Talk:Kent State University at Stark

University System of Ohio or Not?

OK, I'm a newby and don't want to get into the fray here! But it is clear from Chancellor Fingerhut's remarks that Kent State AND ITS regional campuses are all part of the University System of Ohio. They are an integral part of it. Would someone please restore it?

As for the Kent template, I'll confess that I live in Canton and my son that took some courses last summer at the Kent Campus. That disclosed, I find the template is totally Kent-Centric. I think that if the author did his homework or visited he wouldn't make comments that suggest there is nothing noteworthy on the other campuses.

Even if he believes it, the template, other than the link to regional campuses IS all about Kent campus social life, dormatories, etc.

Why not refer to it as a Kent State University Kent Campus template?

131.123.21.163 (talk) 20:39, 19 June 2008 (UTC)Sally O131.123.21.163 (talk) 20:39, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

No...see the explanations we have already spelled out over and over for why the template is for the entire university and not the Kent Campus. It only appears "Kent centric" right now because other articles about regional campus programs haven't been written yet. It's no more "Kent-centric" than the Template:Ohio State University is "Columbus-centric." Ohio State's regional campus-main campus relationship is basically identical to Kent State's, so yes, the main campus is going to have many more notable things compared to the regional campuses just because of numbers. Doesn't mean they can't be included once they're written. Also understand that the template is already not a listing of only Kent campus things, though now it is mostly so due to the fact that almost no articles have been written on the regional campuses or any notable programs they have. --JonRidinger (talk) 21:21, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

And therein lies at least one of the problems. Kent's regional campuses are organized completely differently than the Ohio State regional campuses. It is untrue and inaccurate to say they are "virtually identical" relationships. OSU's regionals are more two-year feeder programs into the OSU main campus. They are residential, and a mechanism for students to matriculate to OSU. Student's who can't get in go to the OSU regional campuses to earn admission to OSU. Kent's regionals aren't designed, or at least don't function that way. For example, student life and athletics exist at the other regional campuses, you just haven't bothered to look or learn. And regional campus students don't relate to or care about Kent Campus athletics. This is NOT about notable programs, it is about Kent programs —Preceding unsigned comment added by Purocafe (talk • contribs) 01:35, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

No one is challenging the notion that the regional campuses have student life or athletics programs of their own. You'll note the mention of KSU athletics on the template are the notable aspects of KSU athletics; i.e. some of the notable teams, some of the facilities, and the program itself. As far as I have been able to find, regional campus athletics do not play at an NCAA level. They aren't even notable enough to have their own page on the Stark campus's own website, so no, they won't be notable enough to be on Wikipedia as their own article or even on the template. They should certainly be mentioned on the article about the Stark Campus. Again, the template is for notable things at Kent State University, not everything at Kent State University. Perhaps the main Kent State University article itself can be expanded (it needs a lot of work anyway) to make better mention of regional campus activities and associations (or at least acknowledge their existence) in the appropriate sections. Also, be careful with blanket statements like "regional campus students don't relate to or care about Kent Campus athletics." Unless you have interviewed all 11,000+ regional campus students (many of whom are tied in with the Kent campus directly) you cannot make a claim like that. Further, it is irrelevant to Wikipedia what they think of KSU athletics in terms of establishing notability. The Kent State athletic program, offered at the main campus, is notable nationally, so yes, it's going to be on the template whether some regional campus students "relate to it" or not. You really need to become more familiar with the concept of templates because we keep going over the same things over and over. All the experienced editors have explained their purposes multiple times using other examples and Wikipedia policy.

As for the relationships, perhaps that is something that needs to be better defined. I realize that it is not an exact replica of Ohio State, but the administration of the regional campuses- the way that they are all under one president with each regional campus under their own dean- is very similar. Notice that the Kent campus isn't ever referred to as a "regional" campus like Stark, Ashtabula, Salem, or the others. According to you the KSU regionals function differently in how they admit students and that is probably true, but I doubt that everyone who attends OSU-Mansfield or OSU-Newark is there just because they couldn't get into OSU's main campus anymore than a KSU-Stark student is at Stark because they didn't make the cut for the main campus.

Of particular note, I noticed when I accessed the Stark Campus website, the section for academics which lists the academic colleges of the campus all have links to the main website for that college (i.e. at the Kent campus), not a specific Stark college website. This is what I'm talking about with the relationship. Stark and the other regional campuses, while certainly important to the University, are not autonomous from the main campus: they are all working together and interconnected as one large university under one main administration. --JonRidinger (talk) 03:44, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

So StepShep is also Jon? That means that StepShep and Jon both have a COI!

But more to the point - Why can't they leave the USO template on AND have a Kent Template that is labeled as Kent Campus. Seems like the quick and easy way to end this silly battle! 131.123.21.111 (talk) 20:44, 19 June 2008 (UTC)sylvia sosa131.123.21.111 (talk) 20:44, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Who said that User: Stepshep is me? We agree on many things and communicate regularly, but we are by no means the same person plus he is a much more experienced editor than I am. I don't know where you're getting that information from. As for the USO template...reasons have been given as to why it is inappropriate for it to be on the Stark page. The template has links to "Kent State University" among the 12 other state universities in Ohio, so only the school articles on that template should have the template on their pages. That's how templates work. It's not to say Stark isn't a part of the USO, but more for logical flow and connections as far as Wikipedia is concerned. Just look at the University System of Ohio article itself: it only mentions each university, not their regional campuses (note that almost all have regional campuses). Stark's part of USO is implied since it is part of Kent State University. --JonRidinger (talk) 21:21, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

No way, run a WP:RCU if you want. I'm sure I'm alot younger than Jon. I'm not going to repeat what's been said before. All we have is a couple of IPs who don't know the rules and apparently aren't willing to learn them. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 21:25, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Bottom line

The fact of the matter is that the purpose of such templates is to connect "similar" articles; that is to say articles where the subjects are related. The template has a link to Kent State University Stark Campus, so Kent State University Stark Campus should have the template on its page. The template is about all notable things Kent State. Kent State University Stark Campus is one of the notable Kent things. I'm really not sure how to make this more clear.

• Template A links to articles A, B, and C.
  • Articles A, B, and C should all have Template A on them. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 04:04, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Kent State University template

Please do not keep putting it on, unless you can make it ONLY a link to Kent. The many bars about housing, athletics, etc. is completely irrelevant to Kent Stark and only serves to confuse the two. Information about life on the Kent Campus may as well be about the University of Kentucky or Ohio State.

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Purocafe (talk • contribs) 18:03, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

The KSU template is for the entire university, not just the Kent campus. You should check the templates at other universities and see how they are used. One example is Ohio State University, Newark Campus. Notice how the main Ohio State University template is used. The template is to connect articles that are related together. That is the purpose of the template. Kent Stark is a part of Kent State even if it doesn't have direct connections to activities on the main campus, and many Kent Stark students eventually go to the main campus. There is no confusion since it is clearly stated in the article that Kent Stark is a regional campus of Kent State University. --JonRidinger (talk) 19:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the others. This is not a link about the entire eight campus university -- it is totally "Kent-Centric" and inappropriate. A link to the Kent Campus is appropriate, the other sub-links are not!

ATHLETICS section: athletics and faciliteis that are shown are ONLY Kent Campus athletics. Many of the regional campuses have intercollegiate athletics, but they are not even mentioned here!

FACILITIES section: The airport and the wellness center are the Kent Campus. The other campuses wellness centers are not shown, nor are any of the facilities.

HISTORY section: ditto. This is the history of the KENT Campus and we are completely ignored.

RESEARCH -- I guess the assumption is that the other campuses have no research?

STUDENT LIFE -- This is ludicrous and insulting-- the regional campuses have their own student governments, their own performing arts, their own student clubs. This is about ONE of the eight Kent campuses!

PLEASE quit putting this back on. It does not belong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.123.121.94 (talk) 13:54, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Again you are missing the point of the template. It is to connect all things Kent State. The articles on each regional campus (there is currently just one article) contain all the information you have addressed. As I mentioned before, see Ohio State University, Newark Campus for an example. The template is very clear that the Kent State Stark article is part of the Kent State series, which it certainly is since Kent Stark is a regional campus of Kent State, not an independent university which just happens to share the same name. The article on Kent State Stark goes into greater detail on the issues specific to its own campus, but that doesn't mean there can't be a connection to the greater university since Kent State Stark claims attachment to it, not only academically, but advertises that students can begin any of Kent State's majors at Kent State Stark. Now perhaps the template can be reworked or modified, but just get used to the fact that Stark is a regional campus and Kent is the main campus, so yes, it is going to have much more mention and be much more notable than Stark. The template is to point out all notable things about Kent State University, most of which ARE at the Kent campus since it accounts for some 22,000 of the university's 33,000 students. You really need to look at more examples and study the purposes behind templates and the relationships between articles. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:09, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Please also understand that the template can be modified and expanded as needed. If something is notable at Stark, it will be included, whether it be research, campus, programs, whatever. Right now, the only things notable about the Stark campus as far as Wikipedia is concerned are that it is a four-year school and a regional campus of Kent State University. Further, the University System of Ohio template should not be placed on this page because neither the template nor the article it connects to involve Kent State Stark specifically: it involves Kent State University, which Stark is a part of. Other regional campus articles also do not have the USO template on them, only the article about the main University itself (like Ohio U., Ohio State, Miami U., etc.). --JonRidinger (talk) 18:37, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

The Chancellor would disagree! He certainly seems to think that we are part of the University System of Ohio (and also refers to us as Kent State Stark or Kent State University Stark, never using the word campus, except "on the campus of ..." See his letter of June 11 announcing his visit to Kent Stark!

yes studetns CAN transfer, but Ohio Board of Regents data shows that Kent Campus is the 7th choice of students that transfer from here. If there is a relevant connection for the social life, etc. then put U of Akron or Walsh Univerisy ;-)

Lose the template and just put in a link to the Kent page. The template will be found universally offensive to the students, faculty, alumni, and region. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Purocafe (talk • contribs) 18:56, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

And with WP:NPOV we don't really care who we offend unless it's a BLP. Also, since you obviously have a WP:COI please step away and clear your head before making such statements. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 19:05, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

MANY people refer to Kent State Stark by that name, even at the Kent campus, but that doesn't mean that the official name or its role within the university has changed as the University's style guide points out the official name and acceptable alternatives. That is really not an issue. The chancellor would also agree that Stark is a part of Kent State University. His visit recognizes the importance of regional campuses (he is a big proponent of them), but not to say that Kent State Stark is a completely independent school. Until Kent State Stark has its own president it is still under the direction of Lester Lefton through Dr. Boze. Note that Dr. Boze is the dean of Kent State Stark and not the president. Most faculty, staff, and alumni of Kent State Stark understand the relationship between the main campus and the regional campuses. It's much more of an administrative connection than a community one (as the transfer data points out), though I have had professors from the Stark campus in classes at the main campus (interestingly enough, he said he was from "the Stark campus"). They are still connected, which is the purpose of the template. It's not to say everything on the template is relevant to each article it's on, though. I also find it interesting that ALL campuses use the same e-mail system (@kent.edu) and not an "@stark.kent.edu" or "@salem.kent.edu" address. It is also worth noting that there is no page for the Kent campus as www.kent.edu is for the entire university, not the campus itself. We're not trying to insult the campus or anyone connected with it; we're only trying to point out the existing connections and relationships to those who may not be familiar with the KSU system. --JonRidinger (talk) 19:38, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

• Kind editors, please take a look at Template:University of South Florida. Note that although there is slight emphasis on the Tampa-Temple Terrace main campus, other campuses such as those in Lakeland, St. Petersburg, and Sarasota-- and the New College of Florida in particular-- are given their due. Perhaps the Kent State template can be reworked, so that KSU Stark and other campuses are given more consideration. It would also be nice if articles could be written on KSU's other campuses. In any case, I do not think this template should be replaced with the University System of Ohio template, at least as long as Stark and other campuses carry the Kent State name. -- JeffBillman (talk) 15:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree...this goes along with what I have been saying. The template is for all things notable at Kent State University, regardless of which campus it comes from. At this point, the most notable things do come from the Kent campus because of its size compared to the other campuses (Kent campus enrollment is around 22,000 while the next biggest campus, Stark, is just over 5,000) and the fact that many (though certainly not all or even most) of the regional campus programs feed into programs at the main campus. It's one university; 8 campuses. As more articles are written about aspects of the regional campuses that have sufficient notablity, they should be included in the template under the appropriate category (the categories can also be modified, expanded, or eliminated). Perhaps we can reword the main article to differenciate between the "main" or Kent campus and the other campuses, though the regional campuses are mentioned in the main article. As I understand it now, all classes of all majors offered by KSU are available at the Kent campus; this is not true of the regional campuses. I do hope to start articles for the remaining regional campuses as well. --JonRidinger (talk) 16:47, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Jon -- you obviously mean well, but this just shouts CONFLICT OF INTEREST. You need to remove yourself and let less biases editors work on this. Your blinders make you so Kent-Centric that you do not realize what you say. Much of your information is inaccurate.

• The template is NOT for all things Kent. It is for "all things at the Kent Campus." * Few or none of the regional campuses significantly "feed" into the Kent Campus (do your homework -- check and reference the OBR data
• All classes and majors offered are available at the Kent Campus -- again, get your facts straight. Most of the regional campuses have extensive technical programs that are not available at Kent. There are a number of baccalaureate degrees that are only available at the regionals (horticulure, soon BS in Commercial Music, etc.

CONFLICT OF INTEREST, Jon FACTS, Jon Practice what you PREACH, Jon

TerriThomas (talk) 10:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)TeriTerriThomas (talk) 10:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, but I have checked my facts. Everything I have said comes from the KSU websites; all of which are interconnected. Kent State University is an 8-campus system, but the Kent campus is most certainly the main campus. Students at all campuses can begin most of KSU's 282 majors; but only at the main campus can they begin and finish all of the majors. That's not to say the regional campuses don't have their own unique programs; they should be spelled out in their articles and linked to the template as neccessary if they are notable. No one is disputing that. The Stark website says the following here: "Kent State University Stark Campus offers a variety of academic options for students. We have 11 bachelor degree programs, a professional M.B.A. program, a masters in education in curriculum and instruction and three associate degrees which students can complete in their entirety at our campus. We also offer an opportunity to begin coursework in many of the 282 academic programs available at Kent State University." That doesn't mean that all the regional campus programs are feeders into the main campus, but they can be, as I said and the websites support that. I don't place things in the articles without sources; different than posting opinions here. I don't have personal experience with the regional campuses...all I go on is the information provided. As I've said before, and other experienced editors have backed me up here, is that the template is for all notable things Kent State University. No one can argue that many of the most notable aspects of KSU are at the main campus, due to it being the oldest and by far the largest of the campuses and also the administrative center. And, as I've pointed out, notable programs at the regional campuses CAN be placed in the template if they have articles or at least the potential. That's not "Kent-centric" that's realistic. Stark has its own administration, yes, but it is under the main administration that oversees all campuses. Please also try to state your opinions without using personal attacks. --JonRidinger (talk) 13:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

• Salve, Terri! Before I start, allow me to present my status vis a vis Kent State so that you may evaluate if the "conflict of interest" applies also to me. I am a Portage County resident, which on face value admittedly may seem as though I am biased toward the Kent campus. However, I am a native of Salem, and I presently live midway between the Kent and Trumbull campuses, thus revealing a mitigating bias toward some of the regional campuses. Additionally, my alma mater and former employer is Bowling Green, and I am also a former candidate for employment at other institutions both within and without the University System of Ohio (and, indeed, out-of-state). Therefore, I hope my potential biases in this matter are fairly neutralized. -- JeffBillman (talk) 01:00, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

• Having said that, please note that templates such as the KSU template are designed for a university-wide listing of articles. Again, note Template:University of South Florida, to which I referred above. I agree that the Kent State template is, at present, tilted toward the Kent campus. The chief reason for this tilt, however, is simply because articles have not yet been written about the regional campuses. I would strongly encourage you and others to start articles about these regional campuses, as well as other topics relating to the campuses (e.g. campus histories, etc.). Feel free to use the USF-related articles as a model. As these articles are completed, let's place them in the Kent State template, making for a truly university-wide template. -- JeffBillman (talk) 01:00, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Other template examples with similar regional campus setups like Kent (i.e. a large main campus with smaller regional campuses) include Template: Ohio State University and Template: University of Akron. When I initially created the template for KSU, I used the Ohio State one and Template: University of Michigan as examples. Also, the "tilt" towards the Kent campus isn't just because articles have been created, but also because they were notable enough to be created. Programs exclusively at the regional campuses that are notable should most certainly have their own articles and be placed in the template. Right now we just need to create articles for the remaining regional campuses and expand all of them so we can get to the point of creating spin-off articles where appropriate. Does anyone think we could start a Kent State University Wikiproject, similar to Wikipedia:WikiProject Brigham Young University? --JonRidinger (talk) 02:02, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Two items

1. 1...there is some question as to whether the seal on this page is A) an actual seal of KSU-Stark and B) if it violates trademarks. The image is not tagged as a copyrighted image and is "self-made". While this may be true, because it uses elements of a trademarked image, the KSU seal, it likely still falls under trademark. Further, I have never seen any of the branch campuses use a seal other than the one used for all of Kent State that says "Ohio 1910" at the bottom. If they use their own versions, it certainly isn't on any of their websites or literature I have seen. This series of pictures from the KSU-Stark website shows the main seal used in commencement and for speakers.

I'm also not sure the picture of Dr. Boze on this page or her bio page Betsy Boze are allowed either. Just because someone uploads an image does not mean they have the rights to release it into the public domain. It's allowable if the actual photographer uploads it.

ANSWER PHOTO: The photo was taken by Kent photographer Bob Christie and uploaded either by him and/ with his written permission to use it for this.

This needs to be stated somewhere that Bob Christie took this photo and releases the rights of this to the public domain. The current photo tags do not say this. --JonRidinger (talk) 04:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

ANSWER SEAL:

Kent State Stark has had it's own seal for some time, just like the Honors College, or the College of Nursing. Both logos are used. Actually all three. The Kent logo is prominent in architecture, and nobody has been inspired enough to actually want to pay for changing them. The old Stark logo IS on the webpage, see for example, the strategic plan http://www.stark.kent.edu/CampusInfo/upload/Kent%20STARK%20CAMPUS%20PLAN_FINAL.pdf This is being phased out as the one you see on the wiki is phased in. It is on the web pages

The link provided does not work. I wasn't making references to architechture...the official seal of Kent State University is featured on podiums and hanging on the wall in the background of a commencement (as I pointed out from these photos in a previous post), hardly elements which would be difficult to change if Stark did indeed have its own official seal. Regardless, if Stark does, it is copyrighted and the current image on Wikipedia Commons is incorrectly tagged as a public domain image. Further, Kent State Stark is still a part of Kent State University, so until it becomes completely independent, the main KSU seal will supercede the Stark seal just like it supercedes the seals of the Honors College, College of Nursing, etc.--JonRidinger (talk) 04:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

1. 2...the name. The name of the article is currently "Kent State University Stark Campus" so that phrase needs to be in the opening paragraph. The current website of KSU-S still uses that exact phrase, so it is the "official" name even if the University System of Ohio calls it "Kent State University Stark". It is probably due to the fact that the map that identifies KSU-S is labeled "regional campuses", so saying "Stark Campus" would be redundant in that instance. I don't believe the University System of Ohio has the authority to change the name anyway...that would come from Kent State and the Stark campus itself. Regardless, until the official websites change, this article needs to reflect the current name and current alternate names that are used. Further, it is correct to call it Stark campus since it is not independent of the main campus like a UNC-Charlotte or UW-Green Bay is from UNC (Chapel Hill) and University of Wisconsin (Madison). Stark is a campus of Kent State University, not a sister school. --JonRidinger (talk) 16:57, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

ANSWER CAMPUS NAME: The old policy historically said that the first time a regional campus name is used, it should say the whole thing "Kent State University Stark Campus" after which we may call it Kent State Stark, Kent State University Stark, Kent Stark, etc. Pages 11-12 of Kent State University "Guide to University Style spell this out http://www.kent.edu/ucm/marketingguide/style/upload/guidetouniversitystyle-2rks.pdf

 "Effective January 2008
 Guide to University Style

 names of campuses —

 Always write out in full and capitalize; subsequent references should be capitalized:
  Kent State University Ashtabula Campus
  Kent State Ashtabula
  Ashtabula Campus.

 The Regional Campuses are as follows: Kent State Ashtabula, Kent State East
 Liverpool, Kent State Geauga, Kent State Salem, Kent State Stark, Kent State
 Trumbull and Kent State Tuscarawas."

For several years a conscious decision has been made to minimize the use of the word "Campus" in the title (but still to describe the physical location and facilities) while following the policy. The preferred name is Kent State University Stark, including on official documents (diploma covers, course schedules. Since the section is titled Kent State University Stark Campus, that is the only time that the word "campus" need be used.

That said, the name and mission of the campus has changed.

This is not an "old policy" as it is dated January 2008. This policy is exactly what is on the current article. You kept attempting to remove the first instance of the phrase "Kent State University Stark Campus" which was what was the problem. Notice there are no other uses of the full term in the entire article (other than titles), nor have I or any other editors tried to add them. Our edits have been in harmony with the KSU guidebook in first using the full official name for the page title, the infobox title, and the opening line, and then using a shorter approved name throughout the article. --JonRidinger (talk) 04:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

As another editor also pointed out, the powers that be at KSU-S do not make decisions on the content of a Wikipedia article. Until their own communications make it official, the article is still titled "Kent State University Stark Campus" since it is the official name used by KSU and KSU-S on their own site, so that phrase needs to stay in the opening paragraph. You'll note that throughout the rest of the article, "Kent State Stark" is the used phrase, since it is by far the most common. --JonRidinger (talk) 04:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

ANSWER CONTENT. Kent Stark's web page is being continuously updated. I'm sure that there is a reference somewhere to Kent State Stark Campus, but heck if I can find it other than in architectural photos! If you will let me know, I will have them removed. Hopefully not find KSU-S as you/she call us (except architecturally) as this is NOT an approved use of the abbreviation or the name (and it could be Kent State Salem or even Kansas State for that matter!)

"KSU-S" is a phrase I used in this discussion for a small abbreviation. You will not find it anywhere in the article ever. The phrase "Kent State University Stark Campus" is, however found on Stark websites and the very guidebook you referenced states that the official name of all the regional campuses is "Kent State University xxxxx Campus". --JonRidinger (talk) 04:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

This isn't about tying to own the wiki -- we want and need all the help we can get! But it OIS about getting the message correct and trying to refer questions back to one of the three people that can best answer questions and determine if the listing is accurate. Those people are Tina Biasella, Director of External Affairs, Rachel Figueroa, Marketing and Betsy Boze, Dean.

Since neither of you are on the ground at Kent State Stark, you are trying to second guess administrative decisions and estabilished policies and protocols.

This page does not belong to Kent State Stark in any way...it is about Kent State Stark. And really, even for those people to post they would also have to cite external sources as Wikipedia is not to be a "primary source," just like we have asked you to do as well as write neutral, encyclopedic content...see Wikipedia:NPOV. Basically, if it isn't published somewhere, it can't be a source, even if Dr. Boze herself edits the page. We are not second-guessing their edits since they have not edited the article, we are second-guessing your edits. Edits with proper sources won't be removed...see Wikipedia:Sources. You being at Stark does provide you with a closer perspective and maybe access to additional printed sources (books that may not be online, for instance), but being able to edit is irrelevant to where we are since the same characteristics need to be present on all pages: verifiable encyclopedic content that is well written, unbiased, and from reliable sources. You really need to study out the Wikipedia guidelines and policies if you really want this article to be a good article. Right now it is far from it. See Category: Wikipedia official policy. --JonRidinger (talk) 04:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

My reversion

I see tension has come to this page, by what seems to be an ill-informed editor. I've readded the bottom template as it is on all other Kent Stark pages and links specifically to this page; also I removed a red link to a deleted image. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 18:10, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Correct. To the editors who continue to ignore this: the Stark seal has been deleted, so please stop trying to place it in the infobox. All that is there is a red link to a blank page. In addition, the infobox title needs to be the same as the article title, which is "Kent State University Stark Campus".

Seccond: the KSU template needs to stay there since Kent Stark is a part of the larger Kent State University. Just because Kent Stark does not have a direct involvement in things at the main campus does not negate the fact that it is part of the University. You'll note there is a section for the regional campuses. It makes navigation between all pages part of Kent State easier. The template is for all of Kent State University, not just the Kent campus. I'm curious as to why the University System of Ohio template isn't removed since it has no mention of Kent State Stark in its article or on its template (or any regional campus). --JonRidinger (talk) 19:21, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Sources

Just a note for anyone who could help; we need to standardize and expand the citations and combine repeated sources. See WP:CITE#Citation Templates, using the "cite book", "cite web", and/or "cite news" templates. I'll do what I can! --JonRidinger (talk) 15:31, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Images

Thanks for all the images that have been uploaded for this article. My only worries are that the images need to directly relate to the content and that they are truly public domain images. Also watch out for putting too many images on a particluar page. Be careful with pictures of living people too. See WP:IMAGE for more guidelines. Also, be careful using logos. Even though KSU-Stark is accredited by the AACSB, the use of the AACSB on this article violates copyright and fair-use rules as far as I understand them since this article is about Kent State Stark, not AACSB. Wikipedia articles are not for promoting their particular subject, just information about them. If anyone has anything else to add, please do! It is nice to see this article grow and mature slowly but surely! --JonRidinger (talk) 01:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Another important thing to realize about images is that just because a photo is on Kent State Stark's website does not mean it is public domain and can be used here. In almost all cases it is not public domain. A user keeps uploading several photos from the KSU-Stark website for use in this article via Wikimedia Commons. This would only be allowed if the uploader can provide the actual license releasing the photos to the public domain or a link to that license. My past experience with the KSU archives is that they don't mind the usage of their photos on Wikipedia articles, but they do not release them to the public domain and so Wikipedia doesn't want them. The only times non-public domain images should be used is in the event a suitable public domain image can't be provided (like a picture of a building that has been torn down or extensively renovated or of a person who has died, etc.). There has to be someone at or near Kent State Stark who can go get pictures of the facilities and/or relevant events and upload those pictures to the public domain. --JonRidinger (talk) 21:18, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

AACSB Accredited

Kent State Stark is accredited by AACSB and is encouraged to use the "Accredited" logo. Refer to the AACSB details of using the logo for details. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BVBoze (talk • contribs) 02:15, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

While your edits are well intentioned, your comment speaks for itself: "Kent State Stark is encouraged...". This is not Kent State Stark. This an article on Wikipedia that is about Kent State Stark, so the use of the AACSB logo doesn't apply here; use of it is licensed and encouraged on Kent State Stark's own website and publications and this article does not fit into those categories. Again, please refer to and become familiar with Wikipedia's policies on images and logos. --JonRidinger (talk) 03:07, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:KSU seal.png

The image Image:KSU seal.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --23:43, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Official name consensus

Although the general term used for the campus is "Kent State Stark" or "Kent State University Stark" the full name is still "Kent State University Stark Campus" according to the University's most recent style guide in relation to all the regional campus names as seen here on pages 12-13. Examples from the document include "Always write out in full and capitalize; subsequent references should be capitalized: Kent State University Ashtabula Campus"; "The lecture is at the Kent State University Tuscarawas Campus"; "Kent State University Ashtabula Campus," and yes, there is also reference to "Kent State Stark" in the same paragraph, meaning "Kent State Stark" or other examples like it are acceptable shorter versions of the name. Now, first, we need to understand that the KSU style guide doesn't necessarily have to apply here since this is Wikipedia, not Kent State University. This seems to be an instance of a "preferred" short name, much like KSU now prefers to be called "Kent State" in short instead of just "Kent" like it was in the 1980s and 1990s. However, we do have at least one user who insists that the full name is not used at all anymore and is constantly editing this article to remove "campus" from the infobox title and introduction. So, I throw this out to any editors: should we change the article title to simply "Kent State University Stark"? "Kent State Stark" and "Kent State University Stark" seem to be the most common, though "Kent State University Stark Campus" is the full name and is hardly unused. I did a simple Google of "Kent State University Stark" and virtually every instance returned that phrase with "Campus" attached. My vote is obviously to keep it as is and I have not seen any official documentation from Kent State or Kent State Stark that the "Campus" has been dropped from the official names of the regional campuses. Other opinions and reasons would be appreciated. Thanks! --JonRidinger (talk) 02:20, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

The name, revisited

Oh Jon, please! You SO need to get over this!

I thought that this was finally resolved with all the links to the web page, official publications, and yes, even the blasted logo on the podium at official events. At least it was resolved to everyone else's satisfaction.

Despite your esteemed estimation of yourself, you really aren't the arbitor of Kent State University naming conventions. Let them call themselves whatever they want here. The Kent State Stark or Kent State University Stark names are totaly consistent with reality, their web presence, their publications, etc., etc.

We all understand that you like the old name for some reason. But times have changed and so has their mission.

TerriThomas (talk) 08:02, 2 November 2008 (UTC)Terri

I'm sorry, I didn't see any other consensus on the "name change" here and the link to the "blasted podium" wasn't posted on this page, it was posted on another user's talk page in response to a question/comment I posted, which leads me to believe that the same user may be using multiple accounts. If that is a false accusation, I apologize, but I am suspicious. Again, it is obvious the campus prefers "Kent State University Stark" or "Kent State Stark", however, Wikipedia naming conventions are what I'm concerned with here. In this case, based on documentation from Kent State University (in the link I provided to their 2008 style guide) as well as the always popular Google search for the most popular usage, "Kent State University Stark Campus" is not only still the "official" or full name of the campus (as well as the format for all campus names) but more importantly, it is also still the most commonly used name by third party sources in identifying the campus, which is important in naming articles on Wikipedia regardless of official names or preferred names. The shortened versions "Kent State University Stark" and "Kent State Stark" are obviously the preferred names as evidenced by the seal and the logo. It's along the lines of the Ohio State University article where a debate raged for months about the inclusion of "The" in the article title. The result was that while "The Ohio State University" is the official name of the university, Wikipedia naming conventions won out in the title which generally discourages using "The" to start an article title. Again, if experienced, third party editors feel we should change the name of the article to "Kent State University Stark" I will go along with it. Until it is changed, however, the title of the article is still Kent State University Stark Campus, so it needs to remain in the infobox title as well as in the opening line, which as I've pointed out countless times, is the only uses of that name in the entire article. The rest of the article uses "Kent State Stark" mostly. Again, the "mission" of Kent State Stark is irrelevant to the name of this article as is the campus's preferred name since this is an article about the campus, not by the campus. Please become familiar with Wikipedia policies, particularly the naming conventions and avoiding conflict of interests, before simply assuming that I'm doing this because I "like the 'old' name." Other editors' comments would be also be appreciated. --JonRidinger (talk) 13:43, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

I had added this to Jon's page a few weeks ago. But it looks like it needs to be repeated here, as well, so I am cc'in it. This references a comment he tagged saying that this had already been discussed and an implication that everyone had therefore agreed. Jon has now singularly reached a consensus (with himself only?) This is not a consensus, this is bullying, dictatorial and apparently a conflict of interest with reality and the rest of the editors.

Actually, I have provided evidence for why I believe what I do and that I'm after consistency in Wikipedia naming conventions, not simply "my preference" for the full name. Hardly "bullying." I was not claiming a consensus had been reached if you read my comments; I am looking for one from additional editors, particularly more experienced and third-party editors who have no connection with KSU. It is obvious what you feel about it and what I feel about it, so when that happens, we ask for help from those not involved as heavily in the article. --JonRidinger (talk) 13:43, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Use of "campus" in Kent Stark's name

Thank you for your note. Yes, I did see the discussion. I just disagree with your opinion.

The use of the word campus in the institution's name has been phased out nd isn't used by Kent State University (see their University Communication and Marketing page), by Kent State Universtiy Stark (I think you've already heard from them) or by the Univesity System of Ohio.

It is interesting why, against all conventional use, you are fighting for the use an obsolete term. Maybe you should actually visit the campus and see how they portray it on their signage and their officaial publications. See for example:

Their web page: http://www.stark.kent.edu/ - Kent State University Stark or their Fall 2008 magazine "Encompass" http://www.stark.kent.edu/CampusInfo/Magazine.cfm -- the cover says "Kent State University Stark." Page 2 shows the dean of "Kent State University Stark" and the Kent State University Stark Faculty Council Officers the Kent State University Stark Cabinet Members

Keep going and even the back cover and the return address is Kent State University Stark.

Now, about the seal.

You seem to think that it isn't/wasn't legitimate and took it upon yourself to remove and destroy the link to it.

Notice the Kent Stater's coverage of Rod Courdrry this week -- http://media.www.kentnewsnet.com/media/storage/paper867/news/2008/10/28/News/Former.daily.Show.Reporter.Brings.shock.Value-3509433.shtml

See the seal on the podium in the picture? It says Kent State University Stark.

No, not everything that says "campus" has been ripped off the walls and sent to the recycling bin, but it looks like as they replace things, they are using the new name and the new seal.

So while I respect that you apparently like the old name better for some reason, it doesn't seem to be your decision to make when ALL EVIDENCE IS TO THE CONTRARY. Yes, it is a campus, just like the Kent Campus is a campus and all college campuses are campuses. But that isn't their name.

What to include and what not to include

In looking at this article again, there are a lot of good-faith edits to expand the article, however, many seem to be made with little understanding of Wikipedia policies and the general purpose of the article. This is an encyclopedic article about Kent State Stark; it is not an article by Kent State Stark, nor is it here to promote Kent State Stark or Kent State University. It is here to educate people about the campus and why it's important, not to give a highly detailed account of everything that happens or has happened. Read over WP:NOT to get an idea of what should and shouldn't be included in this article, or any Wikipedia article for that matter. Be careful with adding board member names or anything that resembles a directory as well as long lists (like the Featured Speakers list). Also, check out WP:UNI for examples of high-quality articles on other colleges and universities for ideas and models of what to include here and how to set it up. Some examples include Michigan State University, Duke University, and Ohio Wesleyan University among many others. Take note of how pictures are used within the article and how much detail is included in various sections. In the end, this should sound like an encyclopedic article, not an online guide or magazine article. --JonRidinger (talk) 03:28, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

well, you cant include betsy boze anymore. she is gone in mid-semester and everyone is eagerly waiting for the real reasons for her departure.

Templates

Please do not remove templates unless the problems they are there to help with have been resolved. For now, there is a refimprove template because several sections do not have any references at all and a cleanup template because there are a number of organizational problems such as the lead, small sections, order of sections, and general content. Some of the existing sources need to be checked to make sure they are still valid, and others need to be placed in the appropriate citation template. There is also promotional language that needs to be addressed to make the article more neutral. --JonRidinger (talk) 07:04, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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