Talk:Kha b-Nisan

References

currently, the article is mostly based on random urls pulled off google, mostly of Assyrianist gist. Please establish whether this festival is part of Assyrianist Iron-Age nostalgia in particular, or whether the "Syriacs" observe it as well as the "Assyrians". In other words, is this part of the Syriac "identity war", or is it just a spring festival which like every other aspect of Syriac/Assyiran folklore is abused by the "identity war" factions. --dab (𒁳) 10:15, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Also, please stop re-introducing material on Bronze Age festival discussed at Akitu. So the spring festival was called "Akitu" after the Babylonian festival in 1950. This doesn't make the two topics identical. Also stop calling the Akitu festival "Assyrian": it is a Sumerian festival in origin, and is known as the Babylonian new year, because it was mostly celebrated in Babylon, in honour of Marduk. It was adopted in Assyria very late, around 700 BC, at the time the Assyrian empire had conquered Babylon, afaics under Sennacherib. This means it was observed in Assyria during less than one century before the Persian conquest. --dab (𒁳) 10:21, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

It is only practiced by people who identify themselves as Assyrian, predominately from the Church of the East but as well as from the Syriac Churches and Chaldean Church.--Chcoc (talk) 21:02, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

well, we need a reference that "It is only practiced by people who identify themselves as Assyrian", and then we can make it a topic of Assyrianism. Note that here we have Malik Danno (talk · contribs) claiming that "It is celebrated by members of all the Assyrian Christian denominations Chaldean, Syriac and 'Nestorian'". This is exactly why we operate on WP:CITE, and not on mere claims by people who "just know". If Kha b-Nisan is a facet of Assyrianism, fine, we can state as much, but we need a reference backing this up explicitly.

Your addition of

it has been stated that the celebration falls on April 1st because in the pagan tradition, the celebration lasts for 12 days honoring each deity starting March 21 and ending in a final celebration. Because the Assyrians had converted to Christianity in the first to third century ("Iraqi Assyrians: Barometer of Pluralism". Middle East Quarterly. Retrieved Summer 2003. Modern Assyrians trace their heritage to the ancient Mesopotamians who converted from paganism to Christianity in the three centuries after Christ. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)), only the final celebration continued.

is beyond the pale. Your source only states that conversion to Christianity took place in the first to third century, which isn't disputed. Your rather far-fetched claim of what "has been stated" remains completely unreferenced. Don't do that. Also, don't link to "ancient Assyrian calendar", Assyrian calendar is the article on the 1950s Assyrianist construct. Link to ancient Assyrian calendar if you must. But note that there was no "March" in this calendar, so it is meaningless to claim that the ancient festival "started on 21 March". The expression "21 March" is meaningless unless you state which calendar you are referring to, either Julian or Gregorian. --dab (𒁳) 09:06, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

They are two present theories as two why it is celebrated on why it is celebrated on a different date as opposed to other groups in the middle east. Put a fact check next to it if you must.--Chcoc (talk) 20:40, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

if we cannot produce a quotable source, I see no reason to keep any of these "theories". --dab (𒁳) 21:08, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

alright, I've added sources and they make more sense than the theories (and yes the theories are actually things people say). With ancient Persians, the equinox fell on March 21st; with ancient Assyrians and Babylonians, it was celebrated in "Nissan" which also happens to be the start of the calendar. So, Assyrians living in the villages had limited or no communication with the outside world and basically, their lives revolved around the churches up until the exodus staring around late 19th century/early 20th century. With that being said, the calendar the churches used was the only one used by Assyrians even though the world had adopted the Gregorian calendar. The new year was celebrated on "kha b'nissan" in the Julian calendar they lived by prior to exodus (common every day use beyond church even up till the 1970s) as well as "kha b'nissan" of the Gregorian calendar used by the new gov they lived under. Which is why the statement about April 1st of one calendar corresponding to March 21st of another calendar does not really hold up (also, they dates don't really correspond) and the fact that they did not ever refer to it as "isree kha b'adar".--Chcoc (talk) 22:25, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Also, I'm not too sure about this sentence: "In the 1950s, rising interest in Assyrianism resulted in the creation of a modern "Assyrian calendar", loosely based on the historical Assyrian calendar. Its era was fixed at 4750 BC, inspired by an estimate of the date of the first temple at Ashur in the Middle Ubaid period. In the same spirit, the Akkadian name of the spring festival, Akitu was revived." The names of months were already in use prior to the creation of the calendar in the 50s which is why there are a few different names for some months compared to the old Assyrian calendar and the sentence seems to imply that they were invented in the 50s. All that the creators did was decide the year and put it in print.--Chcoc (talk) 05:16, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Evidence that these names were in use earlier than the 1950s? How much earlier? To the best of my knowledge, the names were reconstructed around the 1890s. It would take a couple of decades before they could enter popular usage. I am willing to accept this happened before the 1950s, but we'd need a solid reference. --dab (𒁳) 18:10, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

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Merge with Akitu?

This page and Akitu both refer to the same spring festival celebration called by different names. 2001:1970:5C60:7F00:4C2B:4947:A491:3866 (talk) 14:40, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Everything is false

Im sorry but almost everything written in this article is false. The only thing true is the name of the festival.

There is 0 evidence that ancient assyrians practiced this let alone modern day assyrians who have nothing to do with the ancient ones. The term assyrian christian was given to the nestorians/east christians as a geographical term.

This festival is a Babylonian festival, not Assyrian or akkadian or Sumerian or Hittian. 83.252.9.166 (talk) 09:41, 3 March 2024 (UTC)