Talk:Michael Phelps/Archive 2

Edit request

Can someone add the Category:Swimmers at the 2012 Summer Olympics to his article? Please put it below swimmers at the 2008 Summer Olympics. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.222.6.169 (talk) 22:46, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Non-related link

Link 123 ("Omega General Manager Christophe Berthaud admits that MILORAD CAVIC of Serbia touched the finish line-touch pad first at 100 fly Olympic 2008 Beijing Race." World News Network video posting of the press conference held at the XIIIth World Championship in Rome. Retrieved on 22 March 2011.) is unrelated to its subject matter. The link points to a conspiracy video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfSP7PSCNak instead of a World News Network Press Conference. Could someone please remove the link? I don't have edit permission.

Thank you 173.74.130.67 (talk) 10:26, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Response to 131.136.242.1

WHY ISNT THERE ANYTHING ABOUT HIS MARIJUANA USE IN THAT ARTICLE? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.136.242.1 (talk) 16:11, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

There is. Read the "Controversies" paragraph.Philipmj24 (talk) 23:47, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

New WR for 100m butterfly

At the world championships in Rome on 1 August 2009 Phelps set another WR for the 100m butterfly with a time of 49.82 seconds. His records section needs to be updated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.207.44 (talk) 07:20, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Greatest swimmer ever

Would anyone disagree if I (or someone else) put the verbage "...is widely considered one of the greatest swimmers in history." I was just reading Haile Gebrselassie's article with that kind of verbage and I think it should be added to Phelps article.

Also, why isn't anything about him setting 32 world records in his career in the beginning of the article? I think that's noteworthy along with his Olympic performance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philipmj24 (talk • contribs) 09:50, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes - Why? Now it may be 39 World Records????? The article says 38 (under "World Records") - 38 or 39? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_record_progression_4x100_metres_medley_relay http://en.wikipedia.org.wiki/2009_Duel_in_the_Pool http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_swimming http://www.swimnews.com/news/view/7381 Ranji'sBusinessBuys (talk) 10:42, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

MP set 39 World Records so far. (It is updated now, thanks to you Philipmj24) Ranji'sBusinessBuys (talk) 18:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Use of Ritalin for 2 years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/sports/olympics/10Rparent.html

I think should be added to the article because it directly talks about his ADHD. He was put on the drug at age 9 and was on for two years. This would mean he was on Ritalin while he was ranked nationally. I'm not trying to take anything away from Phelps. I would just like it to be noted that Ritalin helped him focus. Children who also have ADHD may see him as someone to look to who overcame his condition and excelled to the top. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.177.176.165 (talk) 22:12, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

The NYT piece is very good but may not go as far as your unequivocal statement. If you would like to propose a sentence to be added please do so here; if supported by the cite I will add it. Thank you. Kablammo (talk) 14:07, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

He should be added to the category "People with ADHD" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.247.166.31 (talk) 02:31, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, the problem is that Ritalin is a problem when linked to sports:

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=4463

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10028130

http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/World_Anti-Doping_Program/WADP-Prohibited-list/To_be_effective/WADA_Prohibited_List_2011_EN.pdf

Aldo L (talk) 12:36, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

TV?

Maybe I missed it but nothing is written about his television appearances, like on Saturday Night Live, Rosetta Stone, or his new commercial for Guitar Hero where he parodies Tom Cruise's well-known sliding on the floor in boxers.-Babylon pride (talk) 01:53, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

The question whether those appearances will be viewed as important in his career and life as a whole. It does not seem likely that they will, especially given the number and recent frequency of his media appearances. Kablammo (talk) 19:30, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

I wrote something about him appearing in Entourage last week, but somebody deleted it!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.231.10.177 (talk) 19:57, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

"In Popular Culture" sections, such as the one you added, are discouraged because (as previously mentioned) they are not usually significant in his life/career, and they also fall under the category of trivia. KhalfaniKhaldun 23:18, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

You could have just renamed it to "Trivia" which I have done now. Also, I believe that significance is irrelevant. If it is fact deems it appropriate for Wikipedia. Many celebrities have their personal lives detailed here when that has no relevance to their career or life. So unless someone is going to go and remove all of that, I think this can stay and other appearances can be added. Lastly, it is Michael's accomplishments in the sports world is what led him to his stardom in entertainment and is now relevant to his further career. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sstorman (talk • contribs) 00:17, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Here are the relevant policies: Wikipedia:Trivia sections and Wikipedia:Handling trivia. Wikipedia does not keep track of the day-to-day activities of article subjects. To continue to add "other appearances" would make the article a long list without contributing to our understanding of him or his accomplishments. Kablammo (talk) 00:25, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

So you are saying that because his main profession is "swimmer" that you are going to monitor this article and remove any and all references to work of his in other media. For example, he was paid to host Saturday Night Live, he is now a paid endorser of Rosetta Stone. More endorsement deals will follow. However, as long as it is not in a swimming competition, you will come in and remove it all?? This I find to be a detriment to Wikipedia because you are removing factual information that is relevant to his career. I expect that you will now go ahead and remove the following information from Tiger Wood's article as well because they do not pertain to his career as a professional golfer.

1. 6 Other ventures

   * 6.1 Charity and youth projects
   * 6.2 Writings
   * 6.3 Golf course design
   * 6.4 Endorsements
   * 6.5 Honors  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.231.10.177 (talk) 15:47, 26 November 2008 (UTC) 

Content about his other activities, integrated and presented in context, which shows its significance, is appropriate. But a log of his appearances is not. This article could use more work; his foundation is not mentioned, for example. And text regarding his endorsement contracts may be OK. Feel free to use the Tiger Woods article as an example, or better yet, one of the Sports and Recreation Featured Articles. Kablammo (talk) 15:58, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

It should also be pointed out that a list of Phelps' tv appearances is readily available through the external links - his IMDB profile - and so listing his tv appearances here is rather redundant (and unnecessary since he is not primarily an actor). KhalfaniKhaldun 17:57, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Hometown

Michael Phelps is not from Baltimore. The article is misleading by stating this. He is from Baltimore County, where he grew up with MC LAZ not Baltimore City, as evidenced by his attendance at Towson High School. If he was from Baltimore, he would have attended Baltimore City Schools, which he did not. This page needs to be changed to show that he grew up in Towson. Rodgers Forge is not a neighborhood of Baltimore City.Pursesnatchaz (talk) 03:22, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Physique and lifestyle

This section is pretty dumb. A lot of these physical attributes are nothing exceptional. A 6'7 wingspan on a 6'4 body is just a bit above average. Dwyane Wade is also 6'4 and has a wingspan of 6'10.75, according to his NBA Draft measurements. Josh Howard is listed at 6'5 with a 7'2 wingspan Same goes for the "flippers" that are his size 14 feet. For a tall 22 year old guy, that's bang-on average. I have a friend who's 6'3 and has size 17 feet. I think practice and talent do a lot more to explain Phelps' success than these measurements.

Also, the following paragraph on his wrist injury and how it affected the 100m butterfly final is total speculation and not exactly biographical material. If he had lost that race, the coach could easily have blamed the wrist injury for hurting his upper body strength. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Remmycool (talk • contribs) 02:16, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, the stuff about armspan is doof. I'm a little over 6'2" and just measured armspan at little over 6'4" although I seem to remember it being greater when I was his age. Normal human males, at least those over 180cm apparently have armspan from a few to a significant number of inches greater than their height, so 6'7" for 64" is average, not exceptional. 72.228.150.44 (talk) 17:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Is it really necessary to have a blurb about him smoking pot? I mean, he's a 23-year-old jock. Smoking pot is hardly noteworthy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.117.79 (talk) 19:52, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

would it seem more correct to have "a device generally used for smoking marijuana" as opposed to "a device used for smoking marijuana" just like in the main article Bong. Duffy27 (talk) 15:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Six-beat kick

Under the header Physique and lifestyle it is stated: "Phelps idolized Australian Ian Thorpe as a teenager, (...) and later watched videos to try to emulate the Aussie's famous six-beat underwater dolphin kick off the turns."

I would like to point out that a six-beat kick is a freestyle kicking rythm, it's got nothing to do with the number of dolphin kicks you do off your walls. Therefore I suggest to simply change that into "(...) to emulate the Aussie's famous six-beat kick".Roger70 (talk) 15:10, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Go ahead! Kablammo (talk) 15:15, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Is Michael right or left handed?

Which is he?--Jandkay (talk) 18:41, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Does it matter? Sounds more like a space filler to me.--MozartEinsteinPhysics! (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 02:31, 20 January 2009 (UTC).

I'm not sure why this is important, but Michael Phelps is right-handed. He says so in his autobiography, when he mentions that he fell and injured his right wrist and was subsequently unable to sign autographs when he was in the hospital (he expressly says that he is right-handed, this is not conjecture). HTH P (talk) 20:07, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Story from eye witnesses, Personal Friends?

I have a couple of Swim coaches that have met Michael Phelps, funny story, but it goes something like this, i can check back with my coaches for more information about it, Michael Phelps walks up to my coach's best friend and starts blasting him for firing HIS coach, Bob Bowman, from a Marlin team in Cincinnati or someplace. Its interesting to note his emotions and connections to the team. Maybe this should go under a Bob Bowmen article? I think it would be interesting to put in here, might be worthless, but i would like an opinion, or is that not necessary considering this is from the group of several people around him at the time--MozartEinsteinPhysics! (talk)

Please see WP:V and WP:BLP; to include information in either article, you would need to supply a reliable source. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:08, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey, thanks Sandy! Thats basically what I needed to know, I've just started. So yes, this is not published, ergo, it should not be put in here. Again, Thanks Sandy!--MozartEinsteinPhysics! (talk) 01:21, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:23, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

WP:BLP concerns

While it should not be necessary to note this, Wikipedia's policies on Biographies of Living Persons should be consulted by anyone editing this article. Those policies are founded on these considerations, among others:

We must get the article right. Be very firm about the use of high quality references. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons—whether the material is negative, positive, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion.

Biographies of living persons must be written conservatively, with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid paper; it is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives. The possibility of harm to living subjects is one of the important factors to be considered when exercising editorial judgment.

(Emphasis added.)

This article is not a mirror of tabloid journalism, nor of news blogs or gossip sites. Nor is it a diary of Phelps' day-to-day activities, whether positive, neutral, or negative. Material added here must be correct and well-sourced, and even if it meets those criteria, should be important and useful information, not gossip. Kablammo (talk) 16:40, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7864011.stm Phelps has admitted the photos are genuine and has apologized for "regreattable behaviour." I think thats enough evidence for it to be considered genuine now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.201.165 (talk) 18:26, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

That takes care of the reliable source concern, but does not address the other BLP concerns. Is this something that will be important to an understanding of him and his career in an article of this size? It may be a one-day wonder in the news today, but is of no long-term significance. Kablammo (talk) 18:40, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't object to its removal, I merely guarantee that some bright spark will revert it. In all honesty I think the coverage is balanced, well worded and proportionate. For the time being I think that's good enough. If there's smoke and no fire (pun unintended) then I'm sure it can be removed in time. 81.108.87.117 (talk) 19:15, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay... We're giving the whole "bong incident" a bit of undue weight here. So far this is just the news of the day and hasn't had a lasting effect on his personal or professional life, so dedicating an entire paragraph to it is a bit out of line. If there are other events in the story beside him admitting to smoking from a bong, then those can be added, but until then I think a sentence is more than enough coverage.--Bobblehead ^(rants) 20:57, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree, and the IP was prescient. We now have a full paragraph on the DUI, and (at least right now), one sentence on the bong. It is instructive to compare those amounts with the space devoted to youthful drug or alcohol use by the last three U.S. presidents; this article has more space devoted to such matters than those articles do. Kablammo (talk) 21:03, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

A comment on sources. Virtually all news outlets are picking up the AP article; there is no need to have multiple sources all saying the same thing. As a general rule, it is best to stick with durable sources such as the BBC, New York Times, NPR, etc., as they do not delete their articles over time, while many local news outlets do. This article already suffers from many dead links. Kablammo (talk) 21:07, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm not too concerned about the amount of space the DUI is taken up because there were multiple events there. First was the arrest itself, then the sentencing, and the Matt Lauer interview. There are perhaps too much details in the sentencing, but the DUI is a bit more impactful than a picture of him smoking a bong. --Bobblehead ^(rants) 21:09, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

While I do slightly prefer the two-sentence, three-source version that I had initially written (more sources is not inherently a bad thing), I will not argue against the current state. I do strongly agree that it should not exceed a sentence or two until any ramifications are reported, ie. losing sponsors. GlassCobra 21:15, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I think we agree in substance, and there is not a big difference between the last two versions. While this comment makes a lot of sense, it seems that (using the example of the presidents' articles) other Wikipedia articles mention such incidents without giving them too much emphasis. I'll leave further refinement to you two. Kablammo (talk) 21:22, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I have to say that more of Phelps' statement should have been included and I disagree with the deletion of the specific portion quoted, "I'm 23 years old and despite the successes I've had in the pool, I acted in a youthful and inappropriate way, not in a manner people have come to expect from me". Because Phelps is a world-renowned athlete widely seen in the media, his statement is significant and notable regardless of whether one views it as exculpatory or not.  JGHowes  ^talk 21:56, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

The wording of the statement is interesting. It is carefully drawn. While Phelps admits that the photo is of him, he does not specifically admit to using a controlled substance. It is an apology without a full admission, which was wise in light of the possiblity of a criminal investigation. This article's present wording is correct; we should not characterize the statement as an outright admission of marijuana use, as that is not what he said. He may have gone up to that line, and left little doubt, but he did not (and likely was counseled not to) actually admit marijuana use. Kablammo (talk) 13:12, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

The Bong Incident

i think in the articel should be included (paraphrased of course) the paragraph from the news of the world article, in which it says: [copyrighted material redacted] this means, the spokesperson of his marketing firm was trying to bribe the newspaper! if phelps knew, one does not know. however, this MUST be in the article!

also, michael phelps confirmed that he smoked marijuana, therefore DELETE "alleged" in the current paragraph!

If people want to know what News of the World claims they can go there. But a statement by a tabloid about what a third party told the tabloid, does not belong in a biographical article about Phelps, unless it is verified by a reliable source and it can be shown Phelps knew about it. And I have redacted your quote as it seems to go beyond fair use of copyrighted material. Kablammo (talk) 20:22, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Phelps himself is quoted by the Associated Press and Reuters, and about a thousand other reliable sources as admitting to smoking marijuana. This has already been added to the article and removed several times. I believe that it is highly inappropriate to continue removing what has been verified as fact by Phelps himself and all the top news services.

AP story: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gav61lYnY-W3nlJteKSkTVKT6buAD9630I500 Reuters: http://uk.reuters.com/article/sportsNews/idUKTRE5101NM20090201

Can anybody honestly offer a legitimate reason not to include this in the article? --21:22, 1 February 2009 (UTC)porky —Preceding unsigned comment added by Porksoda1978 (talk • contribs)

It is included in the article. Check the last sentence of the Personal life section before the physique subsection. --Bobblehead ^(rants) 21:25, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I will have my eyes checked. -porky (talk) 21:33, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Phelps admitted to using a marijuana pipe in this news article; http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ap-phelps-marijuana&prov=ap&type=lgns, its just that I haven't edited wikipedia articles and have forgotten some of this stuff, so can someone please add it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Manuel7marin (talk • contribs) 22:11, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

See above. Kablammo (talk) 22:35, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

at the top

His legal problems seem to be out of the beginning of the article - even though they recieved a lot of attentention. Any reason not to include them?--Levineps (talk) 21:27, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

The lede is supposed to provide a general summary of the article. Phelps is most famous for his athletic accomplishments, not his legal issues. There is adequate coverage in the relevant section; it should not be present in the lede. GlassCobra 21:31, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Phelps was not originally famous for marijuana use and driving while intoxicated. Nevertheless, these are now important aspects of his celebrity as evidenced by thousands of media publications and a consequent spotlight on such activity. To say that Phelps' celebrity does not partially involve these incidents is similar to suggesting Paris Hilton is in no way famous for driving under the influence. Clearly, these incidents are part of the celebrity of the individuals in question. The nature of one's fame may change over time due to an individual's actions, just look at Elizabeth Taylor as an example. --69.127.21.238 (talk) 01:02, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I think that his three-month suspension might be forgotten by the end of the year right? Because the lead section is supposed to be a very general summary of Phelps' achievements. Speaking of which, could the suspension from the marijuana photo be put into the career rather than personal life section? -Andrewlp1991 (talk) 04:02, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Editors concerned about this article's coverage of Phelps' "bong photo" and aftermath in the news this week might want to consider WP:RECENT.  JGHowes  ^talk 04:30, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

this is not a case of "recentism", this is an important issue due to the legal situation and hypocrisy around marijuana, and his position as a role model is important for the freedom of people when there are people being thrown in jail for having a plant in society —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nustran (talk • contribs) 10:39, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

The fact that he has been banned from competing in sport for three months for drugs use should be mentioned fairly prominantly in the article Pretty Green (talk) 12:08, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

The article is not a place to discuss the issue, regardless of its importance; the suspension is mentioned in the article. Look at the articles for the present and last two US presidents to see how comparable matters are handled. Kablammo (talk) 12:30, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

"Marijuana" v. "cannabis"

Any explanation why the term "marijuana" is used in this article? I thought the consensus was pretty much to use the term "cannabis" on wikipedia. Dbaxter42 (talk) 19:35, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

American english? The drug is predominantly known as Marijuana in the US rather than cannabis. One of the many WP:ENGVAR issues that exist across all of Wikipedia. --Bobblehead ^(rants) 19:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Well I read the manual of style section relating to which variant of English is generally proper: I think that one argument could be made that if "marijuana" is proper American English then it is correct to use it to the extent that the article is about an American athlete? (For example, the point is made in the manual of style that the article on the American Civil War should be written in American English.) But is that a good principle? I guess it might be -- the article about David Beckham could use the spelling "colour" and the one about Landon Donovan could use "color." But, in this case, I don't think that "marijuana" is proper American English, either. Further, there seems to be precedent that the perferred encylopedia-wide term is "cannabis"-- a decision was made to redirect "marijuana" to "cannabis (drug)." (There is a seperate article about the etymology of the word "marihuana/marijuana.") Further, I think this is a case of having the opportunity to use a neutral word that is good in more than one variant of English. There is further precedent for a more universal theme for sports articles -- the hybrid term "Association football (soccer)" which i think is an excellent compromise. Dbaxter42 (talk) 01:39, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

As Bobblehead points out, this boils down to an instance of WP:ENGVAR. Because Michael Phelps is American and the incident occurred in the U.S., the consensus would be that American English is most appropriate. In that sense, "marijuana" is the commonly used term in the U.S.  JGHowes  ^talk 16:16, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Dbaxter42, this is a straightforward case. American athlete, American English/terminology is used. The name of a particular article does not set how Wikipedia expects the average user to refer to the term in other articles. So just because the article is called Cannabis (drug) there is no expectation that cannabis be used in lieu of marijuana in this article. --Bobblehead ^(rants) 17:38, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Of course there is no "expectation" that one should do any particular thing (apart from not vandalizing, advertising, etc.). In fact the style manual suggests that most rules require interpretation. Like I say, if it were the case that "marijuana" was proper American English, then, even though I am not sure that merely stating the case is "straightforward" is much of a defense of the principle that one (and as I point out, needlessly in this case: we aren't talking about using the word "lorry" or "pram" in place of "truck" or "stroller") uses the variant of English based on the nationality of an athlete, at least thre were would be a good argument for use of the term. But my point is, in addition to passing up the opporutnity to use a term that is more global (and more internally consistent within the enclopedia), it has not been established that "marijuana" is proper American English, any more than the words "ain't," "buck" (referring to dollars), "junkie," "hooker," or any other of a wide range of words that are "the commonly used term in the US." The term "marijuana" has always been a slang word, despite its widespread use. My question is, therefore, why in the world would we favor it over a more universal, internally-consistent term? Why go over the hurdles of having to demonstrate that "marijuana" is proper American English (which requires more than appealing to widespread usage) and further justifying that, assuming that it is proper American English, it is right to use it in an article about an American athlete when there is no need to?Dbaxter42 (talk) 20:42, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Dear Dbaxter. "Marijuana" is not slang in the U.S., it is the accepted form of reference to the drug across society and throughout the mass media. "Pot", "dope", "weed", "grass" and many other terms are slang in commponplace use, but the term "Marijuana" for the leaves, stems, seeds, buds, and even (when used loosely) refined forms of cannibis (such as hashish) is the overwhelming norm. "Cannibis" is only used when referring to the drug's scientific name or possibly when someone in possession is being booked by the police. The #1 lobby for the legalization of the smokable parts of the hemp plant, NORML (National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws), incorporates the term marijuana into its name, that is how established the usage is in the United States. Google up any headline on the Phelps case in the American press, see for yourself. There really isn't anything to have a go-round about in this instance. But thank you for your concern about proper usage in the English language Wikipedia.Wikiuser100 (talk) 21:38, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

No, "marijuana" is not a slang or colloquial term at all. In fact, Webster's Dictionary (1962 ed.) lists marijuana as a proper American term for the narcotic, as does The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, currently. In many U.S. jurisdictions, the charging documents for criminal possession specifically state "marijuana".  JGHowes  ^talk 21:30, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Dear JGHowes. Excellent research. Thank you for adding your scholarship to the discussion.Wikiuser100 (talk) 21:40, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

(e.c.) In South Carolina, the codified term is marijuana, viz., Title 16, South Carolina Code of Laws.  JGHowes  ^talk 21:43, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

It is frustrating to be involved in discussion in which major points raised are ignored in favor of just hopping on the one point that people believe they can prevail on (in this case, "no, it isn't slang"). Again, I specifically point out that you must do more than appeal to widespread usage, (including "Webster's" and "American Heritage.") The question remains, even if you accept that it is the proper American English word (which I still don't anymore than I accept "hooker" as a proper American English term, which Webster's Online Dictionary lists, without comment, as a term for "Prostitute") -- even if you accept it as the proper term in American English, why use a regional term when you don't have to? I would ask that we try to answer these questions stated above instead of pretending that looking things up in non-academic dictionaries and repeating "this is the American English term based on widespread usage" while ignoring major points about the rationale for using a regional variant when it is unnecessary is "scholarship." (In addition to the point about the internal consistency of the encyclopedia, which nobody has said anything about apart from essentially, without explanation, "we don't have to follow the convention." )Dbaxter42 (talk) 00:14, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Consistency across Wikipedia is achieved by following the Manual of Style. In this case, that would be WP:ENGVAR, as has already been stated. It appears that this article is following the guideline for consistent use within the article and reflecting the preferred American usage. This is particularly so in light of the involvement of South Carolina law enforcement agencies as mentioned in the article. The Laws of the State of South Carolina where the Phelps incident occurred (link provided above for your convenient reference) codify the term marijuana, not cannabis. The article may conceivably evolve further, depending on future developments there vis-a-vis the Sheriff's investigation and, hence, the desirable consistency is best achieved by retaining this terminology accordingly.  JGHowes  ^talk 02:40, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I want to thank the people who contributed to this debate, esp. JGHOWES. I still disagree, probably mostly because there is "an opportunity for commonality" (from the manual of style: "Opportunities for commonality -- Wikipedia tries to find words that are common to all varieties of English.") that people are avoiding for I don't know what reason. But for two words in article, you certainly have laid out what is a cogent argument, if not necessarily a convincing one; and I greatly appreciate you taking the time to do so.Dbaxter42 (talk) 05:22, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I was thinking

So Kellogg's official statement about why they let Phelps go was: "Michael's most recent behavior is not consistent with the image of Kellogg. His contract expires at the end of February and we have made a decision not to extend his contract." [1]

So driving under the influence is consistent with Kellogg's image?

--Lilwayne fo sho (talk) 21:57, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Think of how many boxes of Kellogg's cereal have been devoured by stoners all over the world. 98.239.166.251 (talk) 20:35, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Boycott

I have removed from the article the part about a boycott of Kellogg's. There is no indication that Phelps was associated in any way with this boycott or with its proponents ("pot activists", as stated in the cited article). Consequently it does not belong in this article.

I also question whether the remaining sentence, about damage to Kellogg's brand reputation, belongs here. It seems too far afield for a biographical article. It may have a place in the Kellogg's article, but is not mentioned there. Kablammo (talk) 18:04, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

It also doesn't seem to be very well sourced..--Bobblehead ^(rants) 20:18, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Octagon agency's efforts to quash the News of the World story

Er, YellowMonkey, you've deleted the tabloid's claim about Phelps' agency, Octagon, with the edit summary "not relevant and every agent does that kind of thing, nn", yet left intact present cite #18 which is the Washington Post column "Phelps Made a Mistake, But His Handlers Made It Worse" which says quite the contrary. Usually we have a problem with content lacking cites—here's an instance of a cite lacking content!  JGHowes  ^talk 00:22, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I sort of did that deliberately because the spare cite would also back up the previous sentence about the general bong issue, although I didn't check it. YellowMonkey (click here to vote for world cycling's #1 model!) 01:02, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

The text was readded. I deleted it, with the cite. Although the Washington Post may be a reliable source, the item was from an opinion columnist, not the news space, and simply repeats and comments on the original posting from the British tabloid, which does not appear to be a reliable source. That repetition in an opinion column does make the item reliable. Moreover, there has been no showing that Phelps himself participated in or was even aware of those actions, so its relevance to his biography is diminished. Kablammo (talk) 16:06, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Controversy

Wikipedia slings around the word "controversy" too freely. A controversy concerns a matter of dispute. Michael Phelps getting caught with a DUI is not a controversy about anything. It's a scandal, a shock, a tabloid story, a bad role-model, not a controversy. That is all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.186.224.138 (talk) 02:49, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Marajuana?

Before the "Physique and lifestyle" section starts, when the article talks about his bong smoking, the term "Marajuana" is used. Not only there's a spelling mistake, but I think that the term "Cannabis" is more correct. Article is semi-protected so thanks for doing it! --79.179.149.81 (talk) 20:10, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Fixed the spelling. Cannabis is called marijuana in the States.;) --Bobblehead ^(rants) 20:19, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

It states that Phelps won Eight gold medals at the 2008 Olympic games, this would not be factional. He won eight at the Bejing games, he won six gold at sydney games. This is correct! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.226.204.216 (talk) 05:51, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Um, saying that he won 8 gold medals at the 2008 Olympic games is correct, as it was held in Beijing. And it's not known as the Beijing and Sydney games. Deavenger (talk) 05:51, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Bong Incident and Endorsements

Phelps's marijuana incident was especially captivating because of its visual nature in the genre of the tabloid, in this case, the now-defunct News of the World.

This article is quite skewed regarding the outcome of Phelps's endorsements after he admitted to smoking marijuana from a bong. Specifically, it only mentions endorsers who dropped Phelps, not those who kept him, and it quotes only one expert with his opinion that Phelps's endorsements would be hurt.

"Four of his sponsors - Speedo, Omega, Hilton Hotels and PureSport - immediately released statements yesterday saying they still support him, even if they don't condone his actions, and will continue a business relationship with him." http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.phelps03feb03002017,0,7940072.story

He also kept Visa, PowerBar, Subway and Mazda (China).

On a Bill O'Reilly show (2/11/2009; http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,491886,00.html) marketing expert Peter Shankman called Kellogg's actions "stupid" and an overreaction, saying, "It is an illegal activity, but it's not - it's the most benign of the illegal."

Kellogg's late announcement brought criticism and a boycott by drug policy reform groups. http://www.canorml.org/news/kelloggs.html

In July 2009, Subway launched a new ad campaign featuring Phelps. See http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-neil7-2009jul07,1,3783714.column

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Herahesperides (talk • contribs) 13:23, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

You have to consider that Kellogg's is marketed to children. Aldo L (talk) 11:55, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

ADHD and Cannabis

Dale Gieringer of California NORML points out, "Michael Phelps does have severe ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder), a common indication for medical cannabis. There are probably thousands of Californians receiving MMJ for ADHD. The utility of MMJ for ADHD has been documented by knowledgeable physicians such as Dr. Tom O'Connell and the late Dr. Claudia Jensen, and was the subject of the book "Jeffreys Journey." However, Phelps lives in Maryland, which doesn't allow medical marijuana." Recent studies have demonstrated the effectiveness of smoking cannabis for ADHD.

Herahesperides (talk) 13:38, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Controversial point, at least. A synthetic drug such as methylphenidate will do. No doctor has ever prescribed marihuana to Phelps to treat anything. Aldo L (talk) 12:06, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Relationship(s)

How about including the details on the numerous reports of the women he's been connected to. The Las Vegas Waitress. And former Miss California, Carrie Prejean, infamous for her disparaging comments on gay marriage, and who may well be stripped of her Miss USA runners up title soon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zmalk (talk • contribs) 03:53, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

This would require reliable sources and avoidance of both undue weight and inclusion of material better located at another article (also known as a coatrack. If you have some suggested wording and associated sources, feel free to propose it. Euryalus (talk) 04:52, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

National Titles... again

As mentioned earlier here, there is some confusion about how much and what national titles Phelps has actually won. Did anyone find a source for these up to now? --FeinerMax (talk) 21:18, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I am also interested to know that list - 50 national titles so far, it is huge. I emailed Swimmingworldmagazine.com, and particularly to John Lohn too, asking to send me the list (Tracy Caulkins' list as well). Hopefully I would receive a response from John Lohn!!!! Let's see. Ranji'sBusinessBuys (talk) 06:54, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

50 national titles is impressive. But I think listing all his national titles will just be too much. Look how much space his 39 world records take up.Philipmj24 (talk) 14:25, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes it is too much, I agree. John Lohn emailed me the list just now (49 national titles actually). His email address is johnl@swimmingworldmagazine.com if it would be helpful to anyone curious about the list. Ranji'sBusinessBuys (talk) 22:08, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

This is to Philipmj24. I just thought why don't we have a short list instead. For national titles, that list would be good enough to give information. 9 events with the championships when he achieved the titles - this may take 9, or may be a few more lines. Just a suggestion - Ta. Ranji'sBusinessBuys (talk) 22:44, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

If your willing to do it, go for it. However, it must be reference and I do forsee that being a problem. Before adding anything like that do the article, I do suggest building it first and make sure it's perfect. Are you sure it's 49 national titles? That can't be right. There are various sources saying he won 50. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/swimming/7929752/Michael-Phelps-records-50th-US-national-swimming-title.html http://www.universalsports.com/news/article/newsid=486822.html http://thestar.com.my/sports/story.asp?file=/2010/8/7/sports/6815035&sec=sports

Even Swimmingworldmagazine.com states he won 50 national titles (http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/24736.asp).

Maybe the list John Lohn gave you is missing a swim? Would you be willing to e-mail the list to me?Philipmj24 (talk) 07:22, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I didn't expect a list of 49 national titles either. No, I am not sure, am still trying to get more information. John Lohn said the total is 49, how it totalled 49, and why it is 49 - not 50.

Yesterday while I contacted Swimming World Magazine, I tried to contact another organisation as well from their web, but no success my email bounced back twice so I gave up. Just now I contacted USA Swimming from their web and my request is sent successfully. Hopefully they would response. It may take 2-3 days I understand, not as fast as Swimming World Magazine. Let's wait and see what they say.

Meanwhile can you please email John Lohn (johnl@swimmingworldmagazine.com), so you would receive the information from him directly. Let's talk again later. Bye for now. Ranji'sBusinessBuys (talk) 12:11, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I received a list of 50 titles from USA Swimming today. I checked it; Yes there is 2001 Spring Nationals (April'01) in which MP didn't win 100 Fly - as far as I can see. I tried to check the meet results of Nationals on USA Swimming web; 2001 meets are not listed - so no help there. I checked swimmer profiles on their web. That event is not listed on Michael Phelps' full bio page (that list of National Titles is not a complete one anyway). And that event is listed on Ian Crocker's full bio page. I just emailed back the USA Swimming media relations manager regarding this extra title which makes the total reach 50. Let's wait. Ranji'sBusinessBuys (talk) 00:55, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

The list of national titles is as follows (all are long course except 2 short course yard titles):

200 FLY: SPG'01 SUM'02 SUM'05 SUM'06 SUM'08 SUM'09 SUM'10

100 FLY: SUM'01 SUM'02 SPG'03 SPG'04 SPG'05 SUM'06 SUM'07 SUM'08 SUM'09 SUM'10

200 IM: SUM'01 SUM'02 SUM'03 SPG'04 SPG'05 SUM'06 SUM'08

400 IM: SUM'02 SUM'06 SUM'08

100 BACK: SUM'07

200 BACK: SPG'03 SUM'03 SPG'04 SUM'07

100 FREE: SUM'03 SPG'04 SPG'05 SCY'07

200 FREE: SPG'03 SUM'03 SPG'04 SPG'05 SUM'05 SUM'06 SUM'07 SCY'07 SUM'08 SUM'09 SUM'10

400 FREE: SUM'03 SPG'05

100 FLY win in SPG'01 must have gone to Ian Crocker?????? Full Bio of Ian Crocker - USA Swimming web:

http://usaswimming.org/DesktopModules/BioViewManaged.aspx?personid=6ff1e7b2-1266-42ae-8d5d-b396b1252be2&TabId=1453&Mid=6519

Full Bio of MP doesn't include 100 Fly of SPG'01:

http://usaswimming.org/DesktopModules/BioViewManaged.aspx?personid=4beec290-d7ae-483d-a512-36b18a4e022a&TabId=1453&Mid=6519

The following website has a list which was done just before MP achieved the 100 FLY win on Thursday: http://www.universalsports.com/blogs/blog=splashed/postid=486731.html They might have added SPG'01 100 FLY as well !!!!!!!!! I am still waiting for their response.

http://usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1834&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en. This site has many of the meets results. Ranji'sBusinessBuys (talk) 07:08, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Nice work. Let's get this figured out before we consider adding it. I'm still a little concern about adding this table but not having enough references. We could find references for each individual swim but that would be rather tedious (like his world record section). I rather reference a list with all his titles. Your obviously very interested in swimming. Why not dip your feet in and start editing? Swimming related articles on Wikipedia could really use a mind like yours.Philipmj24 (talk) 15:18, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. When I received the list from John Lohn I asked for reference; he replied a complete list doesn't exist anywhere as far as he knows. Yes, that should be right, I tried to get it online, only MP full bio page of USA Swimming Web provides a list but not a complete one.

Let's wait for another day or two. Let's see what USA Swimming says for my email; one title doesn't belong to MP??? so it is only 49???

Wikipedia MP site's list of National Titles had 39 LC and 2 SCY titles - after 2009 Nationals. That was all I knew. Then during the 2010 Nationals MP reached 50. That was the time I started to be curious to see the complete list. Everyone including Swimming World Magazine said 50 because USA Swimming said so.

When I contacted John Lohn, he was the one raised this point; only 49 titles. I forwarded USA Swimming Media Relations Manager's email (with a list of 50) to John Lohn. Let's see what he does, he may provide some reference for the list he sent me.

I am still waiting for Universal Sports' first response. They published a list of titles on their website, I requested a list with the championships when MP achieved each of them. I guess they should have it!!!!

Telegraph also said 50 titles. When I contacted them for a list, they emailed me the USA Swimming Web address; I guess may be they don't have a list. I emailed Telegraph again asking them for help as the USA Swimming Web's Nationals Titles list of MP is not a complete one. Let's see what they come up with. Ranji'sBusinessBuys (talk) 06:44, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

I received responses from USA Today, etc. I may get more responses I guess - let's wait a little bit more. Ranji'sBusinessBuys (talk) 10:00, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the list above: USA Swimming don't want to respond to my question. May be because they don't have an answer, I suppose. The Michael Phelps' List of National Titles (49) is posted on the USA Swimming Facebook, USA Swimming Official Fanpage Facebook (underJust Others and Comments under Just USA Swimming), Michael Phelps Facebook (under Comments), Ranji Whittle Facebook, etc. This is even listed on Rebecca Soni Facebook and AFP Facebook.Ranji'sBusinessBuys (talk) 07:41, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit Requests

Michael Phelp's 200 m freestyle record has been broken on July 28th,2009 by Paul Biedermann {{editsemiprotected}}—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.168.251.139 (talk • contribs) 18:56, 28 July 2009

Michael Phelp's 200 m freestyle record has been broken on July 28th,2009 by Paul Biedermann{{editsemiprotected}}—Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazyfool525 (talk • contribs) 18:55, 28 July 2009

Not done: Welcome and thanks for wanting to improve this article. When you use the {{editsemiprotected}} template, you need to be specific about the change you want by phrasing the request in a 'Please change X to Y' or 'Please add Y after Z' level of detail. Also, for factual changes, you need to provide a source for the information. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 20:25, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I believe this is what the editor means:[2] Kablammo (talk) 20:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Michael Phelp's 100 m butterfly record has been broken on July 31st,2009 by Milorad Cavic <ref>http://www.roma09.it/documenti/men_record_31.pdf</ref>—Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.55.104.246 (talk • contribs) 16:29, 1 August 2009

Welcome again. When you use the {{editsemiprotected}} template, a fellow editor will see that there is something to do by checking Category:Wikipedia semi-protected edit requests and come here to make specific changes on your behalf. Please use the template if you have a specific request. If you just want to share a fact with one of the regular editors of this article, so that they can make whatever changes are appropriate, just leave off the template. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 20:34, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

"greatest swimmer" and "greatest Olympian"

Hello all,

I'm not going to claim that Michael Phelps is necessarily NOT the things I've put in the subject of this section, but they seem like rather inflated rhetoric for an encyclopedic entry when there are no cites involved. Are those labels Wikipedia's opinion? Random name (talk) 12:48, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

To call Phelps the "greatest swimmer" may be on a par with calling Albert Einstein smart. "Greatest Olympian" is more subjective. The simple solution is to use the Spitz quote (or a paraphase of it), with attribution, in the introduction. Kablammo (talk) 17:26, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I think you've got that the wrong way around. Calling Einstein smart is subjective too, albeit something a lot of people would agree on. Anyway, calling Einstein smart is just applying an adjective to someone, while calling someone "the greatest" or "the smartest" would be calling someone the pinnacle of their field - no encyclopedia should do this. 98.239.166.251 (talk) 15:09, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

fraud confirmed!!

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society-article.php?yyyy=2009&mm=08&dd=07&nav_id=61012 It is clear, that he was second in the 100 meter race. Even Omega admits it, finally after one year. (LAz17 (talk) 16:43, 7 August 2009 (UTC)).

While I wouldn't be surprised at all if this were true, before anyone even thinks about adding this to the article we should wait for a more authoritative source. B92.net cites Blic as their source, though I have not been able to find an article on Blic's website confirming this. No other media sources have picked up on this story or have made any mention of Omega's alleged admission. --98.232.98.144 (talk) 19:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Nevermind, it seems it's true after all. --98.232.98.144 (talk) 19:46, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

It is true: "Omega General Manager Christophe Berthaud admits that MILORAD CAVIC of Serbia touched the finish line-touch pad first at 100 fly Olympic 2008 Beijing Race." Here is a video of the press conference: http://wn.com/Omega_admitts_Cavic_touched_the_pad-finish_line_BEFORE_Phelps_in_100_fly_at_Beijing_Olympics

What a sorry situation. Aldo L (talk) 13:33, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Sponsorship information

Is PowerThirst a real sponsor? The source link is marked as dead, and I was unable to find any reference that indicates that Phelps ever was sponsored by PowerThirst. PowerBar (mentioned on this page as a sponsor he kept after the 'incident') maybe but not PowerThirst. Powerthirst appears to only be a humourous collegehumour video series. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.185.8.15 (talk) 13:12, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Removal

Once again, his bong incident has been removed from his page...any idea who removed it?Acaeton (talk) 00:24, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

It is covered at Michael Phelps#Personal life. –xeno^talk 15:33, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

I was going to remove it as well, but must have edit-conflicted and not realized. Grsz¹¹ 15:46, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Photo

The main photo look like its been shopped to anyone else? Its very subtle, but it still looks that way. :| 208.100.226.111 (talk) 05:18, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

University of Michigan

Did he graduate or not? The article is ambiguous on this point. 67.194.191.111 (talk) 03:46, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Biography/Medals won.

In his short bio there is an error. The second paragraph quotes: "He has won a total of fifty-nine career medals thus far in major international competition, forty-five gold, seven silver, and two bronze spanning the Olympics, the World, and the Pan Pacific Championships"

Clearly those titles do not add up to 59. I tried to look up all of his results but was unable to do so, so either a description of the other 5 medals needs to be added, or the total needs to be lowered to 54.

99.245.159.14 (talk) 23:00, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Fixed. When he won the five gold medals at the 2010 Pan Pacs, I forgot to add five to 45. Thank you for the catch.Philipmj24 (talk) 03:19, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

World Records

Ragnhild Hveger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnhild_Hveger http://www.ishof.org/honorees/66/66rhveger.html set a totalt of 44 world records. At one point she was holding 19 at the same time. Phelps is not the swimmer to set most world records - at least not yet. Still 5 to go... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.160.150.252 (talk) 12:17, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Michael Phelps held another Short Course World Record - this one for 4x100 Medley Relay with Nick Thoman, Mark Gangloff, and Nathan Adrian from 18 Dec 2009 to 20 Dec 2009 - succeeded by Russians who are still the record holders. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_record_progression_4x100_metres_medley_relay http://en.wikipedia.org.wiki/2009_Duel_in_the_Pool http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_swimming Ranji'sBusinessBuys (talk) 03:15, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

http://www.swimnews.com/news/view/7381 That means MP holds 39 world records. The article is missing the above world record (under "World Records"). Ranji'sBusinessBuys (talk) 10:51, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

You're right. Updated.Philipmj24 (talk) 21:28, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, that is great. Ranji'sBusinessBuys (talk) 11:59, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

The other thing is: Can you pl update http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_record_progression_4x100_metres_medley_relay as well? The Current Men Short Course 4x100 Medley World Record is missing. Thank you. Ranji'sBusinessBuys (talk) 12:14, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

No problem, thanks for the catch. I also updated that page.Philipmj24 (talk) 20:59, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Biased introduction / drug record

The introduction states that Phelps is "promoting healthier lifestyles" but does not mention that he had had problems on his own. I know, I know, many people will say that "everybody smokes marihuana, drinks alcohol when underage, etc.", but these are illegal (and condemned) activities in most countries of the world. Phelps has disappointed so many people, and has damaged the image of the Olympics. He is not a "white dove", as the current introduction makes him appear. Aldo L (talk) 11:41, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Last word of 8th line in Michael Phelps biography should be fourteen and not nine!

Last word of 8th line in Michael Phelps biography should be fourteen and not nine! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.137.47.120 (talk) 01:54, 29 July 2011 (UTC)