Talk:Mille-feuille/Archive 1

Archive 1

"Authentic" Australian

As an Australian and a fan of the vanilla slice, having only ever seen or heard of the sorts that will turn up on famous web image search engine of query "vanilla slice" (generally a layer of pastry, a very thick layer of custard, another layer of pastry, and then some icing, possibly with coconut, or some icing sugar), noting that there's no reference provided at present, and being unable to find any mention or discussion of the "authentic Australian Napoleon" online or amongst personal acquaintances, I think that section should be removed, and perhaps replaced with citable information. I would suggest the website of a reasonably well-known Australian bakery as a possible reference and point out the existence of distinct products the "vanilla slice" and the "Napoleon slice" (and while we're at it, apparent variations "French vanilla" and "vanilla slice continental"). At the very least this should support the notion that the Australian vanilla slice is not identical to mille-feuille and that the "authentic Australian Napoleon" described appears to be somebody's own recipe, and not a typical Australian variation of mille-feuille. Perhaps, given that it appears to be rather different indeed to the traditional mille-feuille and a celebrated Australian creation in its own right, it deserves its own section (though probably not its own article) - I would call this contingent upon the existence of reliable information regarding its history and relation to any traditional recipes.121.45.61.62 (talk) 08:40, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I concur. The product which in Australia is called a "vanilla slice" is nothing at all like this fancy millefeuille construction, it is basically a rectangular custard tart.Tallewang (talk) 03:20, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

First things first

is it soft, like a multilayered cake, or crunchy, like those dreadful vanilla wafers? the first photo looks like the latter!

should be mentioned prominently in the description. 66.105.218.36 (talk) 06:33, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Sorry

I'm sorry to my minor edit.--鰍和浦　博夫 13:09, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

let's not promote the australian companies that sell this product. this isn't what wikipedia is for!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.101.177.248 (talk) 09:41, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Merged discussion

Start of discussion merged from Talk:Napoleon (pastry)

Etymology

According to List of misleading food names, "Napoleons are not named after Napoleon Bonaparte, but after Naples." 00:01, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Hard to tell... I can attest that this item is known in France as a mille-feuilles, possibly as a direct translation of Italian millefoglie, as the origin of the pastry is unclear. But any association of this cake with Napoleon or Naples is not widespread in France. --Svartalf 13:16, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

But in other hand in my country (Bulgaria) this cake is known as 'Napoleon'.

End of discussion merged from Talk:Napoleon (pastry)

Milhojas

About the Spanish "Milhojas", check for example this link: http://canales.laverdad.es/gastronomia/receta020205c.html

Comments from the merged "Vanilla slice" article

"Often referred to as 'Snot Block'"? I've never heard it called that... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.162.109.107 (talk • contribs)

I have. Cnwb 11:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Though it is not a common or frequent topic of my conversation, on rare occasions where I've discussed this item, I have heard people use the term snot block, including once at least 14 years ago. Asa01 07:47, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

You're not from Melbourne are you? I've asked around and everyone that's heard of it grew up in Melbourne. Phmag 01:08, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Article name

Mille-feuille only gets half the number of Google hits that Millefeuille does - shouldn't the article be moved to Millefeuille (currently a redirect) to reflect the more common usage? 86.136.168.108 11:59, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't really matter, but... Millefeuille is about 60% more popular on Google than mille-feuille, but this isn't very meaningful -- there are all sorts of reasons that one spelling might be more popular on the Web. And if you include the plurals, the mille-feuille form is 16% more popular than the millefeuille form. Of course, Google counts "mille feuille" (two words) in with "mille-feuille" (hyphen). They're close enough that any one is fine... --Macrakis 13:44, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I would argue that an Australian "Vanilla Slice" is not the same as a mille-feuille. Mille-feuilles can contain multiple altenate layers of custar an pastry, whereas a vanilla slice contains only one layer of vanilla custard. - 'Agreed, they are two very different things.'--Phmag (talk) 00:07, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

As for the nickname "snot blocks", when I was searching for the entry for vanilla slices, my boyfriend suggested I should try "snot blocks" instead - I hadn't heard the term before. (unsigned comment by anonymous User:203.214.108.9 2007-05-21T11:52:56 -- please sign your posts on talk pages)

I've added this information as follows:

In the UK and the Commonwealth, mille-feuille is known as vanilla slice or cream slice, and usually has only a top and bottom pastry layer.

I think that covers this case. Next time, you can fix this yourself.... --Macrakis 15:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I would like to point out that in Canada where I live here, we call it Napoleon Cake, never heard of Vanilla slice. Also, I believe "There is no evidence to connect the pastry to the emperor himself." is incorrect, I always understood that it was called that because he introduced it to much of Eastern Europe during his whole conquest thing, the Alternative Names list seems to support this idea as many of the eastern nations he invaded call it Napoleon cake. "Original research" on my part of course, I actually came here to find out why it was called Napoleon cake and I really don't care enough to look farther, might wanna put up a Napoleon Cake redirect to here, someone who knows how. Please and thanks. (unsigned comment by User:69.17.155.35 2007-06-04T03:36:29)

Thanks for the information on Canadian usage -- so it is "Napoleon cake" (even though it contains no cake) and not just "Napoleon" as in the US? As for the Napolean story, the pastry itself existed before Napoleon -- it is said that La Varenne invented it and Careme perfected it, but I have not been able to find good sources for this yet (so it is not in the article). It is possible that the name became attached to it because of Napoleon's conquests, but without evidence, there's not much to say, is there? --Macrakis 04:05, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm an anglophone Canadian, and I've always called it mille-feuille. It may be the nine years of French classes, though. I would think you'd get about half and half usage of Napoleon cake and mille-feuille in Canada. I have no sources to back this up, though. Does anyone else know about this? Clocktowerkiss (talk) 16:05, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Native quebec french speaker here, been in Quebec 25 years of my life and I musn't have heard this type of cake called a gateau napoléon more than twice. It's almost universally called a Mille-feuille, particularly given the very well known Vachon-brand snack-cake of this name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.59.160.126 (talk) 00:33, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Merger with Cream/Vanilla Slice

Cream Slice and Vanilla Slice appear to be regional variants of the name, but essentially the same food. Of course, there are variants of various kinds, but I believe they can best be handled in a unified article. Comments? --Macrakis 15:18, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

No, you've got that wrong, it is the same name, which is used in different places for completely different food.Tallewang (talk) 03:22, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Napoleon Cake split

While mille-feuilles come in many forms in different parts of the world, I really don't think that Australian Napoleon Cake belongs in this article. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's essentially just a slice of cake with normal iceing, right? It may very well be a variant of a mille-feuille, but I think that the core characteristic of any variation of this pastry is the presence of dozens of layered, paper-thin sheets that form its body. So if we're talking about a different dish, even one inspired by the mille-feuille, I think a fork would be best. Comments? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zantastik (talk • contribs) 20:41, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

It does seem very different but it also does contain the layered paper thin sheets of pastry as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.94.229.169 (talk) 05:29, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

so where should we put it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.94.228.244 (talk) 06:36, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. In fact it was originally it's own separate piece on this page which I thought was probably the most appropriate. I placed it there with a picture of the Australian version but it was edited and deleted (see source).--Phmag (talk) 00:07, 26 August 2010 (UTC) [[1]]

==Australasian==

Please cheack your sources or cross reference these entries. To suggest the Australasian custard/vanilla square/slice is the same as Mille feuille is incorrect. While both contain puff pastry, that is where the similarities end. Unless you wish to describe a chicken as a duck with a pointy beak and flat feet. -- unsigned comment by User:118.82.195.180 at 2011-02-12T17:55:49

Thanks for your comment. Could you tell us more? In what way is the custard slice/etc. different from millefeuille? As far as I can tell from various sources (including recipes), the main difference is that there are only two layers of pastry. Perhaps you can tell us more and find good sources supporting your information (see WP:RS)? Note that the article doesn't claim that all varieties of millefeuille are identical, any more than all varieties of, say, goulash are identical. Thanks, --Macrakis (talk) 23:36, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

You have still got yout thinking completely back to front. It's not about different names for the same product, it is about completely different products happening to have the same name, in different places. The "vanilla slice" in the Antipodes is a staple of rural housewives, and you can be assured, there is no "mille feuille" pastry in it. That special multi-layered flaky pastry is the essential defining characteristic of this product as a manifestation of the pastry-making art, regardless of what you call it, and regardless of what kind of icing or custard you put on it. It is the pastry that defines the product ( and thus the french name ), and if it doesn't have that pastry, then it is actually a completely different, and much simpler product. Tallewang (talk) 03:28, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Here's some 'ground truth' - I ate a 'Vanilla Slice/variant passionfruit icing' on Friday bought from a bakery in Burleigh Heads on the Gold Coast. My wife (of Russian origin) made a Napoleon the following day. I can attest that the chicken/duck analogy is very apt. The Vanilla Slice may well contain some of the same components but the taste is utterly different. The Vanilla Slice was sugary sweet from the topping, bland and powdery from the custard filling. Altogether an unpleasant, sticky confection - like vegemite you would have to have been brought up with it to enjoy it (I never tasted one before). The napoleon (I'm eating the last of it as I write) is sublime in it's buttery, nutty crunchiness. A completely different animal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bhepple (talk • contribs) 00:24, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Vanilla slice is an entirely different recipe. It is comical that Wikipedia has this recipe this badly wrong. 203.4.164.1 (talk) 02:53, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Custard Square (aka Vanilla Slice (Oz)) links here but I see no actual reference to it. There does seem to be quite a bit of difference as far as I can tell. A thicker top/bottom but no middle. Obviously custard in the middle - the idea of a savoury custard square is an oxymoron. The Aussie Custard Squares I had most recently were topped with passion fruit. I'd accept that maybe they're derived from the MF but given the differences, and having never previously heard of MF I'd be classing them as different products. 118.163.199.190 (talk)

Slang

i believe there is a slang usage for the term meaning vagina. i am unsure how strong it is on the "muff <-> cunt" scale.

given the food ref, i suspect it's similar to english use of "taco".

could a native speaker please confirm and add to article? 66.105.218.36 (talk) 06:47, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a dictionary. That information doesn't belong in this article. --Macrakis (talk) 10:34, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

funny, there are two meanings for mille-feuilles, and this page covers ONE of them.

if it's not a dictionary, why a page defining the CAKE version to being with?

FWIW, the "taco" page lists a dozen diff meanings...including the slang/vagina one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taco_(disambiguation) 66.105.218.66 (talk) 23:30, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that's a disambiguation page, whose explicit purpose is to help users find the right article. I'm not convinced that the vulgar meaning of 'taco' belongs there, either... Are there really people who are going to look up 'taco' in order to get encyclopedic information about female genitalia? --Macrakis (talk) 12:27, 9 September 2011 (UTC)