Talk:Kakar

202.147.176.37

You posted this comment in the article . Kakar are khatris from the Punjab and its adjoining areas. They are basically Hindus, while some of them converted to Islam due to whatever reasons. Islam came much later. Khatris are basically Kshatrias, but because there were not wars going on all the time, so these people took up other professions like teaching, trade and other. People in Pothohar belt and regions of Afghanistans were Hindus or Buddhists, and a lot of texts and scriptures have been written by Rishis around this region. Queen Gandhari and her brother Shakuni who also find mention in the Mahabharata, were royals from Afghanistan region. Around 10th century and later, many conversions have taken place, due to conquests from Middle East, and this area has lost it indigenous culture and tradition that encompasses Hinduism..

Kakar's are NOT Khatri's nor do anyone see them as Khatri's. They are a Pashtun tribe of Ghurghast origin from Ghazni who moved into adjacent areas like other Pashtun tribes. Mahabharata is not a history book and its based of Hindu mythology. Therefore i really don't know why you are trying to connect them to imagerniey "rishis" or indians. 99.247.62.117 (talk) 04:46, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

I don't think this belongs in the article

The author of this article is Sharjeel Ahmed Khan Kakar and published firstly in wikipedia in 2004 then 2005-6 and 2007.to contact the orignal author of the article do e-mail on kakarafghan@gmail.com and kakarkhel@yahoo.co.uk. This information was added by the Farooq Haider Kakar, Abdul Bari Kakar and Sharjeel Ahmed Khan Kakar. They the students of Buitms and PCBA. They are very pure Kakars. They love all people from the Kakar community. --Double edge86 17:33, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Kakar is also a pashtoon tirb but as you my article of Ghengat you people only showing big and famous things not small tribes has right to be in wiki pity Hamza rajpoot khan (talk) 05:30, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Punjabi Kakars?

This article is about the Kakar Pashtun (Afghan) tribe. THis tribe has very little to do with Punjabis. Please make a spearate article for Punjabi Kakars.zakka 15:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Punjabi Kakar Information has moved

The Punjabi Kakar irtin has been moved to Kakar (Punjab).zakka 16:03, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Sher Shah

I have read articles mentioning the connection between Sher Shah Suri and the Kakar tribe, can a citation for this be provided? I have founf one for the Sur Pashtun tribe to be descended from the Ghori tribe, sharing connection with the Sherwani's who also wrote Sher Shah's memoirs. Can anyone locate a reference for this and add it to this article?--Shanti bhai (talk) 11:47, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

as of May 2010

Please add citations and footnotes to this article rather than simply ignoring the quality control templates and continuing to add unverified information or gibberish. Cheers!--Jhelyam (talk) 13:12, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

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+++ Kalkar Najin, in his book "Sher Shah and His Times", asserts that His father was born in an area between Suleman mountain and present Kandahar province. he mentioned the name of that place in his book which is "Sargargi" in (Toba Kakar Ranges), where the Kakar tribe's sub-branch Ahmed-Khel has been living for centuries and the area is still known as DA SRO TAAL. Toba Kakar is now a Pakistani area bordering Afghanistan. NOTE: Kalkar Najin was an official of Suri Sultanate. Sher Shah Suri Kakar — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.100.49.251 (talk) 02:41, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Eighteen sons

There is a list of 18 biological sons but the list contains 22 names. Did I miss something or does it need to be changed to 22 biological sons? Dreambeaver (talk) 21:54, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

You missed about four years of unsourced editing. I reverted it to the original list from 2007, though I don't have any evidence that it is any more credible than the current list. --Muhandes (talk) 22:50, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

List of non notable names

Please dont add non notable names of people who dont already have existing Wikipedia articles, have removed many --thanks 39.54.116.66 (talk) 06:01, 19 November 2013 (UTC)Hilda Khan Pakistan

Removing fake information reference regarding Mashwani

Dears, Someone have refferenced wrongly to mashwanis tribe living in the area, i have ciated and made the wrting with right source and removed fake vendalism. Thanks--Syed Saqib Imad 19:36, 13 August 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Innocentbadshah (talk • contribs)

Punjabi Kakars? 2018-2019 12 years later

I saw this confusion even took place 12 years ago on this wiki page in 2007. People confuse the Kakar with the Punjabi clan Kakar whom both are 2 separate things as you can read on the talk page here. Kakar is an Afghan/Pashtun tribe in the Loy Kandahar region of Afghanistan-Pakistan and Kakar/Kakkar is a Punjabi clan/Surname among the Khatri People. For the people who do not know the Hindus of Afghanistan and Pashtun/Baloch areas of Pakistan are Khatri, Kakar among them. This caused the confusion for 100%. The Khatri Punjabi clan including Kakar/Kakkar and Pashtun Kakar live next to each other in the region of Quetta where these women came from, I found that weird therefore I looked for more references and sources. There are more than 30 sources about the Hindus of Afghanistan and Western Pakistan specifically (including their history) vs this 1 Article (Also published by several other publishers). Those Hindus are/were Pashtun or Balochi in many ways by Language and Culture, They adopted the language and culture of the region they were in. This source explains that: Language Policy and Language Conflict in Afghanistan and Its Neighbors: The Changing Politics of Language Choice

References

For all other sources and information about the Hindu "Pashtuns", I have listed them in this Talk page Talk:Pashtuns

This confusion of the Pashtun Kakar and Khatri Kakkar caused the error along with the fact that they have adopted the Pashto language and culture. This led to the confusion of seeing them, Kakar. I Think many people are mixing both Kakar, which leads to this confusion, again.Casperti (talk) 02:18, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

@Anupam:@Khestwol:Casperti (talk) 02:20, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

User:Casperti, sorry, but the source is clearly speaking about the Pashtun tribe, not any Punjabi tribe. The reference explictly mentions that these Hindu Pashtuns are from the Kakar tribe of Pashtuns. Suhasini Haidar reported on this here:

The women are part of a community of Pushtun Hindus that lived in the Baloch areas of Quetta, Loralai, Bori and Maikhter, and belong to the Kakari tribes still living there. 1947 was a second partition for their villages, as the British-imposed Durand Line in 1893 had already given their villages to Pakistan, despite the people’s Pushtun lineage.

The source makes it clear that these Hindu Pashtuns are a part of the Kakar tribe in Balochistan, not any other tribe. BBC confirms this here in their documentary about Hindu Pashtuns. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 02:32, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Again same ladies. Same story. Same article. Can you find other sources about them to make it more reliable? In meanwhile I wont change anything here. Casperti (talk) 17:04, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

@Anupam: Yes Anupam, they are indeed Kakar and yes they are from that area. These ladies are the only ones who are causing this confusion. The Pashtun area Hindus are following Khatri Hinduism and most of them were Kakar/Kakkar as I showed you. But it is a different Kakar. People are mixing these two up. That's my point. You showed me the BBC article but is again about the same ladies. I tried hard to find other sources about these "Kakar" they were nowhere to be found. I do not care If I make a mistake, you can correct me. But I just know there is no possibility of a Gharghasti (Kakar was a person) tribe that is founded After Islam having Hindu Khatri offspring so that will mean they converted from Islam to Hinduism, no records about that. There is indeed a possibility of having 2 kinds of Kakars in 1 region, who both have the same culture and Language, and having confusion. The ladies even admit they didn't know much about their ancestors. It makes it very unreliable. After 70 years claiming to be Kakar with 1 K.Casperti (talk) 17:04, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Something we all can agree upon: Anupam you noted they are also know as Sheen Khalai. Sheen Khalai is not a name. Sheen Khalai is the Blue face tattoo spots on Pashtun and Baloch women. Widely known fact. Sheen means Blue Khalai means Face dots. So I will delete that in meanwhile. I will also mail some institutes etc. to look for records about the Hindus. ps Dont change the title I am discussing the confusion of Khatri Kakar and Pashtun Kakar. so that is the topic. Further I won't do anything before a good conclusion comes out.Cheers Casperti (talk) 17:04, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

I found the concluding sources. btw Several Indian actors and Bollywood singers were even put on this wiki page. Kakar and Kakkar(sometimes spelled as Kakar by some people) are distinct from each other therefore it is obvious those should be removed and should be added to the Hindu Punjabi Kakkar/Kakar. Furthermore, here are the sources of the Balochistan Quetta Loralai Hindus: . And I found old Censuses where it is clearly noted that there were Hindu Khatri Kakkar to be found in the Balochistan area (Quetta) and NWFP. They were registered separately from their Pashtun neighbors. and its clearly noted they were Kakkar from the Khatri Hindu clans. All censuses of 1901 1921 and 1941, they are noted as Hindu Kakkar/Kakar Khatri. . Casperti (talk) 15:14, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

I looked up for the Sheen khalai film ladies and I found that they are the only ones claiming to be 100% ethnic Pashtun of all "Pashtun/Afghan" Hindus. the filmmaker is this called lady Shilpi Batra Adwani, she is everywhere claiming her things for her Film. It is rather a claim than a Historical or scientific fact. So it is better to state it as a claim because she is really the only one (with her grandmother and relavatives). Casperti (talk) 15:14, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

References

Irrelvant

After the partition of British India, Hindu members of the Kakar tribe became settled in Unniara, Rajasthan, India.

I am removing this information because its irrelevant to this page. The lady in the article talks about "Kakari tribes" even though the Kakar is one tribe and are all 100% Muslims. I think this confusion comes from the fact that there is also a Punjabi caste called "Kakkar." See here; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakkar

I believe this would be better suited there. Akmal94 (talk) 03:17, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

EDIT: I had to deleted the above again because it's confusing the Kakkar with the Pashtun Kakar tribe and these members don't have Hindus among them. Also regarding the source of Christine Noelle Karimi, its not reliable because she references H.G. Ravetry who was a British officer in India not a historian and she also speaks from a biased tone against Pashtuns, especially the Kakars by trying to separate them from other Pashtuns. @Ketabtoon: Thoughts? Akmal94 (talk) 02:20, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

See WP:OR. Your research is currently rid of reliable sources. Accesscrawl (talk) 05:32, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Sorry but a source from the BBC of someone claiming to be a "Hindu Kakar" is not reliable and is considered original research. Looking at the past discussions on this board, they all agree that ladies belong to the Indian Kakkar as opposed to the Pashtun Kakar tribe. I want someone else's input on this because 2 Indian editors keep reverting my edit. Akmal94 (talk) 14:49, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Haven't you seen what they said above or in the above section? BBC is a reliable source and this material is not only provided by BBC, but multiple other references. Your personal analysis is WP:OR. Additionally, singling out editors based on their nationality is discriminatory and violates WP:NPA. --Yoonadue (talk) 03:40, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

I have read the entire discussion and none of the sources mention Hindus among Kakars, the OP's sources only mention a a Khatri tribe called "Kakkar" with a hindu minority living in Peshawar. Nothing about the Pashtun tribe of Kakar's having hindu members. Also i never said the BBC is not a reliable source but in this case, its considered a primary source because the claim of the two individuals is a personal claim and therefore its considered WP:PRIMARY in this case. I want the opinion of other users part of the PashtunProject such as @Ketabtoon: or @Khestwol: Akmal94 (talk) 17:16, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Then you should also watch that none of the sources you have provided make reference to a Khatri tribe. They only make reference to Hindu members of the Pakhtun tribe known as Kakkar. You need to re-read Wikipedia policy statements on reliable citations. These are secondary sources and not only BBC, but many other citations mention the Hindu members of the Pakhtun Kakkar tribe. Note that Hamid Karzai, the leader of Afghanistan, has recognized them as Pashtun Hindus. I am repeating sources mentioned earlier such as [1][2][3][4] Now it's time for you to stop as we have no consensus here to remove this material. Ashishkafle (talk) 02:58, 19 May 2020 (UTC) 

The Kakkar is NOT the same as the Pashtun Kakar tribe. The first is a Khatri tribe while the latter is Pashtun, and if you read the discussion above one of the users makes the distinction as well. What Hamid Karzai says or feel is irrelevant since he is the ex president of Afghanistan, not a historian on the subject. I am really tired of repeating myself that "TheHindu"is a PRIMARY source and not a secondary source because this story is only published by Indian outlets. I still want a consensus because only 3 Indian users keep reverting my edits and are pushing this proposition that these Hindu Kakkars are the Pashtun Kakars. Akmal94 (talk) 04:29, 11 June 2020 (UTC)