Talk:Manually coded English

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I originally created this article for Wikipedia, but I decided to also use it in my Everything2 node on the same subject. Please note that "Cues" is intentionally capitalized. -Etoile 18:16, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

To Etoile and NTennis: Excellent work on this article. It really clears up a lot things for me. Ray Foster 17:59, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)


I think Sign Supported English should be merged into this file as it is covered under the title of this article --NeilEvans 21:10, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Agree. It's been suggested at the Sign Supported English with no objection, so please feel free to merge. ntennis 01:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

This section is generally inaccurate because SSE in the UK is: 1. Not offered as a self standing service by interpreters. There is no qualification in the UK which registers an interpreter to work between English and SSE. It is an adaptation, depending on the needs of the client. 2. SSE actually varies from person to person. SSE has a place on a 'diglossic continuum' between English and BSL and may move anywhere between SEE and Pidgin BSL.

recently added sentence National Signed English is a unique communication system that uses a combination of B.S.L., S.S.E. and N.S.E. It creates perfect syntax, present and past tenses and allows the user to communicate in word perfect English.

this entry seems a bit "promotional" - NSE is a new system launched this year by a small UK institution tied to a book launch at the same time as this entry was added to Wikipedia. A press release from the publishers carries links to this recent Wikipedia article (created for the release??) words like "unique" and "perfect syntax" read like a press release or promotional literature and shouldn't really be in wikipedia The attempted promotion of this system by the institution that created it (OCSL)among children has caused controversy in the Deaf community and not been welcomed by Sign Language professionals.

I am ammending the entry to be a bit less promotional but stil try to retain an unbiased place in this debate. Topmark 13:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

SSE Interpreting added word "limited" to "Interpreting services are available in the UK for SSE." to reflect real situation on the ground Topmark 12:35, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Pidgin Sign English -> Contact signEdit

Since the prevailing term for this form of sign has justifiably shifted, as was already described in the article --

PSE is increasingly referred to as 'Contact Sign', because it doesn't display the features linguists expect of a pidgin.

-- I have changed the name of the section to Contact sign, while keeping the old name in the form of a span id to support links that may exist from wiki or external pages: Manually Coded English#Pidgin_Sign_English_.28PSE.29.2C_or_.27Contact_Sign.27. --Thnidu (talk) 20:09, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Makaton and total communication - SE settings/language difficulties and baby signingEdit

I think we should include a section - or start an over-arching 'parent' article - and in general be carefully differentiating MCE and Makaton which uses BSL alongside English speech - at various levels of vocabulary - so that it nearly is a synthesised pidgin and to also again outline the relationship and comparison to various baby-signing approaches; I think it's sensible if not vital in this article. Makaton started with use with the deaf who were also learning disabled but has been useful for non-hearing-related language difficulties and is increasingly well known and frequently used alongside other sign-systems within special education. Baby sign as a kind of hot-housing and relationship boon for infants with no identified additional needs or slight delays or behaviour difficulties have also gained popularity. These are the reference points that general UK readers start with. That is significant. For instance 'cutting corners' and pidgins references in the article sound at once quaint and recognisable -- this topic-area need clarification which this article so far does not provide. I suggest it is particularly significant in relation to special schools where children with additional need who may or may not have hearing impairment use and are taught with a variety of communication strategies according to individual needs. Signing is well beyond use by the only the deaf community and their close supporters and allies now and it needs to be handled carefully with great precision. I think perhaps when outline of the world of sign languages and the situation with signing and special education are tackled it's also worth noting a link to the wider set of 'total communication strategies' . No expert here - a parent of a child with SEN and I also had grown up with disability awareness and with watching see-hear and Asian eye because of good heart and isolation and OCD about wanting to be well-versed and 'see' and 'listen' to everybody properly! Perhaps gestures - and any formalised sets - used in noisy workplaces are also worth looking for and including in the general sweep of reference points for general readership too. Kathybramley (talk) 10:09, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

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