Talk:Jaffa Cakes/Archive 1

Jaffa Cakes outside the UK and Ireland

I just wanted to suggest an edit. Jaffa cakes are actually extremely popular in Poland, where they are called "delicje" (pronounce ~ deleesyeh). (Please see: http://finanse.wp.pl/kat,108644,opage,7,title,Kultowe-slodycze-wracaja-na-rynek-Podrobka-czy-oryginal,wid,14484968,wiadomosc.html?ticaid=1ec5d) They are staple Polish cookies/biscuits. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.134.82.51 (talk) 03:59, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Fansite

I'd argue that the Jaffa Cake fansite should be removed as its tottaly useless and generally bad ([1]) EAi 18:17, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

I'd agree. I changed the link to a somewhat nicer Jaffa Cake fansite, though maybe there shouldn't be a link to one at all? There certainly doesn't appear to be an official fansite. ([2]) Anon. 17:03 20 July 2005 GMT

Contradictions in article

"Jaffa Cakes are classed as biscuits ,eventhough they are called cakes" from the intro and the cake or buscuit states they proved it was a cake to avoid VAT.81.109.24.232 16:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

"In the United Kingdom, Jaffa Cakes are classified as cakes, even though they are really biscuits" - changed to "resemble". If they are classed as something, they are in fact "really" that thing, by definition. 82.10.111.59 19:10, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

By definition, within the limited scope of the defining authority! "Deemed to be a cake for tax purposes" doesn't necessary translate well to common usage or to any other technical scope. Personally I'd say they were biscuits, but the distinction doesn't overly concern me. I've no idea how a proper chef would distinguish cakes from biscuits, which is probably the better measure. (McVitie's themselves are not a good source since there was a fairly large monetary incentive to go with cake.) I remember hearing a radio piece on the court case at the time - allegedly one of the more bizarre arguments hinged on whether the orangey bit rested on the base or hung off the chocolate! (No, I have no reference for that. Just what I remember.) --db 86.7.20.47 17:11, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

It was my understanding that, regardless of the vested interest McVitie's had, the definitive difference between a cake and a biscuit is that a cake goes harder as it becomes stale, whereas a biscuit becomes softer: something to do with whether it loses water to (or takes it up from) the surrounding air. If this is indeed a reliable method of differentiating, then Jaffa Cakes are most certainly cakes. Dom Kaos (talk) 14:00, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

To make this simple, I've changed the first paragraph descripion to snack, and put all of the cake vs. biscuit arguments into their own section. Jellyfish dave (talk) 14:21, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Radiohead

Theres a brief sentence at the bottom: "British superintellects Radiohead have Jaffa Cakes on nearly even one of their concert riders, the stipulations which the band set for the venues they play." Firstly, Superintellect isn't a word, that I'm awarre of. Secondly, even if it were, i's a pretty subjective comment. Thirdly, it doesn't even think to mention they're a band. Fourthly there are spelling mistakes. Fifthly it is un-cited. Could do with re-writing and having a citation tag, or just removing. Patch86 18:00, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

the picture

That's one ugly picture of a jaffa cake. Too much blue. Can anyone take one that doesn;t make it look like a poo? --bodnotbod 22:42, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

New image added - is that better? CLW 18:38, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Marketing - 'Orangy tangs'

I'm just wondering whether this marketing campaign from 1997, where they used 'Orangey Tangs' should be added to the Marketing section to provide a more detailed marketing history.

Assassin Droid _talk 17:20, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure I heard that the flavouring was as much apricot as orange, in spite of marketing to the contrary... 82.10.111.59 19:11, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Brand

Tesco sell "jaffa cakes". Presumably they're allowed to do this because it's a generic term rather than a brand name. Hence, where did the name come from? Is there a Mr Jaffa?

Jaffa is a generic term for anything flavoured with chocolate and orange. (For example in Australia we have sweets called Jaffas, which are balls of chocolate covered with orange candy.) I assume "Jaffa" and "Jaffa cake" cannot be trademarked for this reason, like the terms "chocolate cake" or "strawberry" can't, which is why you'll see them by different manufacturers. As for where it originates, not sure but Jaffa is also a type of orange, from Isreal. --Jquarry 22:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I was going to add something in about it having become something of a genericised trademark, but it's semi protected and i haven't the brainpower to deal with making an account and waiting for four days ;-) --- To prevent it being mere OP I was going to cite (the existence of...) tesco generic JCs, Cadbury's "dark chocolate jaffa cakes", Lidl's own brand etc, with appropriate links. Including the use of the name for varieties in different flavours even though they technically aren't "jaffa" cakes any more because there's no orange flavour - lime, cherry, raspberry, etc... 193.63.174.210 (talk) 13:26, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

(also there is a typo in one of the links ... "Buscuits" rather than "Biscuits" :)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.63.174.210 (talk) 13:27, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Ian Richardson claim

I've moved this here temporarily, pending a reliable source:

"In 2006 the actor Ian Richardson claimed that it was his father that had originally invented the Jaffa Cake."

I could only find a reference to it here here. — Matt Crypto 07:46, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

That's sounds so obscure it's probably true. Made up trivia and urban legends generally involve more interesting or talked-about people than Ian Richardson, so I think it's likely he said it. Be useful to have a reliable cite though. This is a bit like Michael Nesmith of the The Monkees, whose mother invented Liquid Paper. Crazysuit 15:22, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Ian Richardson directly confirmed this in an interview on The Steve Wright Show in July 2006 on BBC Radio 2. He said that his father used to continually bring test samples home for his family to try and now Ian Richardson can't stand the sight of them! - Richard Bignell 13 November 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 20.133.0.14 (talk) 14:00, 13 November 2007 (UTC) It,s all TRUE!!!!! John and Peggy Richardson were our neighbours when my father bought our house in 1970. John was retired, but lived in a tied house owned by McVitties. Apparently he perfected his creation in his kitchen, and his family and neighbours were his "guinea pigs". Saughtonhall Avenue, Edinburgh.... The birthplace of the Jaffa Cake!!! (Posted by Colin Davidson, 1/11/11). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.246.68 (talk) 21:36, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Measured with a ruler?

I genuinely think whoever did that needs to back away from wiki--I'll bring the food 01:47, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

It just shows it was someone with an engineer's mind. And btw, a real engineer would use a caliper, not a ruler. :-) bogdan 00:17, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Apricot Centre

Has anyone bothered to read the ingredients on a packet? The centre is not made of orange, it is made of apricot, and I think QI can back me up on that argument (sources are not available though). Alex Holowczak 13:11, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

This is easy enough for any Brit to check for themselves. From the tube right in front of me: "INGREDIENTS: Glucose-Fructose Syrup, Plain Chocolate (20%)[Sugar, Cocoa Mass, Vegetable Fat, Butter Oil, Emulsifiers (Soya Lecithin, E476), Cocoa Butter, Natural Vanilla Flavouring], Sugar, Wheat Flour, Whole Egg, Water, Dextrose Monohydrate, Concentrated Orange Juice (8% Orange Juice Equivalent), Glucose Syrup, Citric Acid, Humectant (Glycerine), Gelling Agent (Pectin), Vegetable Oil, Raising Agents (Ammonium Bicarbonate, Disodium Disphosphate, Sodium Bicarbonate), Dried Whole Egg, Natural Flavourings, Acidity Regulator (Sodium Citrate), Natural Colour (Curcumin)." --db 86.7.20.47 17:11, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

This is fair enough, but it's inappropriate synthesis to say that the 2002 Telegraph story must have been an "urban legend", on the basis of an ingredients list from five years later. There's no reason to assume that the ingredients have remained the same throughout the product's history. I've trimmed the "Urban legend" section of the article back a bit, and flagged it as WP:SYN. --McGeddon (talk) 20:10, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I found this topic on the QI forums where someone asks the question about whether it's orange or apricot, and someone whose father works in the Jaffa Cake factory asked the batch room about the ingredients and supposedly it IS 70% apricot to create the jelly, but does include oranges. A QI researcher seemed quite happy about the revelation. Is that enough evidence to edit the wikipedia article? EssentialParadox (talk) 00:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

If you can link to an indisputable reliable source then it could be mentioned. But unless that source can be found it remains an urban legend. QI have often made mistakes (something they openly admit on air), so the show could not be considered a reliable enough source of information. magnius (talk) 13:45, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, McVitie's aren't saying and I doubt many other people care enough to research and document it solidly. Still, what I *think* is going on here is that the flavouring is pure orange as above, but the jelly is mostly Pectin - which that article points out is commonly sourced from apricot. It would make sense that apricot just happens to be the cheapest source of pectin in the volumes they need to produce, but after the necessary processing down to pectin there is nothing of the apricot *flavour* (and indeed little at all you might call uniquely apricotty) remaining. (There is a slight air of "you're so silly to think it tastes of orange when it's really made of apricot" about these stories, but I don't think that's what's actually going on.) --db 86.26.3.209 (talk) 14:24, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Buffy

Not having the DVDs, I can't provide the exact quote, but I recall one of the last episodes of Buffy The Vampire Slayer made reference to Jaffa Cakes. It was when the town had been all but deserted, and some of the group returned from a scavenging expedition. Amongst their spoils were Jaffa Cakes, which Giles was extremely happy about. Optimus Sledge 21:43, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Checking the video, the exact quote appears to be 'Ooh, Jaffa Cakes!'. Duncan Frost (talk) 01:17, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Other fruits

I just bought some "Cherry Jaffa Cakes" which have the filling of cherries instead of oranges! Is that just an isolated incident (the company producing them is from Poland) or is it part of a bigger conspiracy? bogdan 00:15, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

In Germany there are several flavours available, typically orange, cherry and raspberry (in descending order). During summertime there are "limited editions", e.g. Pink Grapefruit or Tropical Fruit Mix. --91.15.98.20 (talk) 22:06, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

several (or all?) of these flavours are available under the original name "jaffa cakes" on Aldi (Süd) in Germany. --79.210.86.238 (talk) 14:32, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Jaffa Cakes in Popular Culture

This section has two statements which shouldnt be here.

the first is "Pucko from the EDIT boards believes that Jaffa Cakes are 'gash' " I do not think the opinion of someone on a message board has any relevance to the article.

The second is "A 'jaffa' is also a slang term for a man with a low sperm count, i.e. 'seedless'..... " Again not relevant as this term relates to the Jaffa seedless orange and not the Jaffa Cake. Deckchair 12:29, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Jaffa cakes are the favorite snack of simon also known as honeydew, from the popular youtube channel "bluexephos" It is rumored that truckloads are consumed by simon each year and that he has trained keebler elves to create them via assemble line. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.86.141.229 (talk) 19:02, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

The fact that Honeydew likes Jaffa Cakes is completely unremarkable, as the Yogscast is not remarkable in any way. it is definately popular and it is definately hilarious, but it is just another podcast on the global scale. 66.59.49.88 (talk) 18:08, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Different sponge

They changed the spongy bit of Jaffa Cakes about 10-15 years ago. The base used to be a firmer sponge and when they changed it to a more er.. spongy sponge, it really put me off. I can't have been alone. The new 'spongier' sponge was advertised as a virtue on the packets. Safeway's Jaffa Cakes still had the firmer sponge and we used to get those instead for a while. I still hanker after the old style. This change in formula is not mentioned in the article. Jooler 16:43, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

The reason that it isn't mentioned is that it is just a VERY slight difference in the recipe for miniature cakes sold in Britain and Ireland, do you think anyone cares? 24.60.143.195 (talk) 06:30, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Fat Content

This needs rewritting:

A test was taken on how much a jaffa cake weighs. The first jaffa cake weighed 11.78g, the second one weighed 11.79g and the final cake weighed 13.13g which shows there could be double the fat content in each jaffa cake so a Jaffa Cake could be 8.2% fat.

One cake weighing more than another proves nothing at all about the fat content. If it can be demonstrated that the weight difference is entirely in the part of the cake that contains fat, then the claim may have credibility, but more details need to be specified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.46.233.8 (talk) 09:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism - cake or biscuit?

Somebody seems determined to vandalise this page, by creating new accounts and changing words like "cake" to "biscuit" and "biscuit" to "bread". Someone who knows more about it please block them. It only takes a few seconds to revert the edits, but blocking would seem to be the appropriate action. Info 151 22:27, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Jam?

They contain orange jelly (aka as Jello to the Americans), not jam, and in any case if they did contain "Orange Jam" - that would be called "Marmalade". If you don't believe me, dissect one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.202.145.191 (talk) 01:03, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Nearly, but no cigar! Marmalade made from oranges requires the specific use of the bitter Seville orange. Use another orange and it may as well be called "orange jam". Dainamo (talk) 12:27, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Jell-o is a brand name box gelatin in the U.S. "Jelly" (a spread made from fruit juice relying on natural pectin) and "Jam" (a spread made from fruit pulp relying on natural pectin) mean the same in the US as it does in the UK. We also Have Jaffa Cakes only here, they are called Pims and come orange or raspberry.Aen13 (talk) 17:04, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Jelly doesn't mean a spread made from fruit juice in the UK, Jelly is a dessert made with sweetened and flavored gelatin in the UK — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.193.2.45 (talk) 23:53, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Footnote 8 produces 404 error

As of today at least footnote 8 gives a 404 error message. 11:28, 11 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.43.110.186 (talk)

Ingredients and vat status

The sponge in a jaffa cake is not by definition fat free, and they do not only come in dark chocolate. A court decision in one jurisdiction only effects the VAT status in that jurisdiction. Dbpjmuf (talk) 00:43, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Snack in United Kingdom and Ireland

Why does the first sentence only mention the UK and Ireland? While it's certainly a snack in both these countries it's widely available in many other countries too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.129.91.72 (talk) 22:41, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Signed. I've seen them here in Norway too. (though not for a while, which is just as well, because they taste awful) Spacemonger (talk) 02:40, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Sun readers claim

Why is this line even in here? Sun readers are notorious idiots, and their opinions are worthless, especially when the issue has been settled in court. I'm sure other idiotic fictional titles also claim it's a biscuit, but nobody is interested in what these people think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.193.68.7 (talk) 20:15, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

The citation doesn't even go to the Sun or anything about a poll, it just links to the HG2G article on VAT.Scowny (talk) 07:31, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

If most people tend to think of Jaffa Cakes as biscuits, irrespective of lofty judicial rulings, then it seems very useful to tell the reader that, to put the whole biscuit/cake thing into context. If there are other polls or sources that contradict this (or that support your strong personal conviction that Sun readers have a tendency to misidentify snackfoods as biscuits), then feel free to cite them and edit the article.

We should track down the citation to check whether it actually exists, though. --McGeddon (talk) 09:36, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

PiM's

It appears that the North American similar product is PiM's, distributed by Kraft/LU: http://www.lu-france.fr/pims/index.htm . Any referencing on that so it could be added? Best I can find for now: http://www.paulandstorm.com/longer-thoughts/jaffa-minded/ Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 15:52, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Kraft/LU also sells these under the "Jaffa" name, at least in Finland: http://www.keksihylly.fi/tuotteet/lu-jaffa (the site is Finnish only). Juhoeemeli (talk) 13:02, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Serbian Jaffa Cakes

There's a typo in this section. It says "A company from Crvenka, Serbia..." when in fact the country is Serbia and the company is Crvenka, not the other way around. So "A company from Serbia, Crvenka,..." is more suitable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Popovichh (talk • contribs) 22:42, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment, Popovichn. I've not made the change you requested, as Crvenka is not a company, but a town; it is grammatically correct to write [town], [country]. ItsZippy ^{(talk • contributions)} 18:24, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

History

Realize this may be touchy, but the history timeline, as written, doesn't make sense. If Jaffa cakes were introduced in 1927 then they were named after Jaffa oranges from Palestine, technically. TowAwayZone (talk) 16:57, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I am not certain as to how this is relevent to an article on Jaffa Cakes. Jaffa is currently part of Israel and the article should reflect that without deviating into historic details more suited to the Palestine article. This article is about the cake and not about the history of the region. Obviously if anyone wants to delve deeper into the history of Jaffa then all they need to do is click on the handy link to the Jaffa article. The articles on Jaffa and the Jaffa Orange also currently seem to back this up in my opinion. Deckchair (talk) 13:28, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree, the article should reflect the current geographic climate. As it stands, Jaffa is in Isreal, that's all we need to say. magnius (talk) 13:36, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Im with TowAwayZone, in 1927 Jaffa was in Paletine. The article should state this, or that they were named after Jaffa Oranges and make no mention of either Palestine or Israel. Dead-or-Red (talk) 22:51, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

The current ownership of the city of Jaffa is not relevant to an article on cakes. Jaffa is in Israel. This is a current geographical fact. that is all the article needs to reflect. Deckchair (talk) 11:19, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

As you said "The current ownership of the city of Jaffa is not relevant to an article on cakes" so neither Israel or Palestine should be mentioned. 80.47.234.159 (talk) 21:34, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry, I should have clarified my position, what i should have said is "the politicking over the current ownership of Jaffa is not relevant to this article". As i suggested the wikipedia article on Jaffa correctly states thjat Jaffa is in Israel, and for the sake of completeness and geo-political correctness this article can correctly state that Jaffa is indeed in Israel. Any politicking certainly is not relevant to this page and you may not like the fact, but a fact it is. Deckchair (talk) 10:53, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

The issue is that the biscuits were named in 1927, and writing that they "were named after" a region of Israel would imply to the uninformed reader that Jaffa was part of Israel in 1927. Just saying that the biscuits were "named after Jaffa oranges" seems the simplest solution, here - we don't need the extra step of explaining why Jaffa oranges are called Jaffa oranges. --McGeddon (talk) 11:05, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

We don't have to decide anything. The statement was made in a reliably sourced article. Jaffa cakes are named after Jaffa oranges from Israel. Period. If the article said Palestine, we would write Palestine. But it doesn't.--Gilabrand (talk) 11:28, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

The source talks in the present tense ("These cakes are named for Jaffa oranges, sweet oranges native to Israel"), so it's subtly changing the meaning to reword that into past tense. But I'm not actually sure that the anonymous-self-appointed-expert Wisegeek.com site even meets WP:RS. --McGeddon (talk) 12:08, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Removing Israel & Palestine is neutral. 80.47.234.159 (talk) 10:37, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

I see you have made an edit claiming consensus has been reached when plainly it hasnt been. Please do not make edits claiming consensus which is incorrect. Deckchair (talk) 10:57, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Consensus so far supports removing Israel. 80.47.169.83 (talk) 19:16, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

have we reached a conclusion yet? Dead-or-Red (talk) 18:11, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

It would not appear so. Deckchair (talk) 15:56, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

I just came across this discussion after noticing aspects of one of my edits were removed. I think that due to the fact that we are referring to a geographical location in which the oranges are grown, that being the city of Jaffa in Israel, we should mention Israel. There obviously still is not consensus for this, but I thought I'd weigh in. Valley2city^‽ 21:43, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

The problem is that we're specifically talking about a 1927 product being "named after" a fruit from the region, and that this loosely implies to the uninformed reader that Jaffa was part of Israel in 1927. --McGeddon (talk) 11:15, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

"In Israel" was recently added back by an editor who I now realise was part of this discussion, so apologies for the repetition on your talk page, Deckchair.

To avoid implying that the biscuit was named after "Jaffa in Israel" when it was introduced in 1927, I think we either need to say "native to Jaffa in what is now Israel / what was then Palestine", refactor the lede so that we aren't pinpointing Jaffa in the same sentence as describing the 1927 launch, or simply drop the idea of explaining exactly where Jaffa is. Given that the location of the city of Jaffa is only very tenuously connected to the article subject of a British chocolate biscuit, it seems a bit pedantic and politically weighted to bring it up - I think it's probably best just to leave it at "native to Jaffa". --McGeddon (talk) 09:00, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Cake or biscuit: Rubbish references

The two references cited in the Cake Or Biscuit section are very suspect. I can't find any trail, other than an anecdote from a broken link, and a reference on h2g2 (a primarily humorous website).

Certainly nothing justifies the naming of "Potter, QC" who doesn't appear to exist anywhere on the internet before this Wikipedia article and those copying from it.

If this did actually go to a VAT tribunal, surely we can get some better sources? Otherwise the whole thing should just be removed ... North5 (talk) 13:06, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

It crops up here and there in news articles and tax textbooks, although some are a little sketchy (Which magazine frames the giant Jaffa Cake produced in court as a "rumour".) I can find at least one source that dates from 1999, so there's clearly something in it, but you're right, there's nothing about "Potter, QC". I'll trim it back to use better sources. --McGeddon (talk) 13:49, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Aha. I can't find a copy of the specific VAT tribunal, but a similar hearing for another biscuit company quotes the Jaffa Cake one. (The original hearing only seems to exist on random forum copy-and-pastes these days - such as this one - which aren't reliable enough to use here. There is a "DC Potter, QC", though.)

I'll lift what I can from the later tribunal. --McGeddon (talk) 14:08, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Trivia from Spaced

Removed the following non-sensical statement:

"*In episode five of Series One of the British sitcom Spaced, the protagonist Tim says to have some Jaffa Cakes in his coat pocket as an answer to the equation that can predict all behavior in the universe."

It's a badly worded sentence so I'm not sure what it means, but I believe what happens is that one of the other characters is talking about an equation for predicting the future when Tim realises he has some Jaffa Cakes in his coat pocket. If someone can check the DVD and phrase it in a way that makes sense then, well, feel free I guess.

Edit request on 18 April 2012

Please correct: "2½ inches (54 mm) in diameter" into "2½ inches (about 6½ cm) in diameter"

Vitalelorenzo (talk) 15:30, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Done. --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 19:11, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 3 May 2012

Jaffa Cakes are a snack primarily popular the United Kingdom and Ireland.

should read

Jaffa Cakes are a snack primarily popular in the United Kingdom and Ireland.

The change is the add of the 'in' before 'the'.

69.181.136.123 (talk) 20:23, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Done -- AgadaUrbanit (talk) 20:37, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on November 2012

its actually apricot jelly not orange — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.174.198 (talk) 23:49, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

 Not done Such an extraordinary claim would require a source. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 02:41, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Looks like this has been raised before - a 2002 Telegraph article alleged that the filling was made from apricot pulp and tangerine oil, but this was found not to be reflected in the ingredients on a modern packet. One editor thought it could be a misinterpretation of how McVities source their pectin. --McGeddon (talk) 09:50, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Other manufacturer(s)

What about Kipling's Jaffa Cakes? I bought them many times when I was stationed in Scotland (1989-92). 66.232.252.133 (talk) 04:02, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Any company can make a "Jaffa cake" and call it that, and the phrase "jaffa cake" by itself isn't a McVities trademark. 82.37.194.41 (talk) 22:00, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

no reliable sources that I have seen talk about any Jaffa Cake other than McVities. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 22:02, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

How about this: http://www.poundland.co.uk/product-range/a-z/24-cadbury-jaffa-cakes-with-100-extra-free/ Kedamono (talk) 18:36, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

not close to a reliable source. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:52, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Is this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/9249366/Jaffa-Cakes-definitely-not-biscuits-prepare-to-take-on-imitators.html any better. Rgammans (talk) 19:06, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

 Done That one is. I dont know why it didnt show up in my searches in the fall. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:18, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Jaffa Cakes are also consumed outside the British Isles

Jaffa Cakes are a favorite snack in Serbia and other countries of ex-Yugoslavia. Jaffa, a factory in Serbian town Crvenka has been producing Jaffa Cakes since 1976. The same factory started producing another popular UK snack, Munchmallow, in 1981. Since late eighties and especially recently, Jaffa Cakes from this factory met competition in Serbian market by other candy producers marketing a similar product.

Web page of this factory is: http://www.jaffa.rs/jaffa-cakes — Preceding unsigned comment added by Milan Pavlica (talk • contribs) 20:51, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Jaffa Cakes outside UK and Ireland

McVitie's Jaffa cakes are made in Turkey according to the information on recently purchased packets. The current Wikipedia page does not say that and may be misleading. There is scant information about the product on McVitie's internet pages.

Jaffa cakes are also being widely produced in mainland europe. For some reason in lithuania (and probably other baltic countries) it's written on one of manufacturers package "Biscuits" and so full title would be "coated Biscuits with -flavour- jelly" but while looked up in the website of the manufacturer (company named "Cuprod" from poland)they have title on box Jaffa Cakes. Also the packaging in the website is identical to one found in uk - a paper box and probably a film inside to hold the cakes, while in lithuanian case it's a plastic tub wrapped in non transparent film and livery is all the same except for title mentioned above. It might be that in countries like lithuania it's called biscuits because of it's size. In europe it is also wide variety of flavours at all times. Orange is just one of many. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.7.112.65 (talk) 19:08, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

do you have any sources that we can use to verify such claims? -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:11, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Source would be this http://www.cuprod.com.pl/?page_id=57&lang=en - i hope it will answer all the questions its a product page of one of many manufacturers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.7.112.65 (talk) 13:07, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

In Poland, Jaffa Cakes are known as Delicje Szampańskie or more commonly just „delicje” (feminine plural for „something delicious”), and manufactured in various flavor versions by LU Polska (but originally introduced by a well-known Polish chocolate brand Wedel). They are very popular as a party snack or as an alternative to tea biscuits. Podstawko (talk) 20:14, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 15 October 2013

User:Jinglenose pasted a requested replacement version of the article into this talk page whose single change was to replace "cake-style biscuit" in the lede with "biscuit-like cakes". The linked article is the already-cited HMRC source on the ruling that says "Taking all these factors into account, Jaffa cakes had characteristics of both cakes and biscuits, but the tribunal thought they had enough characteristics of cakes to be accepted as such, and they were therefore zero-rated."

Not done: I'd say that the existing "cake-style biscuit" was a better summary of "cake/biscuit snack which has sufficient characteristics of a cake to be considered a cake". "Biscuit-like cake" sounds like it's describing a large, brittle cake. --McGeddon (talk) 10:50, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

What do you think of "biscuit-sized cake," then? 68.99.90.127 (talk) 03:46, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Maybe, although that could be read as them looking like normal cakes except smaller, which isn't the case. --McGeddon (talk) 17:56, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

In keeping with the VAT judgement that it is a cake, it certainly is also biscuit-sized, so this phrase turn seems to follow logically. Perhaps to ensure it is correct you should use it as a rationale to eat some while pondering this change. I certainly will—and am, right now in fact! Lexlex (talk) 21:46, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Honeydew Simon

About that pop culture thing, Simon of the Yogscast really, really, REALLY likes Jaffa Cakes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.91.39.98 (talk) 21:35, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, many people do. --McGeddon (talk) 16:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

But not many people are Simon of the Yogscast, and he has a following large enough for an article on this encyclopaedia. 86.177.168.62 (talk) 10:44, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

In recent/popular media

In an episode of the tgs podcast a blind taste test was conducted between Jaffa cakes and pims (sp?), Dodger (one of the hosts) was given one each to try, what neither she nor the other two hosts realized at the time was that the box of Jaffa cakes that had been sent to Jesse Cox (one of the other hosts) were well past their expiration date by 40 years, though apparently only tasted "half stale" as mentioned by one of the final host TotalBiscuit. <ref>http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BfscLnagXDE&feature=plpp</ref>

without a reliable third party source commenting and placing in context, this is really just a case of "i seen it" trivia. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 13:01, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Recent report of the cake/biscuit question

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-38985820 May be of interest 20040302 (talk) 13:33, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

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"Jaffas in Popular Culture"

I think adding such a section and mentioning the Yogscast under it would help alongside any other pop cult references about the product. I mean if you have a movie star and his bit is that he likes snickers there'd probably be mention of it on that page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:318F:4750:7130:85A7:F9FA:1AC (talk) 15:05, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Packaging sizes

I noticed that the article still states packages come in multiples of 12 cakes - since 2017, the number of Jaffa Cakes in UK packs have been progressively reduced. Packs are now based on multiples of 10 (10, 20, 30, 40). I can't edit the page with my current account age - can someone potentially change this? Howiieb (talk) 00:37, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

In "ireland" last para

I am sure this is probably correct and sourced, I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with, is that Ireland the country is linked, which we don't do on English Wikipedia just arbitrarirly link to a country, also Revenue linked is a WP:EGG.

I would suggest rephrasing the para thus (of course keep the ref) put it into the active

The Irish Revenue_Commissioners regard .... and then we are nearly done. I don't like "as a result" and would prefer "because of that", but stet--- that's amazing you don't have even a redirect for "stet", in the gutter margin when proofreading if you make a mistake with your blue pencil you just write "stet" - "let it stand" in latin. "stet". I am amazed, it should probably be a redirect to Blue pencil (editing)

Your humble sub editor, etc etc and all that faff — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.164.139.22 (talk) 01:26, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

I've made this copy-edit. I think there was some reason to wikilink "Ireland" (unlike other countries), since the link led specifically to the Republic of Ireland, as opposed to Northern Ireland, so the wikilink was contributing information -- but that wasn't a good way to clarify which Ireland was meant, especially per WP:EGG. The "Revenue Commissioners" page also specifies Republic of Ireland rather than Northern Ireland, so it's still possible for a reader to figure it out if they're very interested, but in general I think the context suggests that we're discussing the UK (and thus not Northern Ireland), and I don't think this detail is important enough to be worth spelling out more. ~ oulfis 🌸(talk) 06:29, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

Orange?

I appreciate that the box has an image of orange slices or oranges on it, but the jam in a jaffa cake tastes strongly of apricot, not orange. Is there documentation that it's meant to be orange flavouring?

To the preceding unsigned comment from 12:35, 15 June 2020‎ 2001:8b0:fac2:4510:b80a:f8c2:ac7d:cd41, this has been mentioned before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Jaffa_Cakes/Archive_1#Apricot_Centre (there's an actual ingredients list there from the package). Personally I've always thought they tasted of orange, but I'm sure that if you've heard that they're actually apricot flavour, close your eyes and try real hard, sure, you could imagine that they're actually apricot flavour. 82.27.180.245 (talk) 17:26, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Flavour variants

The last sentence in flavour variants says “In early 2021 with the new flavours of cherry and passionfruit.” For clarity and better flow, shouldn’t this be more like “In early 2021, new flavours of cherry and passionfruit were launched”? Or it could be strung on to the previous sentence AlanDLG (talk) 21:51, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

point of article

If the article is about Jaffa cakes, everthing after the lead could be left in the McVities and Price article and deleted from here. What other companies make them? Where are they popular? etc, would fit here. --2607:FEA8:D5DF:1AF0:6574:25DE:EAF4:6A32 (talk) 12:34, 26 July 2021 (UTC)--2607:FEA8:D5DF:1AF0:6574:25DE:EAF4:6A32 (talk) 12:34, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Jaffa cakes in Poland

Jaffa cakes are widely known also in Poland. Polish Delicje Szampańskie have been manufactured since 1977 by E. Wedel, later Danone, Kraft Foods, and now Mondelez.Michalg95 (talk) 13:51, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done I have added your comment to a new section, along with PiM's mention. Alexcalamaro (talk) 13:47, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

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Tarts

They are tarts 87.74.175.52 (talk) 09:04, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Officially, they're cakes. The lead to this article is wrong. Cakes go hard when stale, biscuits go soft. Jaffa Cakes go hard when stale, therefore they're a biscuit, and not a cake. They're not a cake-like biscuit, the base is a sponge, which is a cake; not a hard biscuit base. Dane|Geld 17:16, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, not everyone is aware but policies like Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines, verifiability, reliability, Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not means talk pages aren't for discussing opinions but for both improving articles and discussing issues that can be verified with what is defined as reliable sources. Though if there is a reliable source potentially that could be added if it makes sense with this?

Though, I think an issue is, any definition or classification for a word (like Jaffa Cake as cake or biscuit) isn't necessarily right or wrong and it is influenced whether society (or a body of power) will accept it, even though rules are commonly accepted over time (like 'anything that goes hard must be a cake'), and there are similar political topics on this such as tomato on whether it is a fruit or vegetable; officially (influenced by law/political reasons) it is a vegetable though botanically argued as a fruit/berry. Even if past limitations are accepted, something can become redefined, and in some cases archaic. 2A00:23C4:41A:9601:14A7:5835:1997:F674 (talk) 23:17, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

I'd say the best source is the company that make them. McVities themselves call them cakes. They put the word cake in the product name, they have sponge cake in the base... I'll see if I can get confirmation of this as a live source from McVities. Dane|Geld 11:36, 29 June 2022 (UTC)