Talk:List of operas by George Frideric Handel/Archive 1

Archive 1

Removal of this page.

I have nominated this page for deletion here. This has been done because there was no discussion or consensus for the information for Handel's works being in more than one place. There is however a consensus-driven location for the (complete) list of Handel's works here. Until the need for sub-pages is reached (by consensus), this page serves only to confuse. There are 15 reasons for not sub-paging in this manner here.  HWV 258  02:01, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

• I have restored the page to pre-AFD status while it is at AFD. It makes no sense to blank a page, then hold an AFD on it, as editors aren't looking at the content in question. I am not questioning your faith, but your method isn't proper in this instance. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 02:57, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Appologies for my clumsy procedure (that prompted this fix). I tried to fix the damage caused by this page in a hurry (by deleting information that could end up in search engines), and then nominated it for deletion. I realise now that I should have left it the way it was while the deletion process took its course.  HWV 258  03:02, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

We all goof. It was just your turn. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 13:34, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

The AFd is also not listed in Category:AfD debates (Media and music). Nor was I, the author of the page, notified. --Kleinzach 04:29, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

"Arrival of the Queen of Sheba" in Nero?

A recent edit re-introduced the "Arrival of the Queen of Sheba" as part of Nero. This had been previously removed by an anonymous editor. It seems to me the anonymous editor was correct; isn't that piece the opening of act 3 of the oratorio Solomon? See this tracklist. Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:52, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Correct. The famous "Arrival of the Queen of Sheba" is indeed from Solomon. The Queen of Sheba is a biblical character from the 10th Century BC. Nero's a Roman Emperor from the 1st century AD. Forty years of Handel's life separate the works and the music from Nero was lost. I don't see the connection. It would warrant quite a bit of explanation if there somehow was one. I'm going to re-remove it. DavidRF (talk) 04:57, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Heh. I was wondering about this myself. I knew something was off there... ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 03:10, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

The contents of the list

I was wondering if we should broaden our inclusion on this page. Many of Handel's oratorios have been turned into staged operas with costumes and sets. There is also his semi-opera Alceste. What do you all think?Nrswanson (talk) 08:05, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

• I think this question is fairly pertinent to the future development of this article. I would appriciate some opinions. Thanks.Nrswanson (talk) 02:27, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Let's try to be clear about this. What we have here is an encyclopedia, serving a readership. Operas and oratorios (which in the case of Handel are well distinguished) should be kept separate so that readers can easily find the information they need. (We are not an opera company, serving an audience, that might well decide to present Semele as an opera, or whatever.)

As a number of other people have pointed out, we should have a dedicated page for the Handel Oratorios, though whether anyone will take this on given the hostile circumstances here (and doubtless another attempt at deleting the new page) is anyone's guess! --Kleinzach 07:34, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

• I am inclined to agree with you, and I think a list of oratorios would make an excellent addition to the wikipedia. I would like to write a basis of inclusion section for the list, explaining why we are not including the staged oratorios. It's enough to briefly mention them in the lead. I do, however, think Acis and Galatea and Alceste both belong on this list. We often include semi-operas or masques on the list of operas for other composers and I see no reason not to do so here. They are also a part of our Template:Handel operas and in Category:Operas by George Frideric Handel. Semele (Handel) should probably be removed from the template and cats associated with Handel's operas. Nrswanson (talk) 19:09, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

It might be best to list Acis and Galatea (and Alceste (Handel)) separately at the foot of the page under 'Other stage works' or similar. This is what Grove does - and we have done from time to time with our lists. --Kleinzach 01:27, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

• That probably would be a suitable solution. Acis and Galatea is particularly problematic since it has been adapted so many times and can therefore be labeled multiple things. Although Grove does say "Acis and Galatea represents the high point of the pastoral opera in England, indeed perhaps anywhere." Would you support my removing Semele from the opera cats, etc.?Nrswanson (talk) 01:40, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps the Semele (Handel) needs to be sensitively rewritten if you are going to put it squarely in the oratorio camp? I'm certainly not against removing it from opera cats, but we don't want people putting it back in and wasting our time. It's a borderline work, of course. --Kleinzach 01:46, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

• Agreed. I'll see what I can do in terms of re-writing it later this week. Once that is done I'll bring up the cat removals at the opera project.02:03, 17 February 2009 (UTC)