Talk:Linkin Park/Archive 2

Genre

okay, let's make this reasonable. everyone who comes here, just add the gernre you think it's better to the list. JUST ADD, don't edit the main page and don't argument your choice yet. let's leave it open for a week now, then we vote this and end this talk at least till the next album, okay?

Alternative Rock - current
Nu Metal - current
Rapcore - current
Alternative Metal - current

män-et-arms 21:39, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

No - a) It's unorthodox. b) They still play their old songs at concerts. c) If their not Nu-metal, as Bennington stated, then what are they? See WP:NOR --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  00:08, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

okay, you're right =). any other suggestions as of yet?

None yet, we'll eventually get there :p --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  01:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

i say add post grunge. at first, i also disagreed, but i started relistening to their stuff, and i also have AMG backing me up here. 66.57.12.148 13:54, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

okay, genres here seem to be greatest problem ever o-o. i've seen that on panic! at the disco's article yet, and they're way a newer bands than LP, and as it seems, they got to a solution. so let's find what the bands say they are, then we go to AMG, and other sources. is that good? män-et-arms 00:16, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Live in Texas

I believe that there is incorrect information shown.

The information shown here says that it the footage was shot for over the course of two days. Mike stated sometime during the show Mike that they were doing two shows in Dallas but the camera guys that were in the concert will be only filming just them and not the second show.

I thought I should post here before I did anything. Right now I don't have my copy so I could verify the exact time on the DVD he stated this but I'm pretty sure.

Anyone agree with me on this?--Justwisted 20:54, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

The footage on the DVD is from both shows. These7enthprophet 05:55, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Can you confirm this?--Justwisted 04:58, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

The footage is definitely shot from two different songs. I don't have documented proof, but when watching the DVD you can clearly see some "mistakes". Like Mike (Shinoda) standing in one palce during a song and a second later in a different one and then in the original one again. A clearer proof is Brad (Delson) using two different guitars during one song ("One Step Closer" I think), which indicates that the footage is indeed from two different shows. Also, the text on the album art state, quote:"Recorded live August 2nd 2003 at Reliant Stadium in Houston, TX and August 3rd 2003 at Texas Stadium in Irving, TX at the Summer Sanitarium Tour." -- P4cman 18:44, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Well i agree with your point tht the footage was shot for over the course of two days.... But i suggest u check once cos even i m not dead sure but i m quiet confident tht it wasnt shot for two days... Kalivd 05:52, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm positive it was two different days - Brad Delson also is wearing two different shirts (a polo one day and I think a t-shirt the next.) Rekrdskratcher 00:56, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I think we really need to confirm this. I think we either need to remove this info because there is a lot people saying "I think" and no correct citation if it really is true.--Justwisted 16:06, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Lock It?

It seems this article is getting a lot of attention lately. This isn't good.

'Meteora, their sophomore follow-up, was also extremely successful, selling over 6 million copies in the United States. Also they have won a Grammy for rap/sung callobration with artist and now close friend Jay-Z for their single song Numb/Encore. This song is of their album Collision Course.

That was posted in the opening paragraph. While it is informative (If you can decipher it), it is excessive and looks like a kindergarten student wrote it.

I move that this article be locked until this frenzy dies down and let someone have the chance (I'll volunteer) to clean it up a little bit. This article needs citations like crazy. Thanks. --These7enthprophet 06:51, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

okay, the amount of edits going on now is insane. i strongly suggest we lock the article. FyreNWater 05:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

okay, the page has been blanked or drastically vandalized quite a few times. can't we lock it already? FyreNWater 05:31, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Ghost album

Most of their fans don't wanna understand that this "third studio album" will be NEVER released. These are only rumors, and LP themselves continue to tell lies. Their activity is already over. --Chargin' Chuck 20:35, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

And you got this idea where? They just finished the album with Rick Rubin, who must have been lying as well. Same as all the concert venues who have booked the band. Unless you have something relevent to say please don't post such things on the discussion page. --SayCheese 20:36, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, what the hell is this? Your idea, Chuck, is honestly one of the most retarded ideas ever. Apparently, if you are correct, then there's been a conspiracy going on worldwide concerning the new album. LP's been lying, Rick Rubin's been lying and all the venues have been lying to us? Don't think so. Hello2112 01:15, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Loosen up, guys. It was a joke, perhaps put in the wrong forum, but certainly well-timed as the band pushes the release date of the new album back to 2011. Roofi's Publicist 03:23, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

The release date of the third album, now officially named "Minutes From Midnight", has been set to May 15th for the US and 14th for Europe and Australia. P4cman 18:46, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget about canada. we get it on the 14th too. god. Homoeroticlove 00:13, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Tour Dates

I added a chart with all confirmed tour dates so far. I'll keep updating as I get notice. Dragonlink2 23:44, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

New logo and band picture

Should they be added at the top of the article? Hello2112 22:32, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Which new logo and band picture? source please.

Well heres a new pic apprently appeared on a newsletter or something: http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~jsparina/lp/photo-lp.jpg then the new logo: http://linkin-park.es/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/lplogo07.gif

i got the picture from: www.lptimes.com and I think it must be a fixed higher res version of the logo from www.linkin-park.es. The orginal picture (i think) from lp times: http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~jsparina/lp/icon-lp.jpg

I think all the fan sites have it posted as well. (Sizedude 22:38, 28 February 2007 (UTC))

>> Well, now that we've established that the two pics exist, are we posting them or not? Hello2112 00:04, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

We could put up the logo but the picture might not be able to stay because we don't know if it is from a press kit or not. When more publicity photos come out we can probably change the one that's there already. --SayCheese 23:52, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

So, where will the logo go? Next to the old one? Hello2112 00:15, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I say keep the current logo and put the new one down in Recent Events, because 1) It wouldn't fit at the top since it's not very long and 2) There are probably more logos coming that would fit better up there. --SayCheese 01:26, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay. Hello2112 19:03, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

new single further

Are you all sure this is true, were was this confirmed?

That information isn't even on the article anymore. Obviously it wasn't true or you'd be hearing about it everywhere. --SayCheese 23:49, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

AMG reference

I would sincerely know who continues to remove this ref. --Chargin' Chuck 21:22, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Pitchshifter anyone?

did Linkin Park ever hear Pitchshifter's stuffs? --ArtMicael 14:08, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Why do you ask? similar sound --Person Place or Nothingl 19:25, 11 March 2007

ya, and this band is old. by the way maybe Linkin Park should be classified the same like Pitchshifter."Industrial-Metal"?--ArtMicael 10:02, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

They sound similar, but it so happens Industrial Metal is also similar to Nu Metal, LP's genre. I think LP is fine as it is. LonelyPker 01:02, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

just listen to their newest single "what i've done", no metal sounds there. they get a little "MUSE" or 'british' in a way. so maybe industrial-rock fit the bills more.--ArtMicael 09:10, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

But like they said in an interview, they're "Changing the style of the band". So maybe it's halfway between Industrial and Nu, besides. Not all their songs have metal feels. LonelyPker 23:50, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Pts Of Athrty Picture

I have a high-res pic of the screenshot from the video: http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9937/ptsofauthwu4.jpg not sure if I should or how to replace it with the lower-res one? (Sizedude 23:55, 9 March 2007 (UTC))

Not Alternative Rock

Cannot find a ciation for Linkin Park being Alternative Rock.

Leaving the genre as Nu Metal / Rapcore is sufficent.

And generally speaking, Linkin Park do have more of a 'heavier' sound than traditional Alternative Rock bands. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.108.224.122 (talk) 04:16, 11 March 2007 (UTC).

1) http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/music/artist/card/0,,1058894,00.html

2) Linkin Park has won a Radio Music Award for Best Alternative Rock Song[1]

3) Linkin Park themselves have classified themselves as alternative [2]

4) I've argued this before, but nu metal/ rapcore is redundant

--SayCheese 04:26, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Nu metal and rapcore aren't synonymous. Rage Against the Machine and Kid Rock are rapcore, but not nu metal. Korn and Slipknot are nu metal, but not rapcore (except for a few songs). Crumbsucker 11:00, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Point taken. --SayCheese 22:22, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I think LP's genre should (only) be changed after the new album comes out. The band has promised a new and alternative sound, which they say is definitely not nu-metal. P4cman 18:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Clean Up/Images

I noticed that several of the images in this article do not met their fair use rationale. (See WP:Fair use). album covers cannot be used in stand alone galleries for decoration – they are only meant to be used on Wikipedia for critical commentary. The additional use album covers in article is also limited, as they are only to be used when words cannot describe the album. None of the FA Status articles for bands have album covers in them for that reason, see Talk:Pink Floyd#Album covers

Second, this article is rather poorly referenced. There are less than ten references in this 30+kb article, which is almost disheartening given there are 15kb articles, with more sources. See WP:Cite, WP:RS, WP:OR, WP:ATT, and Template:Cite web Thanks for your time, good luck. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  22:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok... now there isnt a single image outside the bands name...
Ferdia O'Brien The Archiver And The Vandal Watchman 20:19, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

On the subject of cleaning up, the Song appearances in media section needs some work. For example it mentions that Somewhere I Belong was featured in an All-Star game. Which year? Also, is it possible to get this list into chronological order? --Tempest115 18:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I think someone already tackled that problem. I've cleaned up the lead and first section - we should all try to use the same type of citations for a sense of consistency. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  05:59, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Xero merge

Okay, the Xero (rock band) article has been tagged for merging for about half a year. now, I think that we should do this: take out all of the Xero info and insert it into the main LP article, leaving the article as an article for just the demo tape. Concerning, the concert, I don't know what to do with that. Hello2112 23:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

EDIT: Didn't notice that the concert was removed. Hello2112 23:49, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Discography Clean-Up

I cleaned up the discography page by removing the videography from it since there is already an article dedicated to that subject. Chouonsoku 05:12, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Genre

Is it really accurate to list Linkin Park as a Nu Metal band? I know that their first two albums had a Nu Metal sound to it, but the band stated that they do not want to be labeled as such. Also, Linkin Park have said that their third album, "Minutes to Midnight", is completely devoid of any Nu Metal sounds. It is difficult to catagorize Linkin Park's music, but there must be a more accurate label than "Nu Metal". Perhaps the intro to the article should point some of this out instead of simply referring to them as a Nu Metal band. Hmm.. If that affects the clarity of the article, then maybe not. But still, "Nu Metal" is too narrow of a term to define Linkin Park's sound.

Mathew Williams 21:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

^^^^ Alternative rock or rapcore.

It's just POP music... nothing else

WhatIveDone.org - Dedicated fansite to The New What I've Done Single..

WhatIveDone.org - Dedicated fansite to The New What I've Done Single..

Wondering why it is always removed... This site is nonprofit and has NO advertisements...

See WP:EL - Wikipedia's policy for external links. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  03:08, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

New Single "What I've Done"

I wanted to point out today is April 2nd and I just downloaded "What I've Done" from iTunes. It is noted in the article as citation needed, but clearly is official.

Brosner 13:46, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

we're completely missing details of LP vs Warner Records feud

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1519374/20051228/linkin_park.jhtml?headlines=true&rsspartner=rssNetNewsWire http://www.google.com/search?q=Linkin+Park+and+Warner+Records+feud&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Because the problem lasted over year, and with media even circulated to the point that Warner Bros. Record would collapse without them, this topic deserve more attention then mere "In May, the band demanded to be released from its contract with Warner Bros. on the grounds of "a lack of confidence." The band was recently in negotiations with the label over a new record contract. Linkin Park had four albums left outstanding on its 2000 record contract. In December 2005 the band announced that they had finally reached a settlement with Warner Bros. Records." My idea is that we look into it more detailedly and put up more information regarding this, since this was the reason Linkin Park refused to release new album for over three years.

99Problems

IN the whole text there is no mention of the 2006 release 99Problems(with JayZ) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 122.162.146.234 (talk) 06:20, 12 April 2007 (UTC).

Portions of the article have been temporarily removed, as we are cleaning it up. The JayZ portion will be re added later. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  08:20, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Added songlist

I've added a hefty songlist guys, but I may have missed some out so you may want to have a quick look over it. Daveuk07 14:35, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

pointless, so i deleted it DragonDance 17:36, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Meaning Of Name

This article should contain the proper definition of the meaning of the name "Linkin Park". Can anyone please put it in? TathD 19:30, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

See Early Years section, mainly the second paragraph. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  20:31, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Band member fix

I notice that the link for Mr Hahn wasn't working as he is under Joe Hahn on this so I have updated it, I have just put John Hahn a.k.a Mr Hahn but as I am not a wiki user I dont know the correct format for listing someones alias so please could someone correct it if I am wrong. 212.1.144.23 17:38, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

MORE Vandalism

the user at 70.117.9.231 keeps blanking the page. it's been at least four times. can't we block them already? at least lock the page again. FyreNWater 07:09, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Aggred, I reverted even more vandalism yesterday. How do we go about getting this article locked?subliminalis 16:21, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I think the page should at least be semi-protected, as it was for the Minutes to Midnight article. --SayCheese 15:31, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

To-Do List

Can Add more references to the article be taken off the To Do List? The article has 25 now. If not, how many more should there be and what sections really need them? --SayCheese 15:31, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

It still needs more, there are some unreferenced sections. I'm slowly rewording the article in one of my sand boxes. It should be done in a few weeks :p Until then, you can add normal links to claims in the article. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  21:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

"Linkin Park is a nu metal band"

Linkin Park isn't a nu metal band any more. Would anyone mind if I changed the genre here to "rock"? Thanks. Elsebroke 16:05, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it's fine as it is. --SayCheese 16:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure? Chester said there is almost no nu metal sound on Minutes to Midnight. I think it would be wise to refer to Linkin Park as just a rock band here. The genres are on the infobox; that sort of lets readers decide for themselves. Thanks. Elsebroke 16:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

If you can find an instance where the band claims they are no longer nu-netal and cite it, go for it.subliminalis 03:24, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Even if they are no longer Nu Metal they have historically been a Nu Metal band. Wikipedia should cover historical categorisation, not just current --irrevenant [ talk ] 11:25, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

15 million or 20 albums sold?

15 according to RIAA --21:35, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

They sound like they went more punk rock with their new album... Sounds a tad empty without all the crazy effects of Mr. Hahn though. 70.122.45.116

Two nu metal albums, one punk rock album. They are both, because when they are touring, they will play their past songs. 72.66.13.48 01:02, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Genres

Oh. My. Goodness.

Why do we keep having all of these genre debates when Linkin Park clearly fits the Wikipedia definition of numerous genres, all of which they are currently listed under? I provided 4 separate sources for alternative rock, and you mean to tell me that none of those are a reputable source?

Since when did genres need to be cited as well? I'm looking at the featured articles for music ([[3]]) and just randomly clicking on artists I can't find a single one where the genre has to be cited. Please, I think we all know that Linkin Park fits all of the genres that are listed on its article page in some form or fashion -- can we not agree upon that? Enfestid 02:46, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

See Wikipedia's Reliable sources policies. While I agree they are Alternative Rock], we still need to fetch a reference to verify the claim. See WP:Verify. I guess We could just leave it alone for now. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  03:12, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I propose we remove the citations for the genres completely, as it is just plain silly. There's no need to cite the genres of a band. I'll wait a day for people to respond.

Enfestid 17:22, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Ah, upon looking at the FA/GA list, most band articles have done away with the citations for genres. If no body objects, I say we go along with Enfestid's proposal. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  22:13, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

After hearing the leaked mp3s of this album, I propose we add "Emo" or "Emocore" to the genre list. Seriously though, these guys need to /wrists for putting out an album this bad *sniff* syncretic 22:42, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Come on people !

Why is this article so bad? I've seen less known artists having better Wiki pages.

Get your ¤#%¤ together and improve it please :) I mean, it has the cleanup AND source tags? There aren't many articles that have both tags. Just my two cents. Pho3nix-

Genre

Okay. You should just post them as follows: Nu Metal (Old Stuff)

                                           Alternative Rock (New Stuff)

I mean even on their Myspace they have themselves as Alternative/Rock.

Also, No way in hell are they Post-Grunge...thats a terrible Genre. If theirs any arguement against what i'm saying their Genre should be named as plz post. Anyway if there is an arguement i'll go straight to the LP forums and the LPU forums. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RiseAgainst01 (talk • contribs) 18:16, 12 May 2007 (UTC).

Labeling genres is almost as subjective as interpreting religious concepts. It's almost impossible for everyone to agree that a band is x, y, but definitely not z. MSN Music considers the band to be "Nu Metal, Metal, Pop, Rock, Alternative Pop/Rock", while All Music Guide files them under "Alternative Metal, Post-Grunge, and Rap-Metal". Assigning a band to a genre based on personal tastes is almost as bad as leaving it up to popular opinion. Additionally, there are no current GA/FA articles that divide genres into 'old' and 'new'; they just leave the 'previous' genres in the section.--  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  19:22, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Minutes To Midnight Ciphers in Australia

In Australia it seems a very different approach to marketing the album has been taken. A company called Amnesia appears to be working for Warner Music Australia to deliver 17 'Ciphers' to the fans. 'Ciphers' are appearing on line, radio, in TVC's and on things such as posters and T-Shirts. The 'Ciphers' take such forms as R1904. More information can be found here: http://minutestomidnight.wordpress.com/ or the new Australian official site where the 'Ciphers' can be entered here: http://minutestomidnight.com.au/ To be updated as more information comes up.

AlmostEvolved 04:05, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Shinoda did work with Depeche Mode???

I did not find this reference when I looked —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.205.213.42 (talk) 02:17, 15 May 2007 (UTC).

See Reference #5, RockDetector.com --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  02:42, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Jimmy Kimmel

Linkin Park are set to be the musical guests on Jimmy Kimmel Live on Friday, May 18th. The show airs that night on ABC at 12:05am Eastern. Can someone who is not restricted verify and put it up —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.176.172.119 (talk) 02:32, 15 May 2007 (UTC).

It's not really that significant, since the band has already had several appearances on late night shows. Your previous comment was removed per the 'Wikipedia is not a Forum' rule. Rather trivial discussions that do not directly pertain to the article do not belong on discussion pages.--  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  02:44, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Reform Article

I think there is need to reform the article because things seem to be a little out of order/format. Can someone who knows, and has the time to do this please do it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Blackraven36 (talk • contribs) 09:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC).

The Article was based on Megadeth's structure. Parts of it are currently under reworking. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  21:23, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Fixed reference to Instrument Used in Nobody's Listening (Track 10,Meteora)

The instrument used in this specific track is called a shakuhachi
--Amaraiel 15:48, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Minutes to Midnight section

Okay, somebody please rewrite this section in a reasonable way. Damn, even the tenses are wrong! And take out all of that stuff about "What I've Done" single, the section is about the album, not the singles. At most, say when it was released and how it did on charts.män-et-arms 22:49, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

there it is. reads better now, i don't belive it' s essay anymore, but it's still short, WAY too much short. gonna find some more things related to the album, reviews really provide something. if anyone can help, i would love. män-et-arms 21:26, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Expanding the stubs

Would there be a problem with me expanding on the already existing stubs and putting them on a new section on the bottom called Tracks. If this violates a rule somehow please say something as i am relatively new

Minor Edits

Aside from completely rewriting Minutes to Midnight section and expanding the other "Bend History" sections, which are major works, I'd like to suggest some minor edits.

First, in the band members area, I think there should be some order on the names list. Alphabetical, or any other you might think about.

Second, I think Brad doesn't really provide "Lead" guitars, 'cause mainly he is the only guitarrist (take into account I haven't heard the last album), so I think that leaving him only as "Guitar", or else putting Mike as Rhythm Guitar. It also works for Chester, he's not acctually "Lead" vocalist, he's a vocalist ALONG TO Mike, so make both simply "Vocals".

Third, if Mark was the "Lead Vocalist" (or just Vocalist), there's no need to say he was the singer and that he was replaced by Chester. Just take those notes out.

Fourth, in the discography stuff, if this article is based on Megadeath's structure, I think that table should be removed, leaving only the names of the albums and the years of release.

Fifth, on the videography, I think that all the text should be removed and be placed on the videography article, since we have such article. Also, Live 8 wasn't acctually a Linkin Park release, rather they featured in such DVD. And I think that Breaking the Habbit DVD was ALSO a Limited Edition, at least limited to US, 'cause the only way for me to buy it here in Brazil is importing from US.

And at last, that info box at the bottom of the page has a problem with "Enth E ND" and "Frgt/10" links. Acctually, I don't think they're even singles. And please don't link all those "years in music". There's nothing really useful about LP out there.

thanks (Y) män-et-arms 14:47, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

did it myself, if anyone find it annoying (i changed the article very slightly, but anyways) just tell me.

Genres (For the 90th Time)

Genres, as indicated in previous discussions DO NOT need to be cited. Unless there is a vast disagreement, there's no sense in changing it. Please search the previous discussions on this page (and in the archive) before changing them. Furthermore, if you disagree with a genre, please discuss it here first, where we can act like civil human beings. Enfestid 01:18, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Archieving?

i mean, besides the talk upon the new album and genre, every other talk here is damn old. time for archieving. who's with me? män-et-arms 21:38, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Citing info for new album

How would you cite something it says in the album booklet? In the second section where it states the information about how many ideas, songs, recordings, etc. It states all of that in the actual album if you read the booklet that comes with the album. --Μ79_Šp€çíá∫횆 ^{tell me about it}

See WP:CITET. It's usually just "(year), booklet name, publisher: page." --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  14:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC)