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Talk:Jujutsu/Archive 2

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Latest comment: 17 years ago by Light current in topic Actually
Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4

What's in a name?

Latest comment: 17 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Reading through this entry, I am confused (and somewhat concerned) with the irrelevant and debatable information found under "What's in a name?" in reference to a mega-brief summary of western interests in Japan leading to the Meiji restoration.

I don't see the need to have this information here when it is found elsewhere in Wikipedia and additionally it is very poorly written with an obvious neutrality issue.

Well the simple answer here is to find the quote from the other article and transplant the better article in to this article. It is useful to cross reference information on the meiji restoration to the history of ju jitsu, as the restoration had a profound effect on the development of ju jitsu. Dbol 00:55, 12 February 2006

For example: "To this affect we can say that western powers affectively try to force other nations cultural practices into extinction by the treat of use of force, demanding that they adopt western standards of civility."

I don't know what this has to do with jujutsu, specifically with the name.

I have been practicing for ~five years and have a decent background, but I do not feel that I am knowledgeable enough to make fair and reasonable changes in this topic. However if this "What's in a name" thing doesn't get cleaned up by others more knowledgeable than I, then I may edit out the irrelevant portions.

--Babbles 03:34, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

The author writes, "the emperor instructed Jigaro Kano to re-organise the martial arts making them acceptable to a more westernised Japan." That is patently, demonstrably false, and I suspect the author knows as much. Equally untrue is the statement that "Those who would not accept Kano's Jiu-Do emigrated to Britain, France and the US. Thus Ju Jutsu became established in the west as Jiu-Do was taking hold in Japan." This is insultingly, and again, I suspsect willfully misleading. 67.71.84.224 05:31, 12 January 2006

Actually you are partly right and partly wrong. The emperor did of course not instruct jigaro kano. I suspect that kano never had an audience with the emperor. However, it is correct that the japanese authorities did approach kano. For a reference see isbn: 0804830274. Dbol 00:55, 12 February 2006

There has been much talk about the article being written from a certain point of view, I think it is most obvious that all aspects of this discussion has been written from individual points of view. Not only am I of Japanese descent but have also studied many forms of martial arts from asian and pacific islander to native american and find this article and discussion to be off the mark. I do "see" that there have been attempts at good intention but really reading on topics such as jutsu is different from living them. For those who truly wish to be a part of the martial arts it is important to know the true history. Without knowledge of what you are doing are you really doing it? After all, perfect practice makes perfect. As for the comment on what percentage of fights end up on the ground both statements are true... From a certain POV. Most unregulated or street fights do end up on the ground. Over 90 percent is infact a fair reasoning. The best way to understand this, pick a fight! However, when there isn't so much at stake like when one is sparring, why would one think to mess one's hakama? As far as ju vs. Jiu there is an obvious difference, not is better than the other, they are both smaller aspects of Shaolin which is what all major japanese martial arts is based on. This can be ascertained by migration patterns of asian peoples and the feudal history that dictated behavior. By the by ju jitsu is not kicking it is close quarters combat utilizing grappling techniques inorder to subdue your opponent and escape and is a derivative of judo. 64.40.48.46 04:27, 21 January 2006

Six comments:

  1. Being of genetic japanese stock does not make you 'well read'.
  2. Studying many different martial arts does not make you more of an expert on the history of maritial arts. Technique study is one thing history study is another.
  3. "Perfect" practice does indeed make perfect, however, quoteing age old adages does not add weight to the points you make.
  4. It is silly to argue about statistics of street fights, because nobody knows or will ever construct a scientifically ridged test to measure the number of streetfights that go to the ground. It seems to me that we could all agree on the following: it is a good idea to master many aspects of fighting if you wish to be proficient at self defence. I think nobody can argue effectively with that.
  5. Hakama are quite functional, and whilst fighting in them, samurai did not care if they got soiled. Its disrespectfull to imagine a samurai as somehow gentelmanly and vain. They were soldiers and killing was the profession of many of them.
  6. After reading your comment on shaolin, i realise you must be a young man, (or else not well read). The shaolin temple was built in the years 495/7 ad. It is a name of a temple. In chinese, martial arts are coined "gung fu". In japan they decided on the term "ju jitsu", but actually there are many japanese terms for martial arts. Whilst it is true that chinese monks have been documented as visiting japan, fighting systems have been passed down for over 2000 years. Of course, the term ju jitsu is relatively modern.

[The history of Japan and the doctrine of the martial arts in particular don't give a definite or precise answer to this question of the birth of Ju Jitsu.The Japanese national records and the many manuscripts from various schools of martial arts refer to ancient methods of combat codified long before actual records were kept. The first records are said to have been introduced sometime in the sixth century.] Even by those standards, japanese martial arts have been around almost as long as shaolin gung fu, making them functionally quite distinct. Ju jitsu was used by the aristocracy up to the 11 century. In 1156, the samurai began to monopolise the development of ju jitsu thus coinciding with the begining of the feudal period.

By the way, karate-jitsu is one branch of ju jitsu where they do indeed kick alot, alas it was not effective against full body armour worn in battle. Dbol 00:55, 12 February 2006

Again the 90% of street fights wind up on the ground camp rears it's ugly head. This figure is a made up statistic with no relationship to truth except that so many people have bought into it. Read above about the actual statistic that has been bastardized all over the place to sell ground fighting systems. From the LAPD - their use of force encounters wound up on teh ground 60% of the time. AND - it's important to note that most of the time the police are trying to bring a suspect to the ground to facilitate cuffing and arrest. If anybody can find me one piece of well researched evidence that actually studied civillain self-defense encounters, I will eat my hat. However, there aren't any. Any time you hear someone spout the 90% statistic you can assume they are using a made up statistic that they don't truly understrand. 141.149.181.174 19:27, 23 February 2006

With regards to the LAPD guy. You said that most of the time one oponent is knocked down. How is that not taking things to the ground? One person will nearly always be more dominant than the other, this will either result in a clinch or one oponent hitting the ground. If you have decent ne-waza or bjj skills you will be able to take your oponent down with you if he keeps on attacking. Unless one person is completely knocked out or the one of the persons walk away I would consider this to be a fight on the ground.

Actually, if you're knocked to the ground, chances are that if the person who did it wanted anything more than to humiliate you, show off or vent some frustration, (s)he'll make sure you're out cold even before your head hits the ground, and *then* keep on attacking you until they're sure you won't move any time soon.. if ever. There are any number of ways of dealing with being taken down if you're actually still conscious, many of which involve attacking on the way down, kicking their knees out, or quite simply getting back up in a hurry. If they follow you down, that brings them inside your reach, and doesn't really make much sense; you could thank them by applying their weight to their soft tissue and to the ground (which doesn't mind nearly as much) via your bone structure ;) 212.169.96.218 03:00, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually

Latest comment: 17 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Jiu jitsu as i've practised, is locking, striking and throwing. Also, I have always understood that Judo was a derivative of Jiu Jitsu, not the other way round. 145.8.163.25 14:36, 27 January 2006

Judo is a derivative/extension of Japanese Jujutsu (which is what it sounds like you're practicing). Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is a derivative/extension of Judo.
Dave3141592 00:28, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Wrong! Both ju do and bjj are derivatives of major schools of ju jutsu. They are both divergances. Think about it, how could judo with all its rules ever de-evolve into bjj? If you use bjj in a judo competition, you would be disqualified immediatly. Bjj is closer to ju jitsu than judo. In the modern era, most divergences tend to lead to dilution of techniques in order to maintain safe competition. Bjj is less safe than judo, ergo it is not born of judo. Dbol 01:02, 12 February 2006

Actually, you're both wrong. Judo and Jujutsu are merely semantically different. "Ju" can be translated as "gentle" or "subtle" (although its actual meaning in the words "judo" and "jujutsu" is disputed), . "Do" and "jutsu" are often used synonimously (kyudo, kyujutsu; jodo, jojutsu; etc.) "do" is often translated as "way of", and "jutsu" as "art" or "technique". So, "Judo" means "the way of subtlety" and "Jujutsu" means "the art of subltety", both mean roughly the same thing and can be used to describe a technique in martial arts in which the practitioner uses not primarily his own strength, but the strength and weight of his opponent as his weapon. Roobydo 22:09, 20 February 2006

The literal translation of Jutsu (art). The literal translation of Do (way). Ju (gentle, flexible) Jutsu (art). Ju (gentle, flexible) Do (way). Jigaro Kano started the use of the term 'Do', to distinguish his brand of martial art (the use of less dangerous techniques etc)from schools who refused to undergo change. Many Ju Jitsu exponents left Japan and set up schools in the west rather than conform to Japanese governments demand to reform martial art schools. Those that conformed named their new art with the term Do. Jui-Do, Karate-Do, Aiki-Do. Nothing to do with symantic language and everything to do with the change that occured in Japanese martial arts during the Meiji restoration period. Not withstanding, many western schools use Japanese language in-appropriatly out of ignorance. Its not so important really. If you go to the main page, you can see a link to a website that lists all the old schools of Japanese Ju Jutsu. All modern schools that maintain sylabus from those origninal schools should use the term Jutsu/Jitsu. 129.67.4.64 21:30, 23 February 2006

...................There's a lot wrong here............................

A lot of this article is inncorrect, a hell of a lot. I could spend days tellling you where you've gone wrong, but i won't so here's a few points relating to the article not the comments above.

1. The term Ju in jujutsu is accepted is Japan as flexiable, in this particular 'phrase'. That does not mean gentle as the tori is gentle upon the uki....flexiable as in the tori can move from one waza to the next with seamless efficiency.

2. You are sadly one of the poor people who have got caught up in the western interpretations of jujutsu. The japanese find the BJJA and their ilk embarassing and funny. As an Aikidoka & jujutsuka having trained in japan i have shown BJJA video to sensei.

3. You will find no mention of KATA in classical jujutsu. This is very incorrect. In the west KATA have appeared in the less reputable Ju-Jitsu schools and cannot be more than 30 years old. This is a reaction to Kano sensei introducing the KATA idea to Judo with the Nage-No-Kata etc. This is correct. You have to remember that within the Budokan Funikoshi Sensei (the founder of Shotokan karate-do), O-Sensei (Founder of Aikido) and Kano sensei (Founder of Judo) were associates. Kano founded Nage-No-Kata based on the Karate way of training. In judo you have the 3 K's that you also have in Karate - Kihon (Basics), Kata (Form) & Kumite (Randori).

4. It was not just the Samurai who would learn jujutsu, this is a common misconception. The samurai were the priviladged rank of the army, retainers to the shogun or the daimyo they served. The other factions of the army would also learn to fight. Ashi-Garu, Yabasame etc. The Bushi.

5. The training was rough and ready. The idea of sensei as a teacher, a formal class, grading, grades did not exist till the modern times. This was a time when the whole country was feuding. You learn't your waza the same as the modern armys do, at basic training.

6. The Gi is a modern thing. Traditional dress for a Bushi (correct term) would have been, among other things a cottern shirt, an obi (a wide belt, wrapped aroung the body a number of times not tied in the modern way) a nappy style underwear and hakama (if outside, tied in at the ankles with a set of tabi) maybe also a kimono.

7. Karate developed independently from jujutsu. Karate is from the islands of Okinawa. They think of themselves as an independant people, with their own esoteric language. Kara-te is a term used when it was introduced to mainland japan as a more markatable term as the older term Okinawa-te was distastful as the japanese thought of the okinawan's as their lessers. Okinawa-te orriginated from the sea ports of these islands. An older term than this is Tsang-te or 'china hand'. There you have the gung-fu link. The chinese invaded okinawa a hell of a lot. The most traditional okinawa-te ryu like Goju-ryu contain waza can be found in classical kung-fu schools. As the japanese invaded okinawa and took control karate was modified from a bunch of brawling sailors to a way of fighting back against their rulers - you can find a number of anti jujutsu waza in shoren-ryu. How then did jujutsu influence karate? And yes i am aware of wado ryu, a style of karate founded by one of 'shoto's' students. An amalgamation of Karate and jujutsu.....but ive you have ever seen this style is apparent that they know some katate but not as well as the katare-ka they know some jujutsu but not as well as the jutsuka. They can spar well tho.........but as we all know sparring isn't fighting.

Rather than spend days telling us whats wrong, why dont you just try to fix the page? It'll be quicker (probably) 8-)--Light current 14:17, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Missing Elements

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The origional article makes no mention of the extremely important elements of Hara/Tanden, ki (Chinese Qi), Haragei, or Zazen. --Roobydo 22:24, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


I'd like to add that it doesnt matter what people and practioners in japan thinks of bjj. The results speak for themselves. There are several grappling competitions where any style is welcome such as the abu dhabi combat club. Pretty much anything is allowed when it comes to submission, and if you look at the results brazilian jiu jitsu practitioners are pretty dominant in most weightclasses and especially if you look at the winners.

Please don't get upset when people debate schools and systems effectiveness. Ju jutsuka are not meant to have an ego driven philosphopy. We view our art as a purely combat driven art with its origins in Samurai Japan. That is the history. Effectiveness was not discussed in those times, accept in combat where there were no rules, nor any videos of opponents to watch in order to pre develope strategies to fit opponents. BJJ is a system evolved to fit a sporting environment. It is to be respected for what it is meant for. If we introduce armour and weapons BJJ would quickly become obsolete. Indeed, introduce any foreign circumstance into another martial art contest and whatever the system, it would have to re adapt. In a fight you should not worry about winning or losing (Ref Bruce lee: Tao of Jeet kune do). Its about time that people read more about Ju Jutsu philosophy and indeed Eastern philophophy in general. These philosophies are at the heart of all ancient combat forms.

______________________________________________________________________________

Sumo is what Jiu-jitsu developed out of, so where is the reference to Sumo?

Japanese philosophy and the effect on Ju Jutsu

Latest comment: 17 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The philosophy underlying Japanese culture pervades deeply into the martial arts in the context of personal values and combat strategies. The elements of Hara, Haragei and Zazen impact more upon personal perspective of a Ju Jutsuka than they do on technique. That said, controlling breathing during combat carries advantage.

Good posture is valued highly especially in Aiki and Karate systems, and in modern times often to the detriment of developing Bunkai. However, posture is often over emphasized to the expense of learning the small details which make techniques work. Hence this is a good example of western thought lacking Haragei. Ki is an important facet of Ju Jutsu technique. Being able to control one's centre of gravity coupled with the desire to refine technique to remove unnecessary movements are skills that separate good performers from poor performers. Often, the young prefer to emphasize physical training. Chikara is the cultivation of physical prowess, and is also an important facet in martial arts training, especially if you lack development of technique. When physique declines with age, those who have cultivated the development of Ki tend to be able to continue training and even improve technique and skill. Those who fail to develop Ki, and prefer to use more strength in the application of technique tend to lose performance ability with age. 129.67.4.64 17:51, 25 February 2006

Actually, it bears pointing out that the word Ki merely refers to "earth energy", or more plainly, "physical power". It is concerned with the force delivered (what matters), rather than the contractile strength of a person's muscles (often assumed to equate to the former).

Most essential to delivering such force, is to bear in mind the basic laws of physics: a force acts between two entities. Your muscular contractile strength is your maximum potential, but other factors, such as skeletal alignment, will limit your use of this strength. Energy spent pushing you back and compressing you is energy lost; by supporting a punch with proper alignment of the spine and feet, the force acts between the ground and the target.

Which do you think will suffer more? ;)

Most koryu ju jutsu embody this in their body mechanics, just like the "internal" martial arts from China tend to. As to the "mystical energies" western people often refer to as "ki", without sidetracking into any debates about that, that would be referred to as "heaven energy", and presumably not be taught below menkyo kaiden level, no?

As to breathing, if the other person has enough skill to keep you from fleeing, while keeping you engaged, for long enough for your breathing to matter, chances are you'll forget all about it. Which is not to say that it might not be worthwhile, however. 212.169.96.218 03:16, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

hara

1. [Common Usage] abdomen, belly; an area a few centimeters below the navel; considered the place where the vital energy is stored and generated 2. 'Belly'. The human body's inner centre of gravity and the source of breath (energy), which is traditionally located about four centimetres below the navel, between the latter and the vertebral column. According to Japanese belief, it is here that profound vital forces reside. Through the Hara men and women can communicate with the universal energy, and there Ki is found. 'Deep' breathing must take place from the Hara, for it is from there that all the individual's physical and psychic forces emanate. The art of concentrating all mental and physical forces on this point is called Haragei. In Buddhism, Hara is called Tanden, the Japanese translation of the Chinese word Dantian, 'cinnabar field', the focal point for adepts of the Dao (Tao). Also called Seika-no-itten. See Ki, Aiki, Kime, Ibuki, Tanden. 3. (hah-rah) "abdomen" Gravity and mass in the human body, traditionally considered in Eastern thought to be the seat of the soul and center of ki. Means the same as tanden. 5. The pit of the stomach; there is a Japanese belief that the centre of a person's being is to be found in the hara. 7. stomach, abdomen, eg., shitahara-lower abdomen 10. The part of the body, usually equated with the abdomen, where the chi, or life energy, is located. Since chi is essential to the performance of the martial arts, locating this spot is a technique practiced by many martial artists. Attention to the hara will increase one's ability to call on one's chi when necessary, which will increase power. The art of calling up this energy is called haragei. The hara is also called tanden, dantian, and tan tien. 129.67.4.64 17:10, 25 February 2006

haragei

A nice explaination is located at http://members.aol.com/sokogakuen/haragei.html 129.67.4.64 17:17, 25 February 2006

Zazen

A wikipedia article exists on Zazen, so no point in repeatition, here is the link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazen 129.67.4.64 17:20, 25 February 2006

Issues with edits in the discussions

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Whomever is editing people's comments needs to stop it or otherwise make proper citations. It is very difficult to follow and read, not to mention a very unacceptable practice. There are plenty of ways to contribute without causing massive confusion. Babbles 03:56, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Translation of Japanese version of Jūjutsu article

Latest comment: 18 years ago3 comments1 person in discussion

I am not a Jūjutsu expert. However, I do speak several Asian languages including Japanese. In light of the controversy about the article, it occurred to me that the non-Japanese speaking readers might be interested in what the Japanese themselves have to say about Jūjutsu in their own language. To that end, I have endeavored to translate (to the best of my ability) the entire Japanese ja.Wikipedia version of this article into English. This website helped out tremendously in the "Main Styles of Jūjutsu" section. I have placed the translation here in order to give everyone an opportunity to compare the translated ja.Wikipedia version with the en.Wikipedia version. Finally, a note on spelling for non-Japanese speakers (I use ū and ō to represent long vowels vice oo/oh and uu e.g. Jūjutsu instead of Juujutsu). A-cai 15:51, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Main Article

  • Begin Translation
 
Scene from a Jūjutsu training session circa 1920

Jūjutsu (柔術) is a unique form of unarmed combat that originated in Japan. Jūjutsu can roughly be divided into two categories:

  1. the “armor and helmet combat" that was devised in the Warring States Period for purposes of battle
  2. the “bare skin martial art” that began to emerge during the Edo period

Extensive research has verified that many styles (流派, ryūha) of Jūjutsu were in existence. In order to better comprehend just how many styles there were, one might take into consideration the numerous alternate names that were used such as: Yawara (柔 or 和 or 和術), Taijutsu (体術 or 胎術), Kenpō (拳法), Koshinomawari (腰廻), Kogusoku-jutsu (小具足術), Zajutsu (挫術 or 座術 or 莝術 or 坐術), Taizajutsu (体座術 or 体挫術 or 体坐術 or 体莝術), Hakuda (白打), Kumiuchi (組討 or 組打 or 組討術 or 組打術), Yoroi Kumiuchi-jutsu (鎧組討術 or 鎧組打術 fighting in armor), Shushajutsu (取捨術), Torite (捕手), and Hobaku (捕縛) to name a few.

Overview

It is thought that Jūjutsu (at least the fighting while dressed in armor variety), in its earliest form, consisted of techniques that were meant to supplement armed combat on the battlefield. To that end, there were also many styles that included a body of techniques whereby a person armed with a small knife or with bare hands and feet would be pitted against an armed opponent. From among those styles, there began to emerge the beginnings of what we now know as Jūjutsu, as represented by styles like Takenouchi ryū (竹内流). These styles consisted of groups (clans) whose members were compelled to memorize a set of techniques that were based on the principle of Jū; as a result, these groups began to be feared throughout the country.

In modern times, due to the influence of Budō (武道, combat as a spiritual or artistic pursuit), a typical person will have a strong image of Jūjutsu as a form of grappling whose main body of techniques include such things as throws and joint locks. Of course, there were indeed many styles in the Edo period that were focused on techniques that involved restraining an opponent; and indeed such techniques are a defining characteristic of Jūjutsu as a whole. However, there were also many styles that offered extensive training in striking techniques. For purposes of preparing a practitioner to defend against vicious blows, there were some styles that featured the use of thick custom-made protection gear. Never-the-less, throwing, ground-work (wrestling), restraining a larger samurai and stopping a knife-wielding opponent without being injured became emblematic of Japanese Jūjutsu.

Jūjutsu as the ancestor of modern martial arts

Many modern day Budō (Martial arts) can trace their roots to Jūjutsu; these include Jūdō (柔道), Aikidō (合気道), and Japanese Kenpō (拳法). Many of these later martial arts focused on a particular subset of Jūjutsu techniques. For instance, Jūdō focuses on Nagewaza (投げ技 – throwing techniques). Kōsen Jūdō specializes in Newaza (寝技- mat work;ground fighting). Aikidō specializes in defense against weapons, multiple attackers, throwing techniques (especially when surrounded), and Kansetsuwaza (関節技 - joint locks). Japanese Kenpō specializes in striking as well as striking followed by take downs. Jūdō's founder, Jigorō Kanō (嘉納治五郎), based Jūdō's techniques on Jūjutsu styles such as Kitō ryū (起倒流) and Tenjin Shinyō ryū (天神真楊流). Aikidō's founder, Morihei Ueshiba (植芝盛平), based Aikidō's techniques on the Daitō ryū (大東流) style of Jūjutsu. Japanese Kenpō's founder, Muneomi Sawayama (澤山宗海), based Japanese Kenpō's techniques on Jūjutsu and Karate. Finally, Hironori Ōtsuka (大塚博紀), the founder of Wadō ryū (和道流), based his Wadō ryū Jūjutsu Kenpō on a style of Jūjutsu that he personally studied which was called Shintō Yōshin ryū (神道揚心流).

In recent years, as a result of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu's prominence in the Media, Jūjutsu has come to be associated more and more with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. For many practioners of styles such as Karate, Jūjutsu has become synonomous with the kind of ground fighting associated with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. For that reason, the original Jūjutsu is often called “Koryū Jūjutsu” (古流柔術 – Old Style Jūjutsu) so as to distinguish it from its Brazilian cousin. The style that is now called Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu did not actually come down directly from Old Style Jūjutsu. Rather, it is a descendent of the style of Jūdō that was prevalent in the Meiji period (Jiu-Do). The term Jūjutsu was chosen by practioners of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu in order stress that the focus of the style was more “Jutsu” (術 physical technique) than “dō” (道 spiritual path).

Main Styles of Jūjutsu

  • Asayama Ichiden ryū (浅山一伝流)
  • Araki ryū (荒木流)
    • Araki Shin ryū (荒木新流)
  • Iga ryū (為我流)
    • Iga Ryūha Katsushin ryū (為我流派勝新流)
  • Kitō ryū (起倒流)
    External link Studies in Kitōryū Jūjutsu (written in Japanese)
    • Jikishin ryū (直信流)
    • Ryōi Shintō ryū (良移心当流, also known as 笠原流 Kasawara ryū)
    • Kyūshin ryū (扱心流)
    • Oguri ryū (小栗流)
  • Shoshō ryū (諸賞流)
  • Shintō __?__ (Kitamado) ryū (神道北窓流)
  • Seigō ryū (制剛流)
  • Sekiguchi Shinshin ryū(関口新心流, also known as 関口流 Sekiguchi ryū)
    • Shibukawa ryū (渋川流)
      • Shibukawa Ichi ryū (渋川一流)
      • Tenshin ryū (転心流)
  • Sentō Isshin ryū (専当一心流)
  • Daitō ryū (大東流)
  • Tatsumi ryū (立身流)
  • Musō Jikiden ryū (無双直伝流)
  • Takenouchi ryū(竹内流)
    • Sōke (宗家, also known as 日下捕手開山 Hinoshita Toride Kaizan）
    • Sōdenke (相伝家)
    • Bitchūden (備中伝)
      External link Bitchūden Takenouchi ryū Nisshinkan (written in Japanese)
    • Takenouchi Une ryū (竹内畝流, also known as 竹内新流 Takenouchi Shin ryū)
    • Katayama Hōki ryū (片山伯耆流)
      • Katayama __?__ (Shindō) ryū (片山心働流)
        • Tenjin __?__ (Meishin) ryū (天神明進流)
    • Sōsuishitsu ryū (双水執流)
      External link Sōsuishitsu ryū Kumiuchi Koshinomawari (written in Japanese, link to English version at lower left)
    • Hontai Yōshin Takagi ryū (本體楊心高木流, also known as 高木流 Takagi ryū)
      • Shingetsu Musō Yanagi ryū (心月無想柳流, also known as 柳流 Yanagi ryū)
      • Fumon Yōshin ryū (普門楊心流, also known as 本體楊心流 Hontai Yōshin ryū)
    • Rikishin ryū (力信流)
    • Donteki ryū (呑敵流)
    • Takenouchi Santō ryū (竹内三統流)
    • Nanba Ippo ryū (難波一甫流)
      • Fusen ryū (不遷流)
    • Shishin ryū (至心流)
      • Shishin Takuma Yondai Kennichi ryū (四心多久間四代見日流, also known as 四心多久間流 Shishin Takuma ryū)
      • Shingoku ryū (真極流)
        • __?__ (Hongaku Katsumi) ryū (本覚克己流)
  • Tenshin Shōden Katori Shintō ryū (天真正伝香取神道流)
  • Tennen Rishin ryū (天然理心流)
  • Toda ryū (戸田流)
    • Kiraku ryū (気楽流)
    • Shiten ryū (四天流)
  • Nagao ryū (長尾流)
  • Yagyū Shingan ryū (柳生心眼流)
  • Yōshin ryū (楊心流)
    • Jigō Tenshin ryū (自剛天真流, also known as 為勢自得天真流 Ise Jitoku Tenshin ryū)
    • Shin no Shintō ryū (真之神道流)
    • Tenjin Shinyō ryū (天神真楊流)
      • Shinkage ryū (真蔭流)
      • Ryūshin Katsu Chū ryū (柳心介冑流)
      • Ishiguro ryū (石黒流)
    • Yōshin Koryū (揚心古流)
      • Shintō Yōshin ryū (神道揚心流)
        • Wadō ryū (和道流, passed down by black belts of Wadō ryū Karate)
  • Fuji ryū Taijutsu (不二流体術)

Related articles

References

  • Yawara: The Ancient Japanese Martial Art of Jujutsu (図説柔術), by Osano Jun (小佐野淳), Shin Kigen Sha Publishers (新紀元社), ISBN 4883173550

(translator note: The Japanese article still includes the "stub" tag)

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Translation of Discussion Page

Additionally, I have translated all of the comments from the Japanese Talk:Jujutsu page. According to his bio page, ja:User:Buckstars is an advanced speaker of English. There is no mention of English proficiency in any of the other bios for contributors to the Japanese version. A-cai 15:51, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

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“Jūjutsu has come to be associated more and more with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.” … this type of statement is POV and has an extremely anti-Japanese feel to it. On the other hand, it is a fact that that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu has more opportunities for media exposure. However, where I live, we do distinguish the two by accent ….. --ja:User:FeZn 23:48 2004年5月8日 (UTC)

I have been attempting to edit out POV to the extent possible. I have made a number of corrections and marked them with an M. However, the essential parts are unchanged. I apologize for any misunderstanding. --ja:User:FeZn 04:34 2004年5月26日 (UTC)

Since the World Games is a sports competition (which includes Jūjutsu), I have added the Sports competition “Category” to the article. I realize that this is controversial, never-the-less, there are many people around the world who think of Jūjutsu in terms of an international sports competition. --ja:User:Buckstars 2005年7月8日 (金) 18:40 (UTC)

The Jūjutsu of the World Games is actually Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Since Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is not traditional Japanese Jūjutsu, I have deleted the category. ja:User:Izayohi 2005年7月9日 (土) 01:43 (UTC)

Generally speaking, it is easy to confuse the Japanese term “Jūjutsu” with the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu which is associated with sports competition. This shows how easy it is to call something by the wrong name in an encyclopedia. Is it really a fact that everyone thinks of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu when talking about sporting events? In the Introduction to the sporting events (written in Japanese) for the World Games 2001 Akita, the term Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu was not used. The Ju-jitsu International Federation (国際柔術連盟JJIF) does not call their Jūjutsu sports competitions “Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.” Furthermore, The International Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Federation and the Ju-jitsu International Federation are two different organizations. I have added a comment next the “Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu” bullet as a convenience for readers who may not understand the difference between the two. --ja:User:Buckstars 2005年7月9日 (土) 03:38 (UTC)

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A-cai 15:51, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

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