Talk:Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment/Archive 1

Archive 1

TD Capital no longer exists

Nov 25/09-I updated the ownership to reflect the changes to TD Capital which no longer exists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Goleafsgo51 (talk • contribs) 17:53, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

http://www.northleafcapital.com/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Goleafsgo51 (talk • contribs) 17:55, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 03:38, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I'll review this. It's a long article, so it might be a while before I can get through everything; I'll post notes here as I go through. I'll be away from home 12/31 through 1/6, but I expect to have good computer access during that time and should be able to continue the review if needed. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:38, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm making minor copyedits as I go through; please revert if I screw anything up.

• I don't think it's necessary to bold "Maple Leaf Gardens Limited" in the lead; it's a redirect name, but not really an alternative name, which is the MOS standard for bolding in the lead.
• "eventually" is used twice in the same sentence in the lead.
• "In 1964 MLGL launched the Tulsa Oilers of the Central Professional Hockey League, which they owned and operated": needs to be rephrased; it sounds like MLGL owned the CPHL.
• "Prior to the 1976–77 season the Maple Leafs decided to share the Dallas Black Hawks of the CHL with the Chicago Black Hawks as their affiliate, in an attempt to reduce costs": I don't understand this. I think it has to mean that the Dallas Black Hawks were the affiliate team of both the Maple Leafs and the Chicago Black Hawks, but I had to read it three or four times to figure that out -- I kept trying to parse "as their affiliate" as an attribute of the Chicago Black Hawks.
• "and pulled out of the Blazers" is followed by a hidden comment which I think can go -- the date is supplied, and the fate of the franchise can be given in that article.
• "In 1981 the MLGL owned and operated Cincinnati Tigers of the old Central Hockey League were launched": looks like an incompletely edited sentence.

• Can you elaborate on this? I don't see the problem you are referring to. TDL (talk) 06:26, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

  Rereading it I see how it is supposed to be parsed, but I kept reading "owned and operated" as the primary verbs, which meant there was no subject for "were". I agree it's technically correct, but I think it should be rephrased. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:50, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

OK I see your point now. I've reworded it. TDL (talk) 05:45, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

• "the team moved to Toronto as the Toronto Marlies, named after the company's former junior team, where they have been playing ever since": needs to be rephrased -- currently "where they have been playing" refers to "the company's former junior team". I'd suggested putting "named after the company's former junior team" in parentheses instead of commas.
• "In 1967 MLGL entered into negotiations to purchase the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team of the minor AAA International League, which were facing mounting losses": sounds like the League was facing losses, though I'm guessing you mean the team.
• "Then MLGL owner Harold Ballard": suggest "MLGL's then owner Harold Ballard"; or you could just drop the "then"; the reader understands that this is past narrative and we're talking about facts as they were at the time.
• "Later that year, Ballard helped block Bassett's attempt to repurchase the Argos": is this something that was done by MLGL in some way, even though they apparently weren't owners of the Argos at the time? If so, I think we need more details; if not -- e.g. if it Ballard did this personally and not in his role at MLGL -- then I think it can be cut.
• "Following years of acrimonious negotiations on jointly constructing a new arena for the Maple Leafs, to replace the aging MLG, with the Raptors, MLGL purchased 100% of the Raptors and the arena they had started constructing, the Air Canada Centre (ACC), from Allan Slaight and the Bank of Nova Scotia on 12 February 1998": hard to parse; please rephrase and possibly split into two sentences.
• "That July the company adopted its present name": I'd avoid references to "the present", per WP:DATED.
• In the section "Merger with the Raptors and rebranding", I think the order of the first two paragraphs should be switched. Currently the first paragraph describes events which are later than the events in the second paragraph, which makes for confusing reading -- for example, the mention that MLG was restricted to not allow professional sports comes before the statement that it was used for the Ontario Raiders.
• "a High-Definition broadcast studio": why upper case?
• "a 30 by 50-foot (15 m) video screen overlooking the plaza, which often broadcasts games": rephrase; the plaza doesn't broadcast games.
• "More recently, new MLSE president": avoid "more recently" and "new", per WP:DATED.
• "the League1 Ontario": does that "the" belong there?
• "the establishment of their own minor professional soccer team": should that be "their own minor league professional soccer team"?
• "new state-of-the-art Academy and Training Facility": why upper case? I'd expect it if that were the offical title of the facility, but from the following sentence it appears to be called the KIA Training Ground instead.
• "The acquisition of MLSE by Rogers and Bell": we haven't had the ownership history by this point in the article, so I'd give the date here.
• "and the license expired after the three year deadline to launch the channel expired": rephrase to avoid "expired" being used twice; also I would give the date, so the reader doesn't have to look back to see when the license was granted.
• "their management and naming rights agreement for the stadium, which was set to expire in 2027, were extended by 10 years": if these are a single agreement it should be "was extended"; if they are two separate agreements it should be "were set to expire".
• You have both "Council of the City of Toronto" and "City of Toronto Council"; more usual and briefer would be just "Toronto City Council" or "Toronto city council", which latter is the style used in one of your sources, for example.
• " installed himself as president on 19 November 1947": who was president before this?
• "In November 1961 Smythe sold 45,000 of his 50,000 shares to a three-person partnership formed by Stafford Smythe (Conn Smythe's son), Harold Ballard and John Bassett, who at the time owned part of the Toronto Argonauts of the Canadian Football League and Toronto Telegram, for $2.3 million, which when combined with their own holdings gave them 87,000 shares representing 60% of the company": I tweaked this a bit to make it clearer that "his son" and Stafford Smythe are the same person, but the sentence is too long and complicated and needs to be split.
• The last sentence of the "Conn Smythe" section is uncited.

Couldn't find a source so I just removed it as it isn't all that important. TDL (talk) 06:53, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

• "still owing TD Bank $15.8 on its loan": I assume there's an "M" missing here?
• "was controlled by Stavro (55%)": the source I assume you're using says 57%; if 55% is actually correct then the 29% given later is incorrect, since .55 * .51 = .28.

The sources are conflicting on this. The two offline articles that I had linked to after the sentence both say 55%, but they are written while the deal was in the process of closing, so it's possible that the final details changed. As such, I've replaced it with the values from the retrospective article you linked to. TDL (talk) 06:53, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

On second though, this says 25%, and it's hard to get more reliable than that so I have self reverted. TDL (talk) 23:04, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

• "Following the sale, the ownership structure of MLSE became divided as follows": what are the numbers preceding the company names in the subsequent list?

They are numbered company. I've explained this in the article. TDL (talk) 06:53, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

• I assume that all dollar figures given are Canadian dollars where not otherwise specified -- can you confirm?

I've now double checked all the figures, and as best as I can tell they are all either CAD or otherwise specified. I've assumed that figures published in canadian sources are referring to CAD unless otherwise specified. TDL (talk) 23:04, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

• The external links tool in the GA toolbox shows six dead links.
• Sources look fine; images are OK. I checked a handful of sources for close paraphrasing and found no problems; quite a few of the sources are not available online or are behind paywalls, but the ones I could check were OK.

-- I've completed a pass through. This is an impressive and detailed article. I'll place it on hold. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:58, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

@Mike Christie: thanks very much for the helpful comments! I'll work my way through them in the next few days. This is my first attempt at promoting an article to GA, so if I do something wrong just let me know. TDL (talk) 17:05, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm sure it won't be your last GA; this is a terrific job for your first GA. I have this page and the article watchlisted so I'll keep an eye on your responses, but feel free to ping me if necessary. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:41, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I'll respond to individual points underneath them as that's probably the most straightforward approach. TDL (talk) 06:26, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Checklinks still shows one dead link; when that's fixed I will pass this. Nice work. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:39, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Just to be specific, the dead link is footnote 47, "At home in the desert". Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:16, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

The link seems to be working fine for me. Not sure why Checklinks is reporting it as dead. Does it work for you? TDL (talk) 23:04, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

It does. Not sure what's going on with checklinks, but I'll pass this. Congratulations. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:18, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

@Mike Christie: Great! Thanks a lot for your helpful review! TDL (talk) 01:43, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Did you know hook

"that none of the three major professional sports teams owned by Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment have won a championship since 1967?", Um, three of them haven't existed for that long, so they can't have won a championship. The Maple Leafs are the only ones to have existed since 1967. The Raptors, Marlies and Toronto FC have only been around for at the most 25 yrs. Kind of a technicality, but none of have won a championship since 1999 either (picking a date at random). Oaktree b (talk) 04:09, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

I presume you're referring to the DYK hook. Yes the hook doesn't mention that two of the teams didn't exist in 1967, but the statement is still factually true. Hooks are supposed to be "short, punchy, catchy, and likely to draw the readers in to wanting to read the article", where the can get the full details. Using 1999 would have been much less "hooky". Anyways, Template:Did you know has already been updated to remove this hook, so there isn't anything we can do to change it now. TDL (talk) 16:27, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Argos

Hi @JMyrleFuller: Your recent edit added a sentence saying that MLSE will manage the Argos. I know this was speculated about in the past, but has it been confirmed? I haven't been able to find any sources to verify it. Are you aware of any? TDL (talk) 02:42, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks @Danlaycock:; I will look for sources. I can't remember exactly why I put it in there; perhaps it's interpolation on my part on what we know (Tanenbaum/Bell being partners in the Argonauts, Rogers and Bell voting in a bloc on MLSE affairs means that one of the two is effectively a silent partner anyway, and the pending relocation to the MLSE-operated stadium, which are all well-sourced) so a citation needed (or maybe a verification needed) tag might be warranted at this point. I would say it's a safe assumption that MLSE will be managing the team, but that may not be finalized until this whole thing is settled a few months from now. J. Myrle Fuller (talk) 20:38, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

I've looked further for sources but still haven't come up with anything. I've rewritten the lead for now, but once further details are finalized and announced we can of course revisit this. TDL (talk) 05:00, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

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