Talk:List of active Brazilian military aircraft

Untitled

OK, this is a very nice list, but.... What use is it really? It will never ever be up to date, and thus never accurate; figures given in Flight International are NEVER accurate anyway. Please consider adding the info to a List of Brazillian military aircraft, or similar, with dates of service, numbers acquired etc. This would be far more useful than a list that is impossible to keep up to date.Petebutt (talk) 06:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Now it is tidied up a bit it is a very good start for that list I mentioned above, good luck.Petebutt (talk) 06:11, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Further to the above , consider: 1 removing the country of origin (most people using the list will know it and those that don't just have to open the link to the aircraft,; 2. adding the Brazillian military designation, as this would be very useful for reference purposes; 3.adding dates of service:-

Aircraft	Designation	Mission	Quantity	Dates	Notes
AMX International AMX	A-1 A-1B	Ground attack Trainer	52 8	1989 -	To be withdrawn in 2025.

This sortable table will expand to fit the text and auto wrap when necessary.Petebutt (talk) 06:28, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good, ill get onto it some time in the near future. Flightglobal inst always wrong and its figures are generally a close and realistic number - plus no source except official published figures are correct. Single sourcing the table for consistency and updating every year is the best we can offer this article at the moment. Trying to get an all-round picture of the fleet is more important than the exact number of aircraft to the number. Recon.Army (talk) 08:39, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Embraer Tucano

Acording to "World Airliner Census 2011" all Tucano EMB-312 are for training purpose.

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Inventory

Airbus is not a French company but a European one. Hence, the designation of the Airbus 319 as being of French origin is false. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:74:E65:BF00:EDB3:E408:7F83:8D4F (talk) 12:09, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Origin is to do with the country that the aircraft are built in not were the aircraft company is based, also note that "Europe" or "European Union" are not countries. MilborneOne (talk) 12:15, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Following your logic, it should rather read Germany as MSN2263 was built there. SAs (talk) 01:49, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Indeed it should be Germany. MilborneOne (talk) 14:20, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Regarding the number of A-29s in service

The numbers quoted on the source are wrong. When these planes were initially purchased, the purchase was of almost 100 Super Tucanos. There are at least 70 of those currently in service, however this is not the airworthiness numbers, only the approximate total number of A-29s in our Air Bases. See the article on the Super Tucano here in Wikipedia's English version for further details and proper sources.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_EMB_314_Super_Tucano 179.35.12.244 (talk) 23:47, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

@179.35.12.244: The number on the list is taken from "World Air Forces", which is generally reliable source. However it doesn't means it can not be wrong. If you have better source, please update the number and change the source. Reference on Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano mostly dated 10 years ago, so we can not use that. Ckfasdf (talk) 23:55, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Regarding C-390 / KC-390

Refer to recent edit by SurferSquall to revert my edit, whereas he insist that Brazil aircraft (FAB) order is C-390 not KC-390 because he consider they are different aircraft, he also reject Janes Information Services source and claimed it as wrong. I am still strongly suggest my edit, please find below the rationale my edit.

1. KC-390 and C-390 Millennium are the same aircraft. In 2019, Boeing and Embraer announced to redesignate KC-390 to C-390 Millennium. This information is also included in Embraer C-390 Millennium article.
2. KC-390 designation will still be used by FAB. In 2023, FAB website still list it as KC-390.
3. Total order of KC-390 was 28 aircraft. In May 2022, Embraer and Brazil AF agree to cut order to 19 aircraft
4. Source provided by SurferSquall on this edit didn't inform the latest update for explain number of active or on order except for one. That source is dated 4 April 2023 and says FAB operate 5 KC-390.
5. My edit here is basically just replacement of previous source as it was in Portuguese. Per WP:NONENG, English-language sources are preferred over non-English ones when they are available and of equal quality and relevance.
6. Source from Janes is dated 10 May 2023 (which is newer than SurferSquall source). That source is also update total aircraft delivered to be 6 of total order of 19. Hence, remaining on order is 19-6=13 (simple math). Ckfasdf (talk) 03:24, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

On all military aircraft, a "K" designation denotes a tanker variant; this has been true since the 1960s. The janes source is simply incorrect, it happens. you're misreading your own sources, none of them say that they are the same aircraft. SurferSquall (talk) 21:53, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Did you EVEN read the explanation, esp. point 1 and 2 above? All of my statement above are sourced. Ckfasdf (talk) 22:05, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Again, you are reading the source wrong. SurferSquall (talk) 00:50, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

this source clearly states the aircraft—hitherto known as the KC-390— has been redesignated as the C-390 to better reflect its mission flexibility and this source state The two companies also renamed the KC-390 which is now called the C-390 Millennium – the former designation will be used only by the Brazilian Air Force (FAB).

Did you EVEN read? Ckfasdf (talk) 02:52, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Them using the former designation does not preclude the latter. Again, you’re the one not comprehending it SurferSquall (talk) 12:58, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Do you have any reference FAB uses "C-390 Millenium" designation? Also whichever designation uses, 6 of 19 aircraft has been delivered, so total "on order" should be 13 not 14. Ckfasdf (talk) 16:53, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

The article I cited states 6 delivered plus 14 orders, does it not? SurferSquall (talk) 00:35, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Which is outdated, please see point 3 above. Total order is 19, WAF 2023 still list it as 5 active service and 14 ordered. 1 aircraft is delivered in 2023, so total in service is 6 (and ref updated), but for on order you still to refer WAF 2023. And you didn't answer the first question Do you have any reference FAB uses "C-390 Millenium" designation? Ckfasdf (talk) 03:13, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

i don't need a reference; according to international rules K designation is for tankers only SurferSquall (talk) 23:59, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Refer to WP:V, that's not how it work . Please provide the reference for your statement above.

Ckfasdf (talk) 20:21, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Regarding C-130

Refer to this source dated May 2023, total C-130 in service is 4 aircraft and one of them is KC-130 or tanker variant. I don't see any reason on why my edit was reverted when it was just qty update, I also put the reference above on my edit. Ckfasdf (talk) 16:59, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Update by Danilvs

Refer to latest inventory update by Danilvs, as I look up his edit, aside of introducing error on the table, most of them are using outdated source so It'll be reverted. The details as follows:

1. F-39: https://www.aereo.jor.br/2023/11/15/mais-dois-cacas-f-39-gripen-da-fab-chegam-em-dezembro/ states that in December total F-39 operational will be 8 aircraft, however note that the source was issued on November. Please only update when the source states total number operational is xx number of aircraft.
2. F-5: https://www.airway.com.br/cronograma-da-fab-define-o-ritmo-de-aposentadoria-dos-cacas-f-5-ate-2029/ indicate F-5 is phasing out process, however other sources such as World Air Forces 2024 and Military Balance 2024 still list >40 aircraft.
3. EMB-314: Deanilvs uses https://www.embraer.com/en-us/imprensaeventos/press-releases/noticias/pages/embraer-realiza-primeiro-voo-do-a-1m.aspx dto update EMB-314, however it is a deadlink and upon further look up, it was taken from https://aeromagazine.uol.com.br/artigo/embraer-realiza-primeiro-voo-do-a-1m_562.html which is dated June 2012.
4. UH-60: https://veja.abril.com.br/coluna/radar/exercito-vai-aos-eua-para-comprar-misseis-e-20-helicopteros-black-hawk/ is used, however that source only mention that Brazilian Army intended to purchase 20 UH-60s, meanwhile we have consensus to include only aircraft that has confirmed order (not intent/plan/potential order), this consensus is also align with WP:AIRCRAFT-OPERATOR. Ckfasdf (talk) 02:57, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Danilvs, in reference to your recent edit on the Super Tucano page, you listed the total number of aircraft as 60 based on 2 sources dated in 2023. However, our inventory table already differentiates between single-seat (A-29A) and twin-seat (A-29B) versions. The Military Balance 2024 report from February 2024 provides specific numbers for each type: 38 A-29As and 43 A-29Bs, totaling 81 aircraft. Your source only mentions "60 Super Tucano (A-29)" without detailing the types. It's better to refer on the more recent and detailed Military Balance 2024 data. Ckfasdf (talk) 16:15, 11 April 2024 (UTC)