklet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.89.157.66 (talk) 15:25, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

References

Edit request from 92.233.109.135, 30 October 2010

{{edit protected}} please add a Mama's Boyfriend to the bonus tracks on the album because it was stated by kanye west in an interview with MTV.

92.233.109.135 (talk) 21:04, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Please can you provide a reference which supports this? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:22, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

New Tracklisting for My Beautiful Dark Twsited Fantasy

This is the new updated tracklist:

• 1 Dark Fantasy

• 2 Gorgeous (Feat. KiD CuDi & Raekwon)

• 3 Power (Feat. Dwele)

• 4 All Of the Lights (Interlude)

• 5 All Of the Lights (Feat. Alicia Keys, Charlie Wilson, Elly Jackson, Elton John, Fergie, John Legend, KiD CuDi, Rihanna, Ryan Leslie, The-Dream & Tony Williams)

• 6 Monster (Feat. Jay-Z, Rick Ross, Nicki Minaj & Bon Iver)

• 7 So Appalled (Feat. Jay-Z, Pusha T, CyHi Da Prynce, Swizz Beatz & RZA)

• 8 Devil In A New Dress (Feat. Rick Ross)

• 9 Runaway (Feat. Pusha T)

• 10 Hell Of A Life

• 11 Blame Game (Feat. John Legend)

• 12 Lost In The World

• 13 Who Will Survive In America

• 14 See Me Now (Feat. Beyonce & Charlie Wilson) [Bonus]

• 15 Chain Heavy (Feat. M.I.A) [Exclusive iTunes]

• 16 Momma's Boyfriend [Exclusive iTunes]

• 17 Power (Remix) (Feat. Jay-Z & Swizz Beatz) [Exclusive iTunes]

• 18 Pure (Feat. Mr Hudson) [Exclusive iTunes] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jlunke2 (talk • contribs) 17:32, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Jlunke2, 2 November 2010

{{edit protected}} This is the new tracklist with added bonus tracks:

1. Dark Fantasy

2. Gorgeous (Ft. Kid Cudi and Raekwon)

3. POWER (Ft. Dwele)

4. All Of The Lights (Interlude)

5. All Of The Lights (Ft. John Legend, The-Dream, Ryan Leslie, Tony Williams, Charlie Wilson, Elly Jackson, Alicia Keys, Fergie, Kid Cudi, Rihanna and Elton John)

6. Monster (Ft. Jay-Z, Rick Ross, Nicki Minaj and Bon Iver)

7. So Appalled (Ft. Jay-Z, Pusha T, CyHi Da Prynce, Swizz Beatz and RZA)

8. Devil In a New Dress (Ft. Rick Ross)

9. Runaway (Ft. Pusha T)

10. Hell Of a Life

11. Blame Game (Feat. John Legend)

12. Lost In The World

13. Who Will Survive In America (Ft. Gill-Scott Heron)

14. See Me Now (Bonus Track) (Ft. Big Sean, Beyonce and Charlie Wilson)

15. Chain Heavy (Ft. M.I.A) (iTunes Bonus)

16. Momma’s Boyfriend (iTunes Bonus)

17. Power Remix (Ft. Jay-Z & Swizz Beatz) (iTunes Bonus)

18. Pure (Ft. Mr Hudson) (iTunes Bonus)

http://punchbowlblog.com/2010/11/02/kanye-west-my-beautiful-dark-twisted-fantasy-revised-tracklist/ Jlunke2 (talk) 17:48, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Not sure what makes this blog a reliable source. Yves (talk) 18:05, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Request disabled for now. A reliable source is needed. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 23:43, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Here is another source with the same Track listing http://defpenradio.com/kanye-west-my-beautiful-dark-twisted-fantasy-tracklist-album-cover/ Bend2pa (talk) 16:56, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

The only reliable tracks are the first thirteen. If you read carefully, you can see the bonus tracks are sourced from a blog: not a reliable source. Yves (talk) 22:15, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

I Hope 15 and 16 are real because i have been waiting to hear these since Kanye showed them to Facebook. Bend2pa (talk) 00:49, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

the album artworks

they have been revealed through Kanye's ustream session. the 4th artwork is the artwork of power in a similar fashion to the other cover (a small photo in a background) n there is another cover. the covers will also be included inside the album in a gold background

Link http://www.rap-up.com/2010/11/04/kanye-west-shows-off-album-packaging-in-ustream-session/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.177.72.52 (talk) 07:32, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

See Me Now

The bonus track "See Me Now" will be different from the original version and will feature Big Sean. Link: http://nahright.com/news/2010/11/04/video-kanye-wests-def-jam-conference-call/#comments —Preceding unsigned comment added by TMS2787 (talk • contribs) 09:36, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

New cover revealed

In this http://www.ustream.tv/kanyewest Ustream video it was revealed by looking at the completed retail product that the itunes "censored" cover art is also included as an optional cover for the album. Mongeese (talk) 17:58, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request for the production section regarding the brass

The brass session for "All of the lights" was performed by Danny Flam (French Horn, Trombone, Bass Trombone, Bass Trumpet and Tuba) and Tony Gorruso ( trumpet and flugelhorn) of NewYorkBrass.com on May 16th 2010 at Producer Ken Lewis's studio in New Jersey. Additional technical info and pictures of the seesion are here: http://blog.newyorkbrass.com/2010/05/22/bringing-the-brass-to-producer-ken-lewis/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dflam (talk • contribs) 20:36, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

There are two versions one is the music video and a remix version. --24.45.35.43 (talk) 19:15, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

If you look at the session picture at original size you will see the actual musical notes we recorded in front of Ken Lewis: [2] (Yes even in hip hop sometimes notes are used... :) ) --24.199.76.94 (talk) 09:26, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Could u please integrate this information in the article.

also Tony's page is Anthony_Gorruso --Dflam (talk) 19:41, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

This is what the album booklet says:

“ ... Brass and Woodwinds: Danny Flam, Tony Gorruso & Ken Lewis. Horn Arrangement: Ken Lewis. ... Trumpets: Mike Lovatt, Simon Finch, Andy Gathercole. French Horns: Tim Anderson, Tom Rumsby, Richard Ashton. Trombone: Mark Frost, Philip Judge. ”

The other instruments above aren't mentioned. I don't believe specifics of the recording session are necessary, as they give WP:UNDUE weight, and the musicians are already mentioned in the personnel. Yves (talk) 20:13, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

You serious??

“ ... Pete Rock elaborated on his studio experience with West, stating "He's definitely hip-hop, his roots, I was testing him on joints...He takes it to another level which is dope. He had these musicians and this song, they played around my little raggedy beat and made it real. I love the way he works — he goes from one room, writing rhymes then goes to another beat and goes to another room and does something else — I love what he's done" ”

Isn't that also WP:UNDUE weight???? This an important inside techincal detail of the recording session. The music and the techniques used to produce the album. If you really want to do your work, go ask the other musicians how and what they did. otherwise this is a gossip column and not a encyclopedic article. The hip-hop industry is shifting from sample and midi based production back to live musicians and this is a key recording. This started out as a midi concept and evolved into a live brass. The studio process was also interesting to note, the producers hired musicians who helped them sketch in the various ideas.

--Dflam (talk) 01:18, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Cover artworks

Basing on this article -> Things Fall Apart (album), it would be good to present the artworks in the "Cover art" section this way:

Cover art

On October 17, Kanye West revealed through Twitter that My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy had been rejected by certain stores because of the cover art. The artwork (a portrait by George Condo) shows West being straddled by an armless winged female (a phoenix). Both characters are depicted nude, and one nipple of the phoenix's breasts and her buttocks are visible. The painting is centered on a red background with a thin yellow border. The artwork follows along the apparent theme of the album, as well as West's music film "Runaway". According to an interview with MTV News, this is one of five album covers; all of them will be included with its purchase. A pixelated censored version of the cover is used on iTunes Store.

A second cover, with a painting of a ballerina by Condo, was posted on the Amazon.com pre-order page. It was intended to be the original artwork for "Runaway," but West used a photograph of a ballerina instead.

• Image:Kanye West My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy album cover.png The main album cover.
• Image:Kanye-west-my-beautiful-dark-twisted-fantasy-cover.jpg The second cover to be released.
• Image:Kanyecover1.jpg The third cover to be included with the album.
• Image:Kanyecover4.png The fourth cover to be included with the album.
• Image:Cover-5.jpg The fifth cover to be included with the album.

?uest (talk) 23:56, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Is having all five covers fair use? Yves (talk) 00:00, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like a very good idea to me. ΣПDiПG–STΛЯT (Talk) 02:14, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Only one can be claimed under Fair Use guidelines. STATic message me! 02:17, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Well that's not entirely true, since The Fame Monster has two. It is unclear whether it is that one of five covers will be randomly distributed throughout albums, or that one or two covers will be constantly used. Yves (talk) 02:19, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

It seems that the "first" cover with the phoenix is used, but pixellated. Yves (talk) 02:35, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

From this MTV News article, it explicitly says that all five covers will be included when you buy the album. Shouldn't that be sufficient enough support to add the template ?uest made? TheSaneLunatic (talk) 03:29, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

It is unknown whether they will all be "covers" seen when one purchases the record, or simply a fold-out album booklet with interchangeable album artwork. If this is the case, these five supposed "covers" are not fair use, as they would be simply album artwork. Yves (talk) 03:37, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

And now I know. Thanks for clearing that up. TheSaneLunatic (talk) 04:14, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

The way the covers are posted on the page now are quite ridiculous. ?uest has the right idea and posting them like they are in the articleThings Fall Apart (album), but another idea is to combine all four alternate covers into one image, like File:Covers20yo.jpg. The article as a whole would look better as well if they were combined. Ga Be 19 23:34, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Note. Posting the covers in a gallery here is not fair use. If you would like to see how it would look like, please go to the Things Fall Apart article or click here. Yves (talk) 03:43, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

• Responding to several points; (1) user created montages are strongly frowned upon, as they almost always fail one or more of the WP:NFCC criteria. (2) I concur with Yvesnimmo that the use of these images in a gallery is not supported See WP:NFG. (3) I fail to see why all of these covers are necessary. The original cover is certainly important, as it was banned from some stores. The second with the ballerina might or might not be important. Not much to support it, but something. The other three? Completely superfluous. --Hammersoft (talk) 14:15, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Superfluous? Here's a link that shows the album packaging: [3] You can see the censored version of the first artwork, the ballerina and Kanye holding the fifth one himself. ?uest (talk) 14:09, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

You didn't mention how it isn't superfluous. Covers two and four are the same as the single covers for "Runaway" and "Power", respectively, so we definitely don't need those ones. I'm thinking the blurred one is the standard one that all of them are set to, then the others are interchangeable, but this is unconfirmed. Yves (talk) 16:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Cover two and four, we need those. The ballerina painting has been used as the cover of "Runaway" at first but later, West decided to make it as an official cover for the album and chose an image of a real ballerina for the "Runaway" cover instead. And also, Kanye mentioned that all five covers will be included within the copies of the album when it hits the stores. Source -> [4] ?uest (talk) 17:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I am not disputing what you are saying. What is the problem here is fair use of non-free content. We cannot have all five covers on Wikipedia, because of copyright, and having the basic idea of covers two and four already on the single pages, those can be removed immediately. Yves (talk) 17:19, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Isn't the nude woman a succubus and not a phoenix? Check your mythological references... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.24.204.7 (talk) 14:46, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

No original research and not what the sources say. Yves (talk) 00:07, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

References

Why were the featured artists on All of the Lights removed?

ΣПDiПG–STΛЯT (Talk) 02:22, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

They are not credited per track listings at Amazon.com and the iTunes Store. Different versions were released, including one with only Drake, and one with only Rihanna, so I guess right now it's unconfirmed which remix/version will be on the album. Yves (talk) 02:27, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Alright, thanks for the response. Loads of controversy and unknowns about this album, eh? :P ΣПDiПG–STΛЯT (Talk) 02:31, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

No problem. I know, eh? I just wish an official press release from Roc-a-Fella or Def Jam would be released; it's out in less than a month! Yves (talk) 02:33, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Track's length

Here you can see each song's lenght, in case anyone wants to add that to the article. http://music.barnesandnoble.com/My-Beautiful-Dark-Twisted-Fantasy/Kanye-West/e/602527523736/?itm=2&USRI=kanye+west —Preceding unsigned comment added by Felipenor (talk • contribs) 13:24, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 84.99.5.66, 9 November 2010

{{subst:edit semi-protected}} 1. "Dark Fantasy" 4:40 2. "Gorgeous" (featuring Kid Cudi & Raekwon) 5:57 3. "Power" (featuring Dwele) 4:52 4. "All of the Lights" (Interlude) 1:02 5. "All of the Lights" 4:59 6. "Monster" (featuring Jay-Z, Rick Ross, Nicki Minaj & Bon Iver) 6:18 7. "So Appalled" (featuring Jay-Z, Pusha T, Prynce Cy Hi, Swizz Beatz & The RZA) 6:38 8. "Devil in a New Dress" (featuring Rick Ross) 5:52 9. "Runaway" (featuring Pusha T) 9:08 10. "Hell of a Life" 5:27 11. "Blame Game" (featuring John Legend) 7:49 12. "Lost in the World" (featuring Bon Iver) 4:16 13. "Who Will Survive in America" 1:38

84.99.5.66 (talk) 17:56, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Please read the template you just used. Yves (talk) 18:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Album Artwork...

The fifth album artwork (the one with the sword and the crown) is the not the official album cover. It was a recreation created by forum users on KanyeToThe.com and should therefore be deleted.Dfnj123 (talk) 22:08, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, you can tell it's not the official artwork as it's slightly blurry and doesn't look exactly like the other ones. I think it could probably be left though, until the official one is available to add as it's pretty much the same as the official one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phewcharyztik (talk • contribs) 13:59, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Chris Rock on Blame Game

Blame Game has John Legend AND Chris Rock Bend2pa (talk) 00:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

There have been many remixes of many of the tracks on this album; not all of them are necessarily credited. For example, none of the eleven artists on "All of the Lights" are included. The correct track listing has only John Legend on "Blame Game". Yves (talk) 00:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

ok, sorry I didn't Know that. Bend2pa (talk) 00:50, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, Chris Rock is definitely on the finished version but it looks like it just credits John Legend. It probably says something about Chris Rock in the credits booklet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phewcharyztik (talk • contribs) 13:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

References

Leaked

The album has broken the street date and can be found on torrentsites (I'm not going to provide a link). I don't know if this is relevant to the article, you guys can decide.

(Rodrigues124 (talk) 16:53, 10 November 2010 (UTC))

It actually is not relevant. Album leaks are not notable unless it received some coverage. --Esanchez_{(Talk 2 me or Sign here)} 17:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not the place for this. Yves (talk) 23:33, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request: no reviews.

allhiphop gave it a 10/10. allhiphop.com/stories/reviewsmusic/archive/2010/11/10/22478798.aspx

Hip hop Culture gave it an A. http://hiphop-movement.blogspot.com/2010/11/kanye-west-my-beautiful-dark-twisted.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.189.38.37 (talk) 03:43, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The Spin magazine Review is published as well. 9 out of 10. http://www.spin.com/reviews/kanye-west-my-beautiful-dark-twisted-fantasy-roc-fella —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.56.116 (talk) 17:25, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Not sure if CraveOnline is treated as a professional reviewer but they have published as well. 10 out of 10. http://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/music/article/kanye-west-my-beautiful-dark-twisted-fantasy-116417 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.56.116 (talk) 07:38, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

As with the previous post, I don't think this is classed as a professional review as such, but Stereogum gave it a highly positive review also. http://stereogum.com/571371/kanye-west-my-beautiful-dark-twisted-fantasy-premature-evaluation/franchises/premature-evaluation/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.228.52.55 (talk) 14:52, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

The Album got 10/10 off Allhiphop.com, here is the link:

http://www.allhiphop.com/stories/reviewsmusic/archive/2010/11/10/22478798.aspx —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dcfb111 (talk • contribs) 19:40, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Entertainment Weekly has published their review, MBDTF received an A. http://music-mix.ew.com/2010/11/12/kanye-west-my-beautiful-dark-twisted-fantasy-review/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.56.116 (talk) 21:12, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

New York Magazine has published their review. Favorable. http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/11/filthy_rich_kanye_wests_royal.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.56.116 (talk) 21:26, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

village voice has published their review. Favorable. http://www.villagevoice.com/2010-11-17/music/kanye-west-finally-unraveled/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.56.116 (talk) 01:11, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

The Telegraph (UK) gave it a favorable rating. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/rockandpopfeatures/8141033/Kanye-West-Im-the-greatest.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.56.116 (talk) 16:57, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

The Gazette awarded the album 4.5/5. http://www.montrealgazette.com/entertainment/Album+review+Kanye+West+Beautiful+Dark+Twisted+Fantasy/3856638/story.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.17.105.209 (talk) 14:01, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

100% on Metacritic. http://www.metacritic.com/music/my-beautiful-dark-twisted-fantasy/critic-reviews —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.17.105.209 (talk) 14:05, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Allmusic 4/5 http://allmusic.com/album/my-beautiful-dark-twisted-fantasy-r2055009 Ferrumoff (talk) 00:26, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Pitchfork 10/10 http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/14880-my-beautiful-dark-twisted-fantasy/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.17.87.110 (talk) 07:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

I think it's worth noting that this is the first 10.0 score Pitchfork has awarded to a new release since 2002's Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. 66.158.189.12 (talk) 18:29, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

• • this needs to be better prioritized in the article**

NME 9/10 http://www.nme.com/reviews/kanye-west/11723 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.17.87.110 (talk) 21:38, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

I fail to see how a perfect score review by, say, Slant Magazine, is more notable than a perfect review by The Source, and it seems a little biased to completely omit mention of any hip-hop oriented publication on this page. Compare, for instance, with The Blueprint or Aquemini, both of which list the 5-mic rating from The Source prominently on their page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schris (talk • contribs) 06:54, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Genre

I've listened the whole album. I have to say that the genre is not hip hop at 100%. So the genre information, in my opinion, should be changed to "Hip hop, alternative hip hop, pop" and also "electronic". As a real hip hop listener, I can tell the difference:

Tracks like "Runaway", "All of the Lights" and "Lost in the World" are more like pop songs; "Hell of a Life" is more electronic; "Blame Game", "Power", "Dark Fantasy", "Gorgeous", "Monster" are alternative hip hop songs; "So Appalled", "Devil in a New Dress" are the hip hop songs.

I know that there's a lot of sites, including iTunes, that has classified it as a hip hop album, but in reality, it isn't. By chance, I've found a site that gives better information on the album's genre: http://www.hillydilly.com/2010/11/kanye-west-my-beautiful-dark-twisted_09.html

???^{uest (talk • contribs)} 15:50, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

That site seems to be a blog. What makes it reliable? Yves (talk) 19:58, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

WP:OR/WP:GENREWARRIOR. STATic message me! 22:07, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Forget the fact that he cited a blog in reference to what genre this album is. A genre shouldn't be something that has to be backed up by evidence anyways, if you listened to it, you would clearly realize that "alternative hip-hop," "pop," and possibly "electronic" are more than fitting catagories that this album can be ascribed to. Mongeese (talk) 04:38, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

On the contrary; a genre, like everything else on Wikipedia, must be cited. "If you listened to it" is a perfect example of disallowed original research. Yves (talk) 04:42, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

"hip-hop" "pop" "R&B" "alien electronics" "prog-rock" All descriptive words used in this rolling stone review [5]. there's your citation. Mongeese (talk) 04:55, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Finally, the album's genre information should be changed to only alternative hip hop, because that's what the album sounds like in general. ???^{uest (talk • contribs)} 15:56, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Seeing as this is an encyclopedia, this, as with any other content in the article, should be cited. With respect to subgenres of hip hop, I had brought this question up at WP:Albums talk page for advice (talk page). Perhaps this may help with consensus. Dan56 (talk) 00:12, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Again, original research. Yves (talk) 00:14, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Kanye refers to his music genre as "Pop Art", so styles should be Hip-Hop/Pop Art--Phewcharyztik (talk) 18:43, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah,... I see no one checked the piece of advice I mentioned before. Dan56 (talk) 20:54, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree with this article and feel the album should be classed as post-rap as it develops on the conventional aspects of hip-hop and moves them forward into a new, more self-aware genre with more musical and less repetitive instrumentals. http://audiosuede.com/kanye-west-my-beautiful-dark-twisted-fantasy-the-albums-of-2010/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.125.19.230 (talk) 22:26, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Chain Heavy

Whoever came up with M.I.A on "Chain Heavy" is FAKE!!!!. Kanye West just released "Chain Heavy" from his GOOD Friday program- and it features Talib Kweli & Consequence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.63.161.164 (talk) 18:22, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Singles and albums are different. Yves (talk) 22:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Where is the official evidence that says M.I.A. is on the track though? The best evidence we have, the track itself (albeit possibly not in it's final form) does not have her in it. And yes, don't be naive, it is likely the finished track. The album has already leaked, doubt there's room for adding another guest spot now. Mongeese (talk) 04:35, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

The song isn't even on the album. Yves (talk) 05:21, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Bonus Track. Do you know enough about this album to be monitoring the discussion page? Odd, since said yourself "Singles and albums are different," implying you did know this. Plus if it wasn't, that kind of proves my point, if it's not on the album, whey would they change the song now after it's already been released? Mongeese (talk) 13:39, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Source that it's a bonus track? Knowledge of subject material is irrelevant and not reason not to be active on discussion pages. That statement was an example of acting devil's advocate. Yves (talk) 18:41, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Official Production Listing

• Production Credits

• Dark Fantasy - RZA, Kanye West and No ID
• Gorgeous - Kanye West, No ID and Mike Dean
• Power - S1 and Kanye West
• All Of The Lights (Interlude) - Kanye West
• All Of The Lights - Kanye West
• Monster - Kanye West
• So Appalled - Kanye West & No ID
• Devil In A New Dress - Bink!
• Runaway - Kanye West
• Hell OF A Life - Kanye West
• Blame Game - Kanye West & DJ Frank E
• Lost In The World - Kanye West
• Who Will Survive in America - Kanye West

source:http://freetexthost.com/3tyhqgtofx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.161.80 (talk) 05:28, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Multiple album cover images

I can see that they could be removed as they do not come from an official source, but they do meet the non-free content criteria. It isn't stated that an album page can only contain one cover image. The album features five different covers, and as stated on WP:NFCC: "Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding." The reason one album cover is accepted can also be applied to the same reasoning of the acceptance of multiple covers. Without them, the article is inadequate. ►Scarce◄ 00:07, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

There was already a discussion started above about this. I don't know if you've seen it, but the album is basically a red background with a cut-out hole, and the little square is interchangeable. The album is set to either the first or second cover as default; the others are inside the album. I don't understand how its absence is detrimental, or how its inclusion significantly increases understanding. Yves (talk) 00:12, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Critics

Here´s the link from the Rowling Stones recession, giving him 5 out of 5 stars, praising him and My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/reviews/album/45342/232350 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.227.76.11 (talk) 18:16, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Production for All of the Lights

I know this can't be confirmed by legit sources but Drake's verse was removed for the album version of "All of the Lights" ♫ Douglasr007 (talk) 21:58, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

He is still on the track. Yves (talk) 20:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

What Part please? Bend2pa (talk) 00:54, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

The chorus: same time you hear Alicia Keys, KiD CuDi, Elly Jackson, etc. Yves (talk) 01:14, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 189.253.54.103, 22 November 2010

{{subst:edit semi-protected}}

Please add: (feat. Rihanna) beside "All of the Lights" in the track listing section.

189.253.54.103 (talk) 23:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Not done: she is not credited as a featured artist, but with background vocals only. Yves (talk) 23:34, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Really? Even on the physical pressing of the album? (mikomango (talk) 20:14, 24 November 2010 (UTC))

Critical response (add internal link)

"...Pitchfork Media's Ryan Dombal called it "a hedonistic exploration into a rich and famous American id".[49] Giving the album a 10/10 rating..."

Add link to list of 10.0 albums on pitchfork.

Pitchfork Media's Ryan Dombal called it "a hedonistic exploration into a rich and famous American id".[49] Giving the album a 10/10 rating

CraigOhio (talk) 16:33, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Critical Response: New Review Rating by XXL

Please add, under the "Critical Response" section that XXL Magazine has recently given the album a XXL (classic) album rating. They will be releasing a full review of the album in their December/January issue. Source: http://www.xxlmag.com/news/2010/11/dr-dre-to-grace-the-cover-of-xxl%e2%80%99s-decemberjanuary-2011-issue/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by DAPs016 (talk • contribs) 02:32, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

New review from Absolutepunk.

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=2027712 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bldr0314 (talk • contribs) 20:14, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

PopMatters review

Just making a note that here are two reviews for this album on PopMatters. This one gave the album 10/10, and this one that gave the album 7/10. I think both reviews should be included in the critical reception section. Ga Be 19 21:07, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Sample Credits

The song "The Basement" by CL Smooth & Pete Rock is where Kanye sampled the drums for "Runaway". The first ten seconds of The Basement is the drums he uses. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.149.103.253 (talk) 23:47, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Universal/General Acclaim

Why is it listed as "General" Acclaim when metacritic list it as "Universal"? I changed it but someone changed it back. It says "general" both in the introduction as well as in the "Critical respons" section. It says: "My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy received general acclaim from music critics.[77] At Metacritic, which assigns a normalized rating out of 100 to reviews from mainstream critics, the album received an average score of 92, based on 34 reviews, which indicates "universal acclaim".[77]"

This is saying two different things but with the same reference. Why? Why isn't it Universal as it is on Metacritic? Please explain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.251.192.97 (talk) 15:06, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

As I brought before (here and here), "Universal" suggests worldwide (which probably cant be supported with one aggregate reviewer site as a citation). It's also redundant with the Metacritic statement following the lead-in for that section. "General" is a better compromise and formal tone, with respect to WP:Tone guidelines. Besides, 4star reviews from Allmusic and The Guardian were just positive. (in the 61-80 range, which Metacritic considers "generally favorable" and not "universal acclaim" 1), while it also received some mixed reviews.Dan56 (talk) 20:32, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 24.104.36.146, 1 December 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} kanye west sold 518,000 albums in a week

24.104.36.146 (talk) 17:09, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. The article already cites this source for 496,000 first-week sales of this album. Do you have a source that gives a different figure? Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 23:07, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Chart positions Germany

The album reached No. 19 on the German Albums Chart source. It even reached No. 2 on the German Downloads Chart source.

Please include both the information! --79.216.216.94 (talk) 17:45, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit Request (It's not a Phoenix, it's a Harpy) 02 December 2010

This article is currently locked, but it states that the cover art features a Phoenix. The creature depicted on the cover is actually a Harpy - Phoenix's are mythical birds that are sometimes shown on fire, while Harpy's are half women half bird creatures (usually depicted naked) that prey on men. Can someone with access please update the article? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.13.48.201 (talk) 21:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

There are sources that state otherwise, and West himself says it's intended to portray a phoenix. ([6], [7]). Yves (talk) 05:22, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Done Indeed, the cover art creature is certainly not a bird. Thanks! Greenth (talk) 05:24, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Greenth, I've undone your edit since there are sources that claim otherwise and we don't want to conduct original research. Yves (talk) 05:27, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Whoops, sorry about that - thanks for clarifying & providing a source, Yves. Looks like we were commenting on this at the same time. Since this topic has been a point of confusion several times, could that source be added to the article right after the word "phoenix"? Greenth (talk) 05:39, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Certainly! It's actually attached on the next sentence, but I'll add it there, as well! :) Yves (talk) 05:51, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

umm...maybe kanye just has them mixed up and is just pushing a mistake because it's difficult to renege at this point. the image definitely IS a harpy, not a phoenix; it's like saying that a lion in a Chinese lion dance is a dragon. Whatever. What he's trying to say is gotten, I guess. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LupeJustinian (talk • contribs) 18:29, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Thegrundrisse, 3 December 2010

{{subst:edit semi-protected}} The article should mention covers of songs on the album, perhaps in the "Critical Response" section. It should mention specific versions of the song that have been released, for instance, Shaun Cullen's version on YouTube.

Thegrundrisse (talk) 08:06, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Not done: because it's yours? Covers by non-notable artists aren't supposed to be mentioned on Wikipedia. Yves (talk) 08:15, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

All of the Lights article

Is "All of the Lights" worthy of its own article now? It just charted on the Billboard Hot 100 without even being released as a single. Superior1 (talk) 00:30, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

At this point, I would have to say, "No." by looking at notability criteria. Plenty of songs chart on the Billboard Hot 100 without any form of independent release, but as a result of high digital downloads, usually the week of a high-profile album release like this one. Referring back to the notability section, yes it charted, but I'm not sure what else could be added to a song article that this one doesn't have. The numerous background vocalists are mentioned here, and besides some news stories that applaud its grandeur, I don't think there is enough material to merit article independence. Yves (talk) 00:38, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Should this get an article now that it's being a single? Also, I think it should be noted that the single version credits Rihanna (aka Kanye West feat. Rihanna), as shown on AllAccess. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.5.79.82 (talk) 18:05, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Aphex Twin

Aphex Twin, whose real name is Richard James, composed Avril 14, which serves as the backbone for "Blame Game." The current reference forces a user to visit another wikipedia page in order to figure out who Richard James is, which is unnecessarily circuitous. Please update this link to say Aphex Twin, with Richard James in parentheses, or vice versa. Also, to claim "elements of..." doesn't seem very honest considering that the entire song is based on an Aphex Twin loop. Thanks. ThomYorke64 (talk) 20:35, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

The "reference" is based on what the liner notes say, the source. No one is forcing a user to do anything; "Richard James" and "Avril 14" are the same article. Dan56 (talk) 20:39, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

college tetralogy

Kanye planned to finish the educational tetralogy (The College Dropout, Late Registration, Graduation) with good as job. But Fantasy is clearly no album about education. So its just a trilogy, right? Or is there anything still to come? Should be updated in the first three album articles.-- Dha (talk) 20:03, 7 December 2010 (UTC)