Talk:Lyndhurst, Hampshire/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 15:47, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

As I promised.....

Lead

• "it is a popular tourist attraction" - the body says the town is congested due to tourist traffic (absolutely true in my experience), but I don't think many visitors to the New Forest passing through Lyndhurst would be specifically stopping there (there's hardly anywhere to park for one thing). I'd pop in something about traffic congestion (though not actually in the opening paragraph)

• That's true, the traffic is bad all through the year for some reason. I've added "despite local congestion" to the end of the sentence but if you like I would move/reword it? ☯ Jaguar ☯ 17:57, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

• "Known as the "Capital of the New Forest"" - for a specific quotation, you'll need a source that says it verbatim

• Luckily there are a few sources backing this up, so I've added one ☯ Jaguar ☯ 17:57, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

• "New Forest district council" - should be "New Forest District Council"

• Done, and added link to New Forest District ☯ Jaguar ☯ 17:57, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

• I think it would be useful to mention where the name comes from in the lead (other town GAs such as Ashford, Kent do this)

• Added ☯ Jaguar ☯ 17:57, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

• "and over the centuries was passed to various noble families until 1667" - suggest "and was passed to various noble families" - from the earlier context, we know this is from 1066 to 1667

• Changed to "and was passed to various noble families" ☯ Jaguar ☯ 17:57, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Etymology

• This section is only one paragraph and could be merged with history

• It is very short, so I've merged it to the top of the history section. Bentworth (a GA I brought up in 2010/11/12) has a short "Village name" section too, even though this is slightly longer ☯ Jaguar ☯ 18:03, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

• "The name comprises the words lind ('lime-tree') and hyrst ('wooded hill')" - the source given does not appear to say that

• This is really bizarre, but thinkbabynames.com suggests that it means "linden village" and is a variant of Lindhurst (Old English). I'd prefer not to put this in the article as it isn't really anything to do with the village. Anyway I have found a more reliable source from New Forest online, which attributes the name to 'lime-wood'. Added that in! ☯ Jaguar ☯ 18:03, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

More later Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:47, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the review so far. ☯ Jaguar ☯ 18:03, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

History

• "It was part of the royal lands of the New Forest, with the exception of 1 virgate which was held by Herbert the Forester" - the source mentions Herbert alongside the King, but not that he had just 1 virgate
• "The manor passed to the king in 1270" - I'd mention Henry III specifically.
• Can you just confirm the "Queen Isabel" in the source is Queen Isabella of France?
• "The manor was back in the hands of the king" - suggest "The manor returned to the King's ownership". In fact, better still, mention the specific king
• "when Charles II granted it to Charles Paulet, 1st Duke of Bolton" - the source says "Charles Lord St. John of Basing"
• "He was followed successively by his son and grandson" - worth mentioning (probably in brackets) that these were the second and the third dukes
• "held successively by Prince William Henry (up to 1805) and Prince Frederick (until 1827)." - the source then goes on to say "the court baron was held by the steward of George Harrison" until 1831. That could be added in (and provide quite a cunning DYK)
• "A royal park was attached to the manor of Lyndhurst from a very early date" - that's a bit vague. "A very early date" could be 1 million years BC! Maybe "since the 13th century". Also the first part of this paragraph paraphrases the source a bit too closely
• The caption of File:Lyndhurst Church5.JPG doesn't really explain its relevance to Lyndhurst

Geography

• The first paragraph is unsourced. That's too much unverifiable information for a GA; some of it is citing the sky is blue, but "controlling the spread of invasive plants" - who said they were invasive?
• The second half of the second paragraph is unsourced. This has specific dates, so can't be passed as "not likely to be challenged"
• "It has been the scene of several internationally important Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting events" - do we have examples? Also, this section is unsourced.
• "varied "forest" from the heathland of Parkhill to the bog of Matley, and the open forest with its ancient oak and beech to the enclosures of softwoods" - too close paraphrasing to the source
• A map of the centre might be nice, Ordnance Survey Seventh Series maps are starting to come out of copyright and I can probably supply a scan if you ask nicely. Looking at the map I can see a golf course and a hospital near the centre. Do we know anything about them?

The Queen's House

• "The most important building in Lyndhurst" - according to whom? I think this needs to be qualified in some other way than "important" which is I think one of the words to watch
• "which has also in the past been called the King's House, for the name changes according to the gender of the monarch" - I think most people reading the article will be able to infer that! Just go for "is the Queen's (previously King's) House"
  • disagree, this is not obvious
• The caption for the picture could be more descriptive, briefly saying what the house is ie: home of the Verderers
• The second paragraph has too much close paraphrasing with the source
• "The building today is a rambling two-storey structure in brick" - rambling?
• Does the "Stirrup of Rufus" have anything to do with Rufus Stone just up the road?
  • Not really, it is apparently only Tudor.

Religious sitess (sic)

• Obvious typo in this section
• The first paragraph has quite a few short and choppy sentences - see if you can combine some of them
  • disagree, short sentences are usually easier to read than long ones
• "biblical characters said to be modelled on local people" - "said to be" should be rephrased, who said that and why?

Transport links

• This section could be simply named "Transport"
• "The village itself is the meeting point of the A35, running east to west from Southampton to Bournemouth" - while this is technically correct, if you wanted to get from Southampton to Bournemouth quickly, you would take the A31 and the Wessex Way, unless you were planning to go via the scenic route. Maybe use more local destinations such as "from Christchurch to Totton" and mention the A31 is not far away
• "During the summer months, the traffic through the village increases hugely because of the tourists who visit the area. This can create queues into the village from all directions." - this needs a source
• Do we know when the one-way system entered operation?
• "Some suggest that the solution" - who suggest exactly?
• Do you think it's worth mentioning there is a local road to Beaulieu?
• Are there any cycling provisions around the town? There must be National Cycle Routes around here - it's the New Forest!

Twin towns

• This section could be expanded. How did Lyndhurst get twinned with La Chevrolière (wartime effort?) and what's the relationship? Again, see Ashford, Kent where it discusses its relationship with Bad Münstereifel

Summary

• Jaguar, I'm not sure how to put this politely, but I think this is some way off meeting the GA criteria. The principal problems are large amounts of unsourced content, small but significant close paraphrasing (while the source may be free it's still not a good idea to copy the source wholesale without copyediting), and too narrow a selection of sources. There's no information about Lyndhurst's economy (particularly relating to tourism or hotels), employment (do most people commute to Southampton? What job prospects are there?), weather and climate (which most town GAs have), and I've come away from the article wanting more. I think this is best worked off in isolation without being held at "on hold" for a week. I'm sorry about that, as I know you are an experienced editor and enjoy GA reviews, but I just don't think this is up to the standard. Have a look at some of the town articles around Greater Manchester that Eric Corbett and friends have taken to GA and FA; they may give you some ideas and inspiration. Please don't give up though - this is a worthy article to take to GA and hopefully in "Round 2" we'll have more success. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:35, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the review, Ritchie, I really appreciate the time you have taken to review this. Without a doubt this article needs some work/expanding before it can reach GA, and whilst I have an almost even ratio of successful/unsuccessful GANs I am still learning along the way. I will still address everything you have mentioned and should nominate this (along with Winchester) whenever it's ready. Climate and employment should be relativity easy but I wouldn't know if there's anything on an economy (being a village). UK places are a lot more challenging to promote, but much more rewarding! ☯ Jaguar ☯ 22:25, 8 January 2015 (UTC)