Talk:List of monuments and memorials removed during the George Floyd protests/Archive 2
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'Hey Reb' statue removed by University of Nevada, Las Vegas; mascot under review
Resolveddeisenbe (talk) 23:37, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Spirit of Eagle (talk) 02:28, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Another Columbus statue to add...
---Another Believer (Talk) 20:13, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/06/18/christopher-columbus-statue-in-san-francisco-removed-this-morning/ deisenbe (talk) 23:18, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Josephus Daniel's name removed from middle school, Raleigh NC
Resolveddeisenbe (talk) 09:43, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
I added this to the main list a bit ago. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 05:45, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Statue of Calvin Griffith, Minnesota Twins
deisenbe (talk) 14:38, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
- I've created Statue of Calvin Griffith ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:16, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Washington DC: statue of Conf. general Albert Pike pulled down, burned
Resolvedhttps://nypost.com/2020/06/20/dc-protesters-topple-torch-confederate-statue-on-juneteenth/
deisenbe (talk) 09:36, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- This would be the Statue of Albert Pike. ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:52, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- I see the table has been updated, so I will archive this section. ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:55, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Santa Barbara, CA – Sambo's restaurant renamed
Table entry for Names_and_nomenclature. Amid the country's demonstrations against racism, the last remaining Sambo's restaurant, established in 1957, temporarily renamed 'Peace & Love' until a new name is determined.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/06/us/restaurant-name-trnd/index.html
Confederate statue in Little Rock removed, officials say
https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/jun/18/confederate-statue-little-rock-removed-thursday-va/
https://www.arkansasonline.com/galleries/29968/album/
deisenbe (talk) 23:50, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Done Memorial to Company A, Capitol Guards. gobonobo + c 22:28, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Useful source
CNN published an article detailing the statues removed during the protests. This may be a useful source. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 07:09, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
- From that source, we're still missing:
- statue of Edward Carnack, Nashville, Tennessee
- Robert E. Lee memorial, Roanoke, Virginia[1]
- gobonobo + c 12:36, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
- Gobonobo, I've created a stub for Robert E. Lee Memorial (Roanoke, Virginia). ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:03, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you Another Believer. Your work creating articles for all of these statues has been great. gobonobo + c 04:19, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
- Confirmed: Carmack is on the list. I just now added Robert E. Lee Memorial (Roanoke, Virginia) to the List. Normal Op (talk) 22:50, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Gobonobo, Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:56, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you Another Believer. Your work creating articles for all of these statues has been great. gobonobo + c 04:19, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
- Gobonobo, I've created a stub for Robert E. Lee Memorial (Roanoke, Virginia). ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:03, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- statue of Edward Carnack, Nashville, Tennessee
ResolvedThanks! Archiving now... ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:56, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Leopold removal to be added
University of Mons, https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/black-lives-matter-protests-king-leopold-statues/2020/06/09/042039f6-a9c5-11ea-9063-e69bd6520940_story.html deisenbe (talk) 09:09, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- Done. I verified that this statue (bust) was already in the List. I also updated all the citations in the Belgian section from raw URLs. I checked for a long time and I could not find any photographs of the two Leopold busts (at Mons and Leuven). Normal Op (talk) 01:44, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
ResolvedUS Navy joins Marines in moving to ban Confederate battle flag By Ryan Browne, CNN Updated 6:41 PM ET, Tue June 9, 2020 https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/politics/us-navy-ban-confederate-flag/index.html&ct=ga&cd=CAEYBioTNDc3NTI0NTE3NzY0MjI0NjE5NjIaOGRmYjk0ZWNmZGIyOTZiNjpjb206ZW46VVM&usg=AFQjCNHZwYjVp4yBok6M0PecqFrU4LZ9NQ
deisenbe (talk) 09:18, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- Done. I verified that there is already a complete entry in the List. I added a Navy Times citation to the one already there. Normal Op (talk) 01:53, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
ResolvedTuskegee Confederate Monument
According to this source, officials are looking for ways to remove the Tuskegee Confederate Monument. I'm not sure if that's enough for list inclusion or not, but worth keeping an eye on developments. ---Another Believer (Talk) 05:06, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
- @Norschweden, Spirit of Eagle, Deisenbe, and Found5dollar: Thoughts on whether or not to add? ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:04, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
- I think this meets the standard for adding, because the monument is being covered up by the county (also illegal, by the way). If no one can see it, that's a type of removal. Also, the Alabama statute prohibiting removal has already been broken three times in three cities. I would guess that relatively poor Macon County doesn't want to spit in the AL Attorney General's face like Birmingham has done, but I think the line has been crossed with this one. ¶ Cross recently burned near Tuskegee: https://news.yahoo.com/deputies-investigate-cross-burning-bridge-101915282.html deisenbe (talk) 16:42, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
- This is borderline. They do not have a firm announcement or vote to remove, but the city is clearly pursuing this option. I would personally say no because regardless of the cover, its still there in the same place it has always been. Plus, the covering is pretty easy to remove; this isn't something like a painted-over mural that would take skilled experts and a ton of money to recover. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 22:09, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
- I would also say no, not at this time. I did update the Tuskegee Confederate Monument article to include one of the above citations and content about June 2020. They covered the statue with tarps because it had been tagged with graffiti... again. They are pursuing trying to find out how to legally have it moved — neither the city nor the county owns the land it sits on, and UDC hasn't moved their statue. Just because a statue was attacked, and someone wants it gone, doesn't mean it was "removed" (even in someone's mind; like a decision being made). Until the city or county can gain the right to remove someone else's statue on someone else's land... eh... just a no. I would have covered it with tarps, too. It's called "mitigating the damage" (and you can do that whether you "own" something or not). I say we archive this discussion as moot. If it comes up again, it can have a new section. Normal Op (talk) 04:50, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- This is borderline. They do not have a firm announcement or vote to remove, but the city is clearly pursuing this option. I would personally say no because regardless of the cover, its still there in the same place it has always been. Plus, the covering is pretty easy to remove; this isn't something like a painted-over mural that would take skilled experts and a ton of money to recover. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 22:09, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
- I think this meets the standard for adding, because the monument is being covered up by the county (also illegal, by the way). If no one can see it, that's a type of removal. Also, the Alabama statute prohibiting removal has already been broken three times in three cities. I would guess that relatively poor Macon County doesn't want to spit in the AL Attorney General's face like Birmingham has done, but I think the line has been crossed with this one. ¶ Cross recently burned near Tuskegee: https://news.yahoo.com/deputies-investigate-cross-burning-bridge-101915282.html deisenbe (talk) 16:42, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
ResolvedFlag
I have just added yesterday's prohibition by the Marine Corps of the Confederate flag. In the contest of the debate on Removal of Confederate monuments and memorials this is a huge step. But a flag is not a monument, and it's a symbol more than a memorial. Rather than moving the article again, I suggest, as with the gallery, that we wait a few days to see what else happens. There is going to be relevant legislative action somewhere, probably. deisenbe (talk) 08:42, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
- Confirmed. It's on the list. I added a more recent citation, too. Normal Op (talk) 23:01, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
ResolvedProposal to deal with Stone Mountain, Georgia
CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/10/opinions/stone-mountain-confederacy-monuments-white-supremacy-shepherd/index.html Stone Mountain and other monuments to the Confederacy should be wiped clean Opinion by George Shepherd , Updated 1:17 AM EDT, Wed June 10, 2020
This just takes my breath away. deisenbe (talk) 09:22, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- This is just an op-ed, not a news release. 10 days later, I'm not finding anything official on this topic. There are, however, comments in the Stone Mountain article about attempts to have this removed. Apparently it would need approval of the state legislature. Normal Op (talk) 02:03, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
ResolvedPlaques at University of Alabama
Protests Are Bringing Down Confederate Monuments Around The South DEBBIE ELLIOTT • JUN 9, 2020 https://www.wabe.org/protests-are-bringing-down-confederate-monuments-around-the-south/&ct=ga&cd=CAEYEyoTNDc3NTI0NTE3NzY0MjI0NjE5NjIaOGRmYjk0ZWNmZGIyOTZiNjpjb206ZW46VVM&usg=AFQjCNHUF0eOpicUuUyz6qOdGoq9HT-AUQ
deisenbe (talk) 09:30, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- Done. This was a better citation because it said the deed had already been done. (Rather than the ones which said it WILL get done.) Normal Op (talk) 04:06, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
ResolvedAsheville, North Carolina
City of Asheville passes resolution to remove Vance Monument, other Confederate monuments The move comes amid national protests over the death of George Floyd Jun 11, 2020 Madeleine Hackett https://www.wyff4.com/article/city-of-asheville-passes-resolution-to-remove-vance-monument-other-confederate-monuments/32830776#
deisenbe (talk) 16:26, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
- Deisenbe, Thank you. I've created a stub for Zebulon Baird Vance Monument. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:43, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
- @Norschweden: I believe the table still requires this addition. ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:14, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Done. I added Zebulon Baird Vance Monument to the list.
ResolvedHouston TX - statue of Columbus removed
Resolvedhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/goodbye-columbus-houston-removes-vandalized-statue-from-bell-park/ss-BB15Jze0
deisenbe (talk) 14:12, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- This would be Statue of Christopher Columbus (Houston) ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:34, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Statue has been added to the list. This section can be archived. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 06:14, 21 June 2020 (UTC) Post-archival comment: Wayback machine didn't like the link. If the webpage is ever lost, I saved an archive here [2]. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 06:33, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 21 June 2020
 | This edit request to List of monuments and memorials removed during the George Floyd protests has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Statue of Thomas Jefferson removed from Thomas Jefferson high school In Portland Oregon 2600:8800:2F00:7502:B149:A22F:4E7F:6C8D (talk) 03:20, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Jack Frost (talk) 04:26, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Jack Frost, This is already listed in the table. I am going to archive this section. ---Another Believer (Talk) 06:23, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
It's one county in Ireland. It's not very important in this context.
I changed this and it got changed back. Before edit warring I'd like to know if others support me. deisenbe (talk) 00:40, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Oriel College Oxford votes to remove Cecil Rhodes statue
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-k-firms-apologize-slave-154756490.html
How can I help?
There are a lot of cooks in this kitchen and I don't want to bump elbows with anyone.
deisenbe seems to be adding most of the new news announcements on the Talk page. Another Believer seems to be creating the statue stub pages. Several people are adding rows to the tables in the list. Another Believer seems to be the one archiving the 'done' Talk page segments.
New Talk page sections are being added faster than they are getting implemented on the list and archived from the Talk page.
Which job or jobs are not being handled well enough (or often enough) that need doing?
I could start taking the new deisenbe announcements and put them on the List page (without making a stub article for the monuments). Is that something that would be helpful to everyone? Or would I be stepping on someone's toes?
Normal Op (talk) 21:33, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Normal Op, I'm creating stubs and archiving sections here once I know the table has been updated appropriately. I don't mind if others want to help with these tasks, but I also don't think keeping up with either is a problem. Updating the table seems to be the biggest issue. If editors want to help by reviewing these talk page discussions, updating the table, and then marking the section as "resolved" and/or add a comment to note what's been done, then I'm happy to follow and assist with archiving. ---Another Believer (Talk) 21:37, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- I can do that. Thanks, AB. Normal Op (talk) 21:40, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Normal Op, Great, thanks! Another thing I'm trying to do is make sure the new stubs link back to List of monuments and memorials removed during the George Floyd protests via the navigation template (Template:Monuments and memorials removed during the George Floyd protests) and see also section, and also add Category:Monuments and memorials removed during the George Floyd protests. ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:08, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- I can do that. Thanks, AB. Normal Op (talk) 21:40, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Another Believer: Yeah, the kicker is when a decision has been made, but no action has yet been taken in real life. For example, Robert E. Lee Memorial (Roanoke, Virginia) (from the first section on this Talk page). A decision was made to start a legal process to get approval to remove a monument and rename the location. Does that qualify as being added to our "during the George Floyd protests" pages/categories/lists/templates, or not? Normal Op (talk) 22:16, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Normal Op, Other editors may disagree, but I think if the monument/whatever has been slated for removal and is mentioned in the table, then the category, template, and see also link are applicable. There may be some exceptions to this rule, but in general, I think we can assume removal is in process until confirmed otherwise. ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:24, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Another Believer: Yeah, the kicker is when a decision has been made, but no action has yet been taken in real life. For example, Robert E. Lee Memorial (Roanoke, Virginia) (from the first section on this Talk page). A decision was made to start a legal process to get approval to remove a monument and rename the location. Does that qualify as being added to our "during the George Floyd protests" pages/categories/lists/templates, or not? Normal Op (talk) 22:16, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Another Believer: Okay, so you think that our guideline should be "it's been decided because of the GF protests, therefore let's put it on the List". Correct me if I got that wrong. Normal Op (talk) 22:28, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Normal Op, My last comment was in reference to the 'intended to be removed but still standing' part of your question. Sorry for glossing over the GF part. I think some of the people currently pulling down monuments are not necessarily doing so as a direct response to GF's death. I'm sure we're getting to the point where some sources are mentioning the Black Lives Matter movement, or other reasons for pulling down monument (slave ownership, atrocities against indigenous people, for saying racist things, etc). If sources can be used to connect a removal to GF, then of course they should be included here, but we might also consider expanding the scope of the list if we're starting to lose the direct connection with GF. I'm very curious to hear from other editors here as well. I think we can all agree this has gone much beyond the initial removal of Confederate monuments. ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:37, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Another Believer: Okay, so you think that our guideline should be "it's been decided because of the GF protests, therefore let's put it on the List". Correct me if I got that wrong. Normal Op (talk) 22:28, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Another Believer: Argh! I added my first one (Robert E. Lee Memorial (Roanoke, Virginia)) and realized that the sort order is not specified. I'm not sure if I should put it at the end of the list (because I chose "after July 1" for removal date) or somewhere in the middle because the decision was made on June 5th. I swear I put the sort order into this article (as hidden text) earlier. Do you know the extant 'default sort order' for the tables? Normal Op (talk) 22:49, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Normal Op, If I'm being honest, I'm not following the decisions being made about sorting within the table. Related to the above question re: scope, this list is now covering more than just "monuments and memorials" at this point as well. I'm struggling to think of alternative page titles, though... ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:59, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Another Believer: Argh! I added my first one (Robert E. Lee Memorial (Roanoke, Virginia)) and realized that the sort order is not specified. I'm not sure if I should put it at the end of the list (because I chose "after July 1" for removal date) or somewhere in the middle because the decision was made on June 5th. I swear I put the sort order into this article (as hidden text) earlier. Do you know the extant 'default sort order' for the tables? Normal Op (talk) 22:49, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Another Believer: Okay. Let's just concentrate on getting the content INTO the article, then later it will probably become clear how we should split up the article or rename it or whatever. I'll just keep going down the Talk page list, one by one. Normal Op (talk) 23:04, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Here's something someone could do: archive the url's, as explained anove. deisenbe (talk) 00:46, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Deisenbe, I was waiting for the bare URLs to be converted, but seems someone else has archived all the URLs, so consider this Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:28, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Deisenbe, I was waiting for the bare URLs to be converted, but seems someone else has archived all the URLs, so consider this
The lede
ResolvedThe last sentence of the first paragraph now reads: "Most action is focused on monuments tied to the trans-Atlantic slave trade, the genocide of Native Americans, or other themes concerning racism both within and outside the United States."
This is flat-out wrong. Slavery in the United States, and the Confederacy, which is how this all started, and what the lede originally said, has now become "other themes concerning racism".
The trans-Atlantic slave trade is a secondary issue, and the "genocide of native Americans" is as well. deisenbe (talk) 16:30, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
- Deisenbe, then explain the 5 Christopher Columbus statues on the list. It may well have started about Confederacy/racism in the USA, but it has grown much wider. Normal Op (talk) 20:15, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
- The lede needs to be expanded to 3 or 4 paragraphs anyway. Taken all together, the theme is racial justice, but it should be noted that the monument removals started out with a focus on Confederate memorials and figures and later spread to non-US slavetraders and Christopher Columbus. gobonobo + c 05:54, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Columbus statues in Hartford and New Haven CT
Hartford and New Haven will remove statues honoring Christopher Columbus
David Owens By DAVID OWENS HARTFORD COURANT | JUN 15, 2020 | 8:11 PM
A town square in West Hartford named for a slaveowner will be renamed (not official, but clearly coming, no one's against it).
deisenbe (talk) 17:10, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
- I've created stubs for Statue of Christopher Columbus (Hartford, Connecticut) and Statue of Christopher Columbus (New Haven, Connecticut) ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:37, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Press mention of Wikipedia list
---Another Believer (Talk) 23:37, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
Confederate monument, University of Mississippi
IHL college board to approve relocating Confederate monument from heart of Ole Miss campus
Confederate flag no longer to fly in Kennesaw, Georgia
https://cobbcountycourier.com/2020/06/removal-confederate-flag-kennesaw/
https://cobbcountycourier.com/2020/06/confederate-flag-will-no-longer-fly-in-downtown-kennesaw-park/
deisenbe (talk) 13:44, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
Done
Forrest County, MS, Confederate statue to be removed
https://www.wjtv.com/video/forrest-county-confederate-statue-vote/5598291/
deisenbe (talk) 19:25, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
- From what I've read, they've approved a ballot issue for November rather than the removal of the monument. [3]. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 01:03, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Virginia Beach Confederate Monument
Virginia Beach city officials have taken steps to prevent any destruction or vandalism to the Confederate monument sitting at the Old Princess Anne County Courthouse. Acting City Manager Tom Leahy released a statement on Friday about his decision to cover the monument and erect a fence around it. On Saturday, the monument was completely covered and a locked gate was around the statue.
On July 1st, state code will officially change and grant the city power to remove, relocate and alter war memorials under its own authority. Leahy said he's scheduling a public hearing in July.
University of Virginia logo
[4] I'm not quite sure what exactly was changed (looks like color?). Spirit of Eagle (talk) 03:15, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- They removed the "squiggle" off the handle of the swords: "the old design featured two crossed sabres with serpentine handles. The handles were a reference to serpentine walls on the UVA campus that were originally constructed to keep enslaved people out of public view." You can see the squiggles more clearly in a previous news release [5]. Normal Op (talk) 05:00, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- It's possible that the squiggles are only two months old and that the "reversion" goes back to the original (pre-two months ago) version. "The Virginia athletics department has started the process of replacing the logos with new versions that return to straight-line handles." [6] Normal Op (talk) 05:03, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
ResolvedCall to remove Confederate statue, East Feliciana Parish, Louisiana
Delaware Law Enforcement Memorial
I'm not sure Delaware Law Enforcement Memorial belongs in this list. The guy who was arrested for damaging the statue was "unaffiliated with recent Black Lives Matter protests". [7] gobonobo + c 13:05, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
- I'd say remove it. The article makes it very clear that the individual is not with BLM, whether it be officially or in an associational manner. Plus, whenever we've seen attacks on monuments that were connected with the protests, there were usually large crowds associated with BLM protests or some other organization rather than a single unaffiliated individual. This strikes me as contemporaneous vandalism rather than a direct result of the protests. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 17:24, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
ResolvedIt's already on the list, I see. Normal Op (talk) 04:04, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Russell, Ontario
Russell, Ontario is expected to change it's name after a June 15 council meeting. I was about to put it up because the article makes it seem like a done deal, but I'll just put it here to be watched out for. Remind me in two days. Kire1975 (talk) 15:05, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
- @Kire1975: it looks like the township is not planning to change its name, but merely its namesake. interestingly, the article also says that King County in Washington did the same in 1986. dying (talk) 18:00, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
ResolvedHow to remove the blue?
ResolvedThe JD Memorial in Richmond has been toppled for a couple of days now. Every time I try to remove the blue in the list, I fail. Please advise. Kire1975 (talk) 08:31, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
- Resolved. It looks like the section was manually coded to be blue (specifically, there was a bunch of code making it blue in the "break" section before the name of the statue). Coding has been removed, and the section is no longer blue. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 18:26, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
- @Spirit of Eagle: thanks. Now how about the JD statue in Frankfort? I'd ask again for an explanation fo how to do it myself, but it sounds complicated. Thanks again. Kire1975 (talk) 20:37, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
- I've removed the blue from there as well. Here's the diff from my first change. You just have to remove a tiny bit of code located in the section above the specific statue's name. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 20:42, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
- I definitely tried that before but it removed the whole row on me, but it looks like you left a hyphen next to the | and I didn't do that. Duly noted. Thanks. Kire1975 (talk) 21:11, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
- Instructions now available at Template:RM row. Normal Op (talk) 20:40, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
- I definitely tried that before but it removed the whole row on me, but it looks like you left a hyphen next to the | and I didn't do that. Duly noted. Thanks. Kire1975 (talk) 21:11, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
- I've removed the blue from there as well. Here's the diff from my first change. You just have to remove a tiny bit of code located in the section above the specific statue's name. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 20:42, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
- @Spirit of Eagle: thanks. Now how about the JD statue in Frankfort? I'd ask again for an explanation fo how to do it myself, but it sounds complicated. Thanks again. Kire1975 (talk) 20:37, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Stained glass window, church in Boise ID
Resolveddeisenbe (talk) 23:58, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
I've added the window to the article. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 04:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Clarksville MS monument removed
ResolvedConfederate memorial monument, bridge sign removed by city of Clarksville Jimmy Settle, Clarksville Leaf-Chronicle 14 hrs ago
deisenbe (talk) 10:12, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
- FYI, the city is located in Tennessee rather than Missouri. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 05:00, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Monument and sign added to list; archive away. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 05:08, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Cathedral of the Rockies
ResolvedThe Cathedral of the Rockies in Boise, Idaho has announced they are removing a stained glass window of Robert E. Lee in response to the killing of George Floyd (see here.) Does this belong in this list? -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 22:50, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, the stained glass window has been added to the symbols and insignia section. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 04:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Jefferson Davis monument, Richmond
Anyone know what the statue on the top is of? Because it and the column are still there. deisenbe (talk) 11:56, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- i was actually wondering that myself, and quickly gave up when i couldn't find it in wikipedia. anyway, i went digging for a bit since i now know i'm not the only one interested, and found this site which says it is a "female figure cast in bronze" and that "literature created for the statue dedication in 1907" stated that she is a representation of "the Vindicatrix ... the emblem of Southern womanhood ... the immortal spirit of her land
,shining unquenched within her eyes, and her hand uplifted in an eternal appeal to the God of justice and truth". dying (talk) 13:56, 21 June 2020 (UTC) - i found another source that used one less comma, resulting in a description which made more sense to me, so i've crossed out the questionable comma above. it admittedly looks a little weird since the comma is so small, so a crossed-out comma by itself looks like a comma with a macron on top. dying (talk) 14:40, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Sounds like a Confederate version of Columbia. gobonobo + c 14:01, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- i did too. however, she apparently wasn't used as often as columbia is, as i couldn't easily find any other times she was used as a symbol of the south. also, she might have been first conceived after the war, as a monument avenue commission report states (at the bottom of page 20), "The name of the allegorical figure on top of the column behind Davis, Vindicatrix, was based on the word vindicate—reinforcing the goals of the Lost Cause". dying (talk) 14:40, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Sounds like a Confederate version of Columbia. gobonobo + c 14:01, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Look at the text on the plaques on the sides.Jefferson Davis Memorial (Richmond, Virginia) Hard to find a photo, especially the one on the right, to copy the text from. Horrible emotion, feeling of humiliation, but the worst English I've ever seen on a monument. Probably a patriotic female who didn't have too much "schooling". Punctuation is unchanged (a decision I made) but capitalization and brackets are from yours truly, I'm a professional editor, among otter things. deisenbe (talk) 22:02, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Call to remove Confederate monuments and street names in Charlotte NC
North Carolina Capitol statues coming down - governor breaks the law (that's my comment)
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/nc-governor-orders-removal-confederate-statues-raleigh-71364600
Richland Hills TX - eliminating school Rebel mascot and imagery
https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/06/19/district-votes-change-richland-high-school-rebel-mascot/
Raleigh NC - two Confederate statues torn down, one hung from rope
https://abc11.com/raleigh-protest-confederate-monument-juneteenth-nc-capitol/6256848/
Semi-protected edit request on 20 June 2020
| | This edit request to List of monuments and memorials removed during the George Floyd protests has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
All of the state flags have been removed from the Bay St. Louis Ms offical buildings due to the Confederate flag. 2600:1702:3340:AD20:39A3:BDEA:F5FF:4510 (talk) 01:59, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 03:35, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Here's one: Does your city fly the state flag? Here’s which Coast cities do and which ones don’t
Normal Op (talk) 04:06, 20 June 2020 (UTC)Bay St. Louis – DOES NOT fly the state flag. Bay St. Louis became the second city on the Gulf Coast this week to stop flying the state flag. In a quiet vote on June 16, 2020, the city council discussed the state flag and decided to stop flying it.
- @Normal Op: In that case you could WP:FIXIT, even though confederate flags don't look like "monuments" or "memorials" to me... RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 18:32, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- RandomCanadian, I am working on some other lists, including this one that has few to no one else working on it. There are enough cooks in this kitchen that you're bumping elbows (edit conflicts while editing). I was just answering the "citation, please!" remark. Normal Op (talk) 18:44, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- @Normal Op: In that case you could WP:FIXIT, even though confederate flags don't look like "monuments" or "memorials" to me... RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 18:32, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
- Here's one: Does your city fly the state flag? Here’s which Coast cities do and which ones don’t
Call to take down statues of William Floyd and Robert Moses, on Long Island
William Floyd: slaveowner. "Organizers of the petition to remove the Robert Moses statue say he left behind a legacy of prejudice and targeted the Black and Jewish communities and then supported tactics that led to housing segregation on the Island."
Statue of Columbus in San Antonio TX to be removed, Columbus Park to be renamed Piazza Italia
(This one is relatively definite.)
San Antonio Councilman Pushes Plan To Remove Christopher Columbus Statue
https://www.ktsa.com/san-antonio-councilman-calls-for-removal-of-christopher-columbus-statue/
deisenbe (talk) 21:06, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
- I've created Statue of Christopher Columbus (San Antonio) ---Another Believer (Talk) 04:11, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Call to remove statue of Junípero Serra, Ventura, California
deisenbe (talk) 18:34, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Done I see it's already on the list. Normal Op (talk) 06:00, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Lafayette, Louisiana, statue of Confederate General Mouton
Lafayette's troubled legacy of Confederate General Alfred Mouton and his statue Victoria Dodge, Lafayette Daily Advertiser Published 11:10 a.m. CT June 13, 2020
deisenbe (talk) 18:30, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
- This is just renewed interest to get this statue removed. There's even a lawsuit going on to get it removed. [8] However, the main barrier is an injunction ("For the city to move the statute, a judge must lift a permanent injunction that was issued in 1980 at the request of the United Daughters of the Confederacy's Alfred Mouton Chapter, which donated the monument to the city in 1922."). Until that happens, this statue is going nowhere (officially). Normal Op (talk) 06:10, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Call to remove statue of Confederate general Lawrence Sullivan Ross, Texas A&M University
Confederate general Lawrence Sullivan Ross --
https://www.tmz.com/2020/06/18/ryan-tannehill-kellen-mond-demand-remove-statue-texas-a-and-m-campus/
Statue of Lincoln in Boston
The objection is not to Lincoln, but to how a black is portrayed in this statue.
https://www.wbur.org/news/2020/06/13/boston-lincoln-statue-remove
deisenbe (talk) 18:15, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
- Deisenbe, I believe this is a copy of the Emancipation Memorial ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:06, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Call to remove statue of President William Henry Harrison in Cincinnati
I'm starting to put in here proposals on which no action has been taken as of date.
Call to remove statue of Thomas Jefferson, U. of Missouri
University says it will not remove statue.
Marin [County, California] petition: Remove Sir Francis Drake statue, rename boulevard
Call to remove Confederate statue, Athens AL
Don't confuse with separate proposal re Athens GA
how to deal with Jacksonville
Jacksonville announced they will be removing every confederate monument and marker in the city. these are:
already removed
- The Confederate Monument in Hemming Park.
monuments and memorials to be removed
- The Monument to the Women of the Southland (Monument to the Women of the Confederacy) In Confederate Park in Springfield.
- The Grandstand - Confederate Memorial Services at the Old City Cemetery.
markers to be removed
- The Maple Leaf marker on the Northbank Riverwalk.
- The Maple Leaf marker at the Walter Jones Historical Park in Mandarin.
- The Florida Confederate Soldiers and Sailors Home marker in the Old City Cemetery.
- The Line of Entrenchment marker on the the southwest corner of the old Jacksonville Terminal at the Prime Osborn Convention Center.
- The Skirmish At ceder Creek marker on Lenox Avenue near Ceder Creek.
- The 1914 United Confederate Veteran’s Reunion marker in Confederate Park.
- The informational and tree signs at Camp Milton Historic Preserve.
- The In Memory of Our Beloved Ancestors marker at the Old Center Cemetery.
i have added the already removed memorial and am working on adding the two planned to be removed, but I am unsure how to deal with the markers. They re not truly "memorials or monuments" in the grand scheme of the term, but kind of their own category. I'm also wary of adding yet another category of types of things removed as it is getting a little unwieldy, but maybe a new "markers" section makes the most sense? SOudl we change the symbols section to "symbols, insignia, and markers"? Basically I am just unsure where to put the 8 markers in the article. Thoughts?Found5dollar (talk) 22:12, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
- I would have no objection to creating a new section for historical markers. If you want to condense, you could just list “Jacksonville historical markers” as the thing removed and then summarize the various markers in the description section. I did this with language on historical plaques being removed from the University of Alabama. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 02:26, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- Found5dollar, I believe Florida's Tribute to the Women of the Confederacy is the article for the second bullet you shared above. ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:27, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- Another Believer: yes you were correct about Florida's Tribute to the Women of the Confederacy being the second bullet point. I confirmed that. Normal Op (talk) 00:00, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Another Believer: The last remaining thing to do for this section would be to make a stub page for the third bullet point and add its wikilink onto its entry in the List: Grandstand – Confederate Memorial Services (1926) in Old City Cemetery (Jacksonville, Florida), placed By: Martha Reid Chapter No. 19, United Daughters of the Confederacy, United Confederate Veterans (R.E. Lee Camp No. 58) Sons of the Confederate Veterans (Stonewall Jackson Camp No. 83)[1]
Sources
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Re: National Statuary Hall Collection
---Another Believer (Talk) 02:37, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- So far it's just talk from one person (not in charge). Nothing has been done, nor decided. Quote: "Rep. Barbara Lee, D-Calif., a senior member of the Congressional Black Caucus, plans to reintroduce legislation on Thursday to do the same on Capitol Hill, removing the roughly 10 statues associated with the Confederacy from the National Statuary Hall Collection." Normal Op (talk) 01:10, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Though the 10 statues aren't named in the article, they seem to be listed out here: List of Confederate monuments and memorials#United States Capitol. Normal Op (talk) 17:49, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Sort?
In the table, are we sorting the "Statue of ..." entries by "S" for "Statue", or should we sort by subject's last name. @Ham II: Do you know of a convention based on public art lists? ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:29, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- Chronological order by date of creation is what I usually use in public art lists, but I don't think that would work as well here. I'm not keen on the idea of sorting by article title, either – "Jefferson Davis Memorial" under "J", "Statue of Frank Rizzo" under "S", etc. I've no objection to sorting by surname, but how about sorting alphabetically by state (or by country if outside the U.S.), then by city? Ham II (talk) 19:49, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- @Another Believer and Ham II: Each column is sortable, so the question is just what order to use when sorting the name column. I think it makes sense to sort with "The" eliminated, surname if a statue of a person, etc. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 22:58, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- AlanM1, Yeah, I'm leaning towards sorting by the first letter of first prominent word within monument titles, and surname for busts and statues. ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:05, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- @Another Believer and Ham II: Each column is sortable, so the question is just what order to use when sorting the name column. I think it makes sense to sort with "The" eliminated, surname if a statue of a person, etc. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 22:58, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
I can't really tell how the entries are sorted currently... ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:02, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
- However we decide to sort, should the default sort column be the first displayed in the table? @Featous: Pinging you since you just sorted by removal date. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:06, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry all! I didn't realize there was a discussion.
- I got annoyed that I couldn't figure out what the default sort order was. To my mind - I want to know when stuff happened and, failing that, when people decided to do stuff. This seems the easiest way to see how Columbus and non-Confederate slave owner statues are coming into play over time. So I did Removal as the first priority, and then Removal announced as the second priority. An announced removal without actual removal would be the last entry under an actual removal date under this scheme. I am not wedded to this by any means, and mainly did it in a pique of OCD. Cheers, Featous (talk) 17:17, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
New category: Dishonoured statues
I just discovered Category:Dishonoured statues. Seems a lot of removed Confederate statues should be added, no? ---Another Believer (Talk) 04:56, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
- It seems a little subjective and unlikely to stand up to scrutiny if larger attention is drawn to it (if what it is meant to contain is "statues torn down by mobs," it will intersect with this list but not everything on this list will belong in it). Personally I was wondering about creating Category:Monuments and memorials removed during the George Floyd protests as a subcat of Category:2020 disestablishments or something. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 06:24, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
- Roscelese, I agree, the category is subjective and possibly non-neutral. This can be discussed further at WikiProject Sculpture. I'm not opposed to a subcategory specific to George Floyd protests. ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:12, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Temporary removals should still be treated as removals
By definition, a monument has still been removed even if it has been replaced in its original position. This is not a technicality; the fact that a notable monument which stood in place for over a century is removed is a significant fact, particularly when the removal gets national media coverage or was done by protestors rather than the city. I believe that we should place these monuments in there own section if they do go back into their original position, but I do not believe these monuments should be removed entirely from the article. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 18:50, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- The Baden Powell one does not belong on here as it is not being removed at all now. It is being covered up instead. Not sure what you mean on the rest. Not sure what another believer is playing at especially when he read on the article that it was being boarded up. Games of the world (talk) 18:58, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Games of the world, Do not revert me again until we come to a consensus here, please. Thanks. -19:07, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- There is not a discussion going on. If you are just going to threat I will have you blocked. Please remember to be civil and that includes threatening others and instead of reverting saying take it to talk how about you come with a proper reason. Since you have yet to give one and don't want to discuss, stop threatening and warring with others. Games of the world (talk) 19:41, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Games of the world, By all means, please try to have me blocked... I have not made any threats, I've merely asked you to discuss on the talk page because I disagree with the change you made to the page. This is standard Wikipedia editing. I'll let someone else work with you because I'm not interested in edit warring -- too many other things to focus on right now. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:44, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- You have no intention of discussing anything of the sort with me, that's not standard wikipedia behaviour and i will let other user deal with your uncivil behaviour. Games of the world (talk) 19:51, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- ...cool... Anyone else want to chime in re: inclusion of temporary removals? ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:56, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- You have no intention of discussing anything of the sort with me, that's not standard wikipedia behaviour and i will let other user deal with your uncivil behaviour. Games of the world (talk) 19:51, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Games of the world, By all means, please try to have me blocked... I have not made any threats, I've merely asked you to discuss on the talk page because I disagree with the change you made to the page. This is standard Wikipedia editing. I'll let someone else work with you because I'm not interested in edit warring -- too many other things to focus on right now. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:44, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- There is not a discussion going on. If you are just going to threat I will have you blocked. Please remember to be civil and that includes threatening others and instead of reverting saying take it to talk how about you come with a proper reason. Since you have yet to give one and don't want to discuss, stop threatening and warring with others. Games of the world (talk) 19:41, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Games of the world, Do not revert me again until we come to a consensus here, please. Thanks. -19:07, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
I don't believe in suffering in advance, or fixing what isn't broke. There is nothing to decide right now. The time to discuss it, as I see it, is when one of these temporary removals is reinstalled. deisenbe (talk) 20:56, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Per this discussion, editors decided to add mention of the Statue of Robert Baden-Powell. User:Games of the world is going against consensus until editors decide otherwise. ---Another Believer (Talk) 21:31, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- If your not going to bring anything to the table, then don't comment. I am not going against the consensus, the situation changed something that you seem to be ignoring, it was going to be removed temporarily, then after protest and the fact that someone in their wisdom dug the foundations too deep, it has been decided that it will stay and will be boarded up in the meantime. Thus any so called consensus from 2 editors, which is not a consensus in the first place, is void due to the situation change and therefore is not a temporary removal. But you already know that, you just have no intention of engaging in a constructive way. Games of the world (talk) 22:38, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Greenville n.c. Confederate courthouse monument to be removed
https://www.witn.com/content/news/Pitt-County-Board-of-Commissioners-vote-to-remove-Confederate-statue-571280041.html deisenbe (talk)
- I added it to the List (Confederate Statue at Courthouse/Greenville/North Carolina). If Another Believer wants to make a stub for the monument, then that's the last step. Normal Op (talk) 08:02, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Newport News Confederate monument
Shrouded; to go after July 1.
Missing citations
The ref column column in this list appears to have been possibly vandalized? Hopefully it's just an error. Kire1975 (talk) 21:26, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
- Someone added a “date erected” column which messed up the citation section. This looks like a good faith edit. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 22:16, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
- I think that the column should be reverted and the table should be returned to normal. The edit has busted the reference column and will make adding additional monuments even more tedious. I will carry this out later tonight if there are no objections. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 00:05, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
I have removed the erection dates. This was information added by a single editor without gaining consensus and which messed up the table display. I have no objection to this information being re-added, but we should really try to have a uniform format and clean additions to the table. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 01:57, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
Opinion: New headings for conquistadors don't fit with the topics of George Floyd and BLM
I don't think separating the lists into categories for conquistadors, Juan de Oñate or slave traders is necessary or helpful, and it is unnecessarily breaking up the page. I understand that confederate/nonconfederate is an appropriate and worthwhile separation, and Christopher Columbus has become "a thing" and has enough entries to make a separate category. However, the other "categories" are not sufficiently filled as to be worthwhile on the page.
This page started out to cover statues/monuments related to George Floyd protests, Black Lives Matter, and other civil rights for African Americans. The Native Americans' complaint against statues of Christopher Columbus are an interesting piggy-back and an understandable extension of this sort of civil rights movement — and though it also deserves coverage, does it belong on a page labeled for George Floyd? Are we on the path to getting this page renamed, or will the page get split to accommodate both topics? Has the removal of Christopher Columbus (and pioneer/settler) monuments become their own movement? Until such time as the page gets split or renamed, the structure and focus of the article needs to mirror the title. (In other words, what are conquistadors as relates to George Floyd or BLM?)
See Wikipedia:Article titles, Wikipedia:Splitting.
Just putting out thoughts that have recently occurred while working on this page.
— Normal Op (talk) 01:15, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- I believe the page is appropriate as is. The attacks on and the removal of the Columbus statues were undeniably catalyzed by the George Floyd protests. I also don't think it would be appropriate for us to distinguish the difference between a removal directly caused by the Floyd protests and removals that piggy-backed off the protests. This would require a lot of original research on our part and the drawing of a line which I doubt even exists. (I've personally studied civil unrest and mass protests in college; they are by their very nature unpredictable and liable to mutate in their demands, targets and goals. That the protests have branched out into other targets beyond the Confederacy and catalyzed allied movements is not an abnormality, but something quite common). I have no real opinion on the sub-categories. I think they are appropriate when a certain category of statue has become a common target, but don't see the need to create a bunch of them with only two or three monuments in them. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 02:07, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- I think we're too early to see how this will all shake out, but I agree with Spirit of Eagle that it's hard to see how the the various indigenous-related removals can be cleanly extricated from the context of the Floyd protests. It seems that every Floyd protest incorporates the local issue of systemic racism, which is why protesters in Paris are chanting for Adama Traoré and protests in Australia are focusing on the deaths of Aborigines in police custody. It's all tremendously messy, but the clearly all stems from the Floyd protests. So I don't think that there is a strong structural argument for why the various indigenous-related removals in New Zealand and the U.S. shouldn't stay here. (And then there's the outlier case of King Leopold-removals for his violent subjugation of blacks as indigenous people in the Belgian Congo.) In the interests of page length as more items get added, I could see a List of Christoper Columbus monuments removed during the George Floyd protests split, but I'd be wary of disassociating the Columbus removals from the Floyd protests. Just my two cents, Featous (talk) 17:07, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Columbus was not a conquistador, Spanish historians would agree
First one usually said to be Hernán Cortés, 1519-1521. deisenbe (talk) 16:54, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- OK. They seemed a logical pairing. Is there a common name that would better suit them? Konli17 (talk) 17:00, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- Judging from the articles on the Columbus statues which go into any depth – those on the Richmond, Saint Paul, Boston (North End), Wilmington and San Francisco statues, and at least one of the two in Columbus, Ohio – his Italian connection is what got them erected. That might not be the case for the sculptural group with Queen Isabella in Sacramento, but for the most part Italian American communities or individuals seem to have been behind initiatives to commemorate Columbus.
- We have articles titled Confederate States of America, European colonization of the Americas and Atlantic slave trade for the topics which make these monuments controversial, and I think that those would be good titles for the sections as well. Ham II (talk) 07:29, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Subsection for Virginia
There's now a subsection for Virginia under CSA. 1) Should we keep the subsection, and 2) if so, shall we remove the "U.S. state" column? ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:33, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Call to remove Confederate monument, Weatherford TX
Call to remove traces of Confederacy, specifically Robert E. Lee, from West Point
Also request "that Stonewall Jackson Drive and General Lee Avenue at an Army installation in Brooklyn be renamed."
https://news.yahoo.com/congressman-remove-confederate-traces-west-184038416.html
Call to remove Doak Campbell stadium, FSU, Tallahassee
He was FSU first President, anti-integration
Call to remove Confederate monument, Florida capitol, Tallahassee
In same article, call to rename FSU law school building, named for B.K. Roberts, anti-integration
Ststue of Teddy Roosevelt, Museum of Natural History, New York
Vandalized but decision to remove not made yet.
Separate call to remove Jefferson statue in city council chambers
deisenbe (talk) 17:53, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
- Decision made : https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/21/american-museum-natural-history-new-york-teddy-roosevelt deisenbe (talk) 08:15, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Ststue of Mahatma Gandhi in Leicester U.K.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/13/protesters-demand-removal-of-mahatma-gandhi-statue-in-england/
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-53025407
Decision NOT made yet.
No action on 2019 request Manchester.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-50062791
Gandhi statue removed 2018 University of Ghana.
https://nypost.com/2018/12/17/gandhis-racist-words-lead-to-statue-taken-down-in-ghana/
Renaming Robert E. Lee bridge in Richmond
HBO pulls Gone with the Wind from catalog
deisenbe (talk) 09:40, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- I added that to George Floyd protests#Media industry. -- Beland (talk) 01:09, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Gobe with the Wind a Confederate monument. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/06/12/gone-with-wind-is-also-confederate-monument-film-instead-stone/ deisenbe (talk) 11:49, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
"Temporary" removals
The SCV and some others have said monuments, flag, etc., are removed "temporarily" so as to avoid their destruction by protestors. Or "for repairs", in Antwerp. (https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/vandalized-statue-king-leopold-ii-093733813.html) That saves them face, but I think it's pretty doubtful that any of these will ever be put back. deisenbe (talk) 16:52, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
- Even if the statues, flags, etc. are put back in place, they were still by definition removed during the George Floyd protests. If a statue is later put back to about the same position, I think it still belongs in the article (but perhaps in its own section away from the permanently removed stuff). My argument may come off as a technicality, but I think it is greatly significant that notable things located in the same place for all of living history were suddenly moved at great expense and to great commotion. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 22:15, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Name changes to watch
- In Walpole, calls to dump ‘Rebels’ nickname gain traction - Walpole, Massachusetts
- Is Marty Walsh bending on the prospect of renaming Faneuil Hall? - Faneuil Hall
-- Beland (talk) 01:16, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Beland, Thanks for the heads up. ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:15, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Walpole Rebels are no more; adding to article. -- Beland (talk) 18:15, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Done Walpole has been added to the list. Faneuil is only in petition stage (and has been for years). Normal Op (talk) 16:45, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
U.K.: Robert Clayton and Thomas Guy
We absolutely recognise the public hurt and anger that is generated by the symbolism of public statues of historical figures associated with the slave trade in some way.
"We have therefore decided to remove statues of Robert Clayton and Thomas Guy from public view, and we look forward to engaging with and receiving guidance from the Mayor of London's Commission on each."
The NHS foundation trust added there are no plans to change the names of the hospitals.
The trust also said the removal of the statues will most likely "take a few weeks" due to the "size, age and listed status" of the monuments.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/guys-st-thomas-hospitals-remove-statues-linked-slavery-195400301.html
deisenbe (talk) 10:27, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Deisenbe, There are pages for Statue of Robert Clayton and Statue of Thomas Guy. ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:08, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Yoy're going to put them in the table? I'm kind of disheartened with the table. deisenbe (talk) 13:11, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Deisenbe, I've been creating new pages over updating the table. @Norschweden: Do you care to update the table with these entries as well? ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:17, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Yoy're going to put them in the table? I'm kind of disheartened with the table. deisenbe (talk) 13:11, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- If I could put it
back the way I had it — https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_monuments_and_memorials_removed_during_the_George_Floyd_protests&oldid=961278055— in some text form I'd work on it. I don't like adding text that has a high risk of being drleted. deisenbe (talk) 13:21, 12 June 2020 (UTC)- Deisenbe, I understand. I don't see the table being removed but that's for editors to decide collectively. ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:35, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Could the article be split, one fork text, one table? deisenbe (talk) 13:37, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Deisenbe, I'm not sure why we'd need 2 pages about monuments and memorials removed during the George Floyd protests. ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:25, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Because some items, IMHO, need commentary or detail that doesn't fit the table format. deisenbe (talk) 16:09, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- I disagree. There's room for a very simple explanation of each monument's removal. Additional details belong on the respective entries for individual monuments. If you want to make your case to other editors, I suggest creating a new section, or moving this discussion to one re: tables. This section is about specific UK monuments. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:11, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- We have lists and articles that cover the same topic all the time. @Deisenbe: If you are interested in creating prose around this topic, please take a look at Actions against memorials in the United Kingdom during the George Floyd protests. I think we could use an article like that for the whole shebang. Lists are really great for exploratory browsing but can't hold a candle to the context and detail present in good articles. gobonobo + c 05:39, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
- I disagree. There's room for a very simple explanation of each monument's removal. Additional details belong on the respective entries for individual monuments. If you want to make your case to other editors, I suggest creating a new section, or moving this discussion to one re: tables. This section is about specific UK monuments. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:11, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Because some items, IMHO, need commentary or detail that doesn't fit the table format. deisenbe (talk) 16:09, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Deisenbe, I'm not sure why we'd need 2 pages about monuments and memorials removed during the George Floyd protests. ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:25, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Could the article be split, one fork text, one table? deisenbe (talk) 13:37, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- Deisenbe, I understand. I don't see the table being removed but that's for editors to decide collectively. ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:35, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- If I could put it
Description unwieldly
Deisenbe has raised the issue that the Description column, because of the length of its contents in some entries, makes the table ugly. I agree, and imagine it's particularly unwieldly on small screens. I have a couple of suggestions:
I'd move the descriptions to footnotes below the table, then, but that still doesn't seem right. If you're going to do it, though, I'd use {{Efn-lr}} after the Monument name and {{notelist-lr}} in a Description sub-section below each table to at least keep them together. I suggest the -lr versions, which use lower-case roman numerals so they are not confused with normal numbered refs.
Now, I've also seen tables where each item takes two lines, with the first line having several columns (all the non-description columns) and the second line having the long description field spanning several columns, like the following. This may be an WP:ACCESSIBILITY problem and require some tweaking, but I think it's better than moving them out of the table completely:
| Monument/Memorial | City | U.S. state | Removal announced | Removed | Means of removal | Ref | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Description | |||||||
| Appomattox | 
|
Alexandria | Virginia | "Been in discussions for some time" | May 31 | Removed by United Daughters of the Confederacy | [1] |
| The removal, illegal under Virginia law, was already planned, but was awaiting the July 1 effective date of the new statute making the removal of Confederate monuments legal in the state. The owner, United Daughters of the Confederacy, moved the date up because of the protests. The city provided traffic control. | |||||||
| Athens Confederate Monument | 
|
Athens | Georgia | June 2 | – | Plans for removal by City | [2] |
| The mayor and city commissioners announced plans to remove the monument. | |||||||
| Bentonville Confederate Monument | 
|
Bentonville | Arkansas | June 1 | – | Plans for removal by United Daughters of the Confederacy | [3] |
| Removal announced during protests | |||||||
| Bust of Robert E. Lee | – | Ft. Myers | Florida | June 1 | June 1 | Removed by Sons of Confederate Veterans | [4] |
| A bust of Robert E. Lee was temporarily removed from downtown Ft. Myers by its owner, the Sons of Confederate Veterans. | |||||||
Extending this further, move the "Means of removal" down to the second row as well:
| Monument/Memorial | City | U.S. state | Removal announced | Removed | Ref | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Means of removal | Description | |||||
| Appomattox |
|
Alexandria | Virginia | "Been in discussions for some time" | May 31 | [1] |
| Removed by United Daughters of the Confederacy | The removal, illegal under Virginia law, was already planned, but was awaiting the July 1 effective date of the new statute making the removal of Confederate monuments legal in the state. The owner, United Daughters of the Confederacy, moved the date up because of the protests. The city provided traffic control. | |||||
| Athens Confederate Monument |
|
Athens | Georgia | June 2 | – | [2] |
| Plans for removal by City | The mayor and city commissioners announced plans to remove the monument. | |||||
| Bentonville Confederate Monument |
|
Bentonville | Arkansas | June 1 | – | [3] |
| Plans for removal by United Daughters of the Confederacy | Removal announced during protests | |||||
| Bust of Robert E. Lee | – | Ft. Myers | Florida | June 1 | June 1 | [4] |
| Removed by Sons of Confederate Veterans | A bust of Robert E. Lee was temporarily removed from downtown Ft. Myers by its owner, the Sons of Confederate Veterans. | |||||
—[AlanM1 (talk)]— 14:34, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- I totally feel the issue with the table getting unwieldy. I like the idea of moving the description to a second row instead of a column, but i don't really now know how to correct the accessibility issues it introduces. Another option may just be to lock the column widths to give the Description section more area so it keeps the rows narrower. something like this possible:
| Monument/Memorial | City | U.S. state | Removal announced | Removed | Means of removal | Description | Ref | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Appomattox |
|
Alexandria | Virginia | "Been in discussions for some time" | May 31 | Removed by United Daughters of the Confederacy | The removal, illegal under Virginia law, was already planned, but was awaiting the July 1 effective date of the new statute. The owner, United Daughters of the Confederacy, moved the date up because of the protests. The city provided traffic control. | 1 |
| Athens Confederate Monument |
|
Athens | Georgia | June 2 | – | Plans for removal by City | The mayor and city commissioners announced plans to remove the monument. | 2 |
| Bentonville Confederate Monument |
|
Bentonville | Arkansas | June 1 | – | Plans for removal by United Daughters of the Confederacy | Removal announced during protests | 3 |
| Bust of Robert E. Lee | – | Ft. Myers | Florida | June 1 | June 1 | Removed by Sons of Confederate Veterans | A bust of Robert E. Lee was temporarily removed from downtown Ft. Myers by its owner, the Sons of Confederate Veterans. | 4 |
- I also think the descriptions can likely be pared back in some of the longer ones, I originally just copied what was written over but the descriptions do not necessarily need to be so detailed. This just shifting of the column widths could be a temporary fix until we figure out how to do two columns with out accessibility issues.Found5dollar (talk) 15:48, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- I would also recommend that a template (e.g. List of monuments and memorials removed during the George Floyd protests/Entry) be used for each entry to avoid the inevitable editing mistakes that tend to happen with more complicated table markup. Makes the conversion easier, too, replacing each
|-with}}{{/Entry(except eliminate the closing braces from the first one and add closing braces before the table close). This makes tweaking the layout easier in the future, too. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 16:45, 10 June 2020 (UTC)- Also, consider removing the "Removal announced" and "Removed" columns. Couldn't we just note these dates in the description? This would give more space for more important features... years from now, people won't care exactly which day the statue was removed, or if they do care, they can read the description and/or Wikipedia article about the specific monument. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:09, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- I'd second a template. The current table mark-up is incredibly tedious and time-consuming. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 23:33, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- Also, consider removing the "Removal announced" and "Removed" columns. Couldn't we just note these dates in the description? This would give more space for more important features... years from now, people won't care exactly which day the statue was removed, or if they do care, they can read the description and/or Wikipedia article about the specific monument. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:09, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
- I would also recommend that a template (e.g. List of monuments and memorials removed during the George Floyd protests/Entry) be used for each entry to avoid the inevitable editing mistakes that tend to happen with more complicated table markup. Makes the conversion easier, too, replacing each
Revising table structure
Following the discussion on unwieldy descriptions I've been thinking about the types of information we can include in the tables given limited space. In a list like this, I think we should be linking to the person a statue depicts (where applicable). I'd also like to see geocoordinates. To make room, I propose we remove the 'removal announced' column, either moving that content to the 'removed' column or the 'description' column. I also propose removing the 'ref' column and moving references inline to the description. Then I propose that we create a 'Depicts' column and start listing geocoordinates directly below the city.
For the US table I want to get feedback on combining the city and state columns (and how to sort it). I'm torn on 'method of removal'. It seems like we're using this column to indicate which governmental body or organization has decided on its removal (which isn't really a method per se) or whether it was toppled by protesters. I'd suggest some fun icons for toppling statues like what used to exist in the list of helicopter prison escapes, but I doubt that would fly. Thoughts? gobonobo + c 06:48, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
- Except that the geo coordinates will change for every statue that is MOVED (not removed). I checked all the confed statues in Kentucky and most of them didn't have geo coords listed on their articles. The Easting and northing coords listed in the 1997 Multiple Property Submission to the National Register of Historic Places wasn't always accurate... or rather the conversion programs out there (to convert eastings to coords) weren't always right. I gave up on completing the task yesterday. Normal Op (talk) 16:11, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'm thinking city/state refers to where a monument was before it was removed. If it it later moved to a different jurisdiction, we wouldn't want to change those values. Ideally, coordinates could be used to map all of the locations prior to removal. Something like the table at List of public art in Strand, London. gobonobo + c 16:49, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- I like the idea of combining the city and state together. I recommend displaying them as "Nashville, Tennessee" but listing the sort order "Tennessee, Nashville". Sort order in tables can be defined with code. You would do it this way:
- |data-sort-value="Tennessee, Nashville" |[[Nashville]], Tennessee
- See article List of fatal snake bites in Australia for an example. In the first table, there is a sort order defined for the date as well as for the name of the person. You could put the geo coords directly under the city, state and name the column "Location". No one is going to need to "sort" on geo coords". Normal Op (talk) 16:25, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
- Whatever is decided, if sortkeys and spans are going to be used, it will definitely be more maintainable if a template is used for each row. I'll try to play with that soon, barring any objection, unless someone else wants to do it. The template can then be changed to do whatever is needed, consistently, instead of having to edit each row. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 23:53, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
- Description column is currently mixed between explaining how a statue was removed and what it depicts for US and the one new Zealand statue. Banak (talk) 09:25, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Clemson University
1. Removed John C Calhoun's name from Honors College. Done
2. "The university board also publicly requested permission from the state legislature to change the name of Tillman Hall back to its original name, the Main building. The iconic campus building currently honors “Pitchfork” Ben Tillman, a governor and US senator who used virulent racism to dominate South Carolina politics after Reconstruction. ¶ Other than removing the Confederate flag from state House grounds after a deadly attack on nine black Charleston church members in 2015, South Carolina lawmakers have refused to take up any major changes of Confederate monuments. Change requires a two-thirds vote of both the House and Senate." [9] 
Not done
deisenbe (talk) 08:21, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
- Looks like they only took off Calhoun's name after pressure from students and NFL players.[10] Calhoun County, Michigan is maybe considering a name change as well.[11] Here in Minneapolis we changed our Lake Calhoun to Bde Maka Ska just last year. gobonobo + c 09:03, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Closed
Name of Charles Aycock removed
These are NOT current but despite my interest in North Carolina (my first full-time job) I missed these completely. I'm putting them here just because they deserve mention somewhere, even if not here.
Update on Salisbury NC
NC city’s officials approve measure to move Confederate monument deemed ‘public safety threat’
deisenbe (talk) 10:08, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Done