Talk:Indigenous People of Biafra

Mr Simon Ekpa as mentioned in this article is not a spokesperson for IPOB.

Murdered of Harira Jibril

Why it should not be hear Applodion??

@Salihu Aliyu: Simply put, at least two hundred people have been killed in the insurgency in Southeastern Nigeria. Though horrible, Harira Jibril's case is not exceptional. To mention her by name in IPOB's article seems to be a case of Wikipedia:UNDUE - especially if one considers that the militants that killed Jibril's most likely did not act with the consent of the entire party. If you find enough sources, I would instead recommend that you write a new article about the incident, perhaps titled "Onitsha massacre". There, the event can be explained in detail. The new article could then be linked in insurgency in Southeastern Nigeria. Applodion (talk) 12:40, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

@Salihu Aliyu: Wait a bit, I will write a short start article myself. Then you can expand it with details. Applodion (talk) 12:47, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Ok @Applodion I'm waiting for you if you created it, so that I can help with references! And other details. S Ahmad Fulani|talk 14:05, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

@Salihu Aliyu: I have created the article, see here: May 2022 Anambra State killings. Applodion (talk) 14:08, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Yes! It's okay and good idea S Ahmad Fulani|talk 15:50, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2019 and 25 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Halabazzaz. Peer reviewers: SRRuj.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:56, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

IPOB is described as a separatist group

Several reliable sources have described IPOB as a separatist group or separatist organization (e.g. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6). I have not yet encountered a reliable source calling IPOB "a self-determination group". If you know of such a reliable source, please kindly share it with us so that the expression "self-determination group" can be added into the lead section of the IPOB article. If you cannot provide any reliable source for "IPOB is a self-determination group", please do not add this ecpression into the IPOB article. Repeated addition of unsourced material into a Wikipedia article is disruptive editing and will be reverted. Thank you. 89.15.85.163 (talk) 09:54, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

The Indigenous People of Biafra has identified itself as a self-determination movement. In comparison, the Scottish SNP administration is not labeled as a separatist group or organization, as they are advocating for a Scottish independence referendum from the UK. Therefore, it is a valid question to consider why IPOB should permit an external entity to define its name? Mypippydoo (talk) 03:46, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mypippydoo Wikipedia goes with what reliable sources say about the subject, not what the subject says about itself. —C.Fred (talk) 11:10, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

@ C.Fred Individuals are the ones who contribute information to Wikipedia; it's not a case of Wikipedia shaping their identity. People establish their own self-definition, rather than being influenced by Wikipedia. Mypippydoo (talk) 12:19, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mypippydoo Nonetheless, Wikipedia policy is to go with how people, or groups, are described by independent sources. —C.Fred (talk) 17:28, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia Must be Reviewed! People are to be described according to their Own Description of Themselves. Not Names or allegory imposed by Slaves Masters to Serve their selfish purposes.

Meanwhile, Whomever that is insecting Simon Ekpa here in Wikipedia as IPOB Spokesperson must either be a poisonous lunatic or an extreme Stooge of misguided imperialism.

Mazi (Mr) CHINASA NWORU is known IPOB SPOKESPERSON.

WIKIPEDIA MUST TUNE IN TO RADIO 📻 BIAFRA TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES BEFORE THEY ALLOWED SOME IMPERIALISTIC STOOGES TO DEFAME WIKIPEDIA. BiafraSword (talk) 13:43, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

IPOB is not a political party

The infobox template for IPOB is for a political party. IPOB is not a political party. IPOB uses the flag of Biafra for logo, and the flag is not a party flag but the flag of the defunct Republic of Biafra.[1] I suggest to use the infobox template of freedom fighting organisation for IPOB. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adachineke (talk • contribs) 20:47, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Vandalism on this article page by Anonymous User

This page has been vandalized by Anonymous User:@2603:6080:660E:EE89:70CC:BB99:5F3F:4F29

The link which they claim to have updated doesn't exist. This page should be considered WP:CONFIRM protection.

1st Contributor (talk) 07:53, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Editing warring going on. Appeal for page protection

I am appealing for page protection on this article page due to obvious reasons of page vandalism. From the edit history, you can confirm this. So therefore, l am appealing for extended confirmed user protection to avert the edit warring. Editors vandalizing may have Conflict-of-interest editing on Wikipedia. And again, they are not one user account which they may be sock meat. Administrators should consider taking the appropriate actions. :@Daniel Case Maybe, you can help with this appeal! 1st Contributor (talk) 05:29, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

@Daniel Case you can consider helping in resolving this issue before they turns it to something else. I appeal! 1st Contributor (talk) 16:01, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Note to Editors editing this article page

Simon Ekpa is the leader of the Auto Pilot movement. Those who are adding his details here should consider creating a Wikipedia page for Auto Pilot and include all his relevant information there. Impersonation is incorrect and using accurate facts is essential when editing Wikipedia. The platform serves as a source of information, and incorrect details can lead to misunderstandings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mypippydoo (talk • contribs) 00:01, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

The Indigenous People of Biafra have no IPOB Spokesman position in the organization structure, Also Simon Ekpa is not a member of IPOB and has never been.

Not Our Member: Stop Associating Simon Ekpa To IPOB And ESN – IPOB Warns Media

https://www.ipob.org/not-our-member-stop-associating-simon-ekpa-to-ipob-and-esn-ipob-warns-media

Reliable source have confirmed this and it's noteworthy.

I made my research and l got this here

@Applodion should please take note and you can discuss this here if you have any objections. Emma Powerful is the Media and publicity secretary according to different sources and not spokesperson/Spokesman. He can be added under infobox parameter, Secretary if it's indeed noteworthy. We as editors on Wikipedia must abstain from Conflict-of-interest editing on Wikipedia. I'm not saying you have any dear @Applodion but you be careful. It's a fact! Remember? 1st Contributor (talk) 17:59, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

@1st Contributor: No offense, but you are the one edit warring. Your edits have been undone by multiple editors already. Furthermore, the fact that you are running around basically threatening everyone who is disagreeing with you is, to put it mildly, extremely problematic. I implore you to read Wikipedia:Harassment and to be more cooperative in regards to editing. I see that you are a new editor and still very inexperienced regarding Wikipedia's rules and code of conduct, so I will let it slide. However, other editors will be less understanding; in the future, it is better to stay calm and polite, raise your concerns on the article talk page, and not start the discussion by accusing others of being partisans and vandals.
Regarding the matter at hand, thank you for adding a source on Ekpa's position. I actually could not find recent sources for Ekpa still serving as the spokesman, so my assumption that Emma had replaced him was a honest mistake. However, it does seem like Ekpa is constantly being dencounced by large sections of IPOB, so his current role still seems rather dubious. Accordingly, I have added Emma (who appears to act as the representative of the anti-Ekpa faction) with the correct title to the infobox below Ekpa. Applodion (talk) 22:32, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

@Applodion, 1st Contributor (talk) 22:49, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

@1st Contributor: Just to clarify: As you are otherwise very polite, I assume that you did not intend to come across as aggressive in your comments, though I considered your phrasing a tad uncomfortable. Either way, I also welcome your attention to pages like this one; generally speaking, Nigerian and Biafran topics are in desperate need of regular updates and fixes. So, if you can find sources and help expand articles, feel free to do so. Applodion (talk) 22:50, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

@Applodion I sincerely apologize for the way l sounded.

Forgive me please. I am glad you have understood the general concept now. I don't know if Emma can fit into the Secretary parameter. (Maybe then, she can be clarified to be the media and publicity secretary) I want to know if it's appropriate because there's infobox parameter for that.

Thanks for your swift cooperation, and please, can you be my mentor here since l am still new to Wikipedia? I will consult you from time to time! 1st Contributor (talk) 22:53, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

@1st Contributor: Of course, if you need help, feel free to ask me. I may not always answer quickly, however, as I'm often busy.
Regarding your question: I fear that the "secretary" parameters for the "political party" infoxes are actually designed for party leaders. As far as I can tell, there is really no perfect parameter to fit Emma into.
Furthermore, I actually have a question for you: As you seem relatively well informed on IPOB, do you understand how exactly the party is currently organized? As far as I can see, Ekpa split off to form the "Biafra Republic Government in Exile" which was denounced by other IPOB leaders like Emma. Regardless, Ekpa still serves as IPOB spokesman. Is the party completely split into two competing wings, or not? Applodion (talk) 23:04, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

@Applodion: I have made my research to 2018 and it counted beyond, IPOB have Media and publicity secretary when Kanu,the leader of IPOB was a free man. See here. From the research and available information, he didn't appoint anyone as a spokesperson. Indigenous People of Biafra didn't have a spokesperson. But shortly after his arrest, he appointed Ekpa as the spokesperson and lead broadcaster on Radio Biafra which he's the director pending his release. See link

So, l hope with this, l have been able to clarify you? 1st Contributor (talk) 23:21, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

@1st Contributor: Yes, thank you, this has helped a bit. Applodion (talk) 23:30, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Ok. I have requested for the page protection. Should I remove it or allow it stay? 1st Contributor (talk) 23:36, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

@1st Contributor: The article has suffered from vandal IP edits in the past, so you might as well keep the request open. Applodion (talk) 23:38, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Ok. See it here. I will be leaving it open because of your guidance. But please, if you any other reason or clarity to add in the request in order to make the request approved and not declined, click on the above link. 1st Contributor (talk) 23:44, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Seriously remove Simon ekpa

Nnamdi Kanu has even suspected the governor of Nigeria of supporting him Brek1234567 (talk) 18:11, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Nevermind Brek1234567 (talk) 17:45, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

The Indigenous People of Biafra does not have a designated spokesperson position within its organizational structure. Additionally, it should be clarified that Simon Ekpa is not associated with IPOB and has never held any membership. Simon Ekpa was not appointed as a spokesperson or lead broadcaster for Radio Biafra, nor has he ever broadcasted on Radio Biafra. The reference link provided appears to be a part of Nigeria Government's propaganda and may contain misleading information aimed at causing confusion within the Indigenous People of Biafra (IPOB) movement.

https://www.ipob.org/not-our-member-stop-associating-simon-ekpa-to-ipob-and-esn-ipob-warns-media Mypippydoo (talk) 00:30, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

thanks Brek1234567 (talk) 05:37, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Radio Biafra is not a reliable source Brek1234567 (talk) 05:45, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Please see MOS:INFOBOX — it is completely inappropriate to have information (especially contentious information) in the infobox that is not supported by the body of the article. If “who is the spokesperson?” is not addressed in the body (and I see no reason it should be), then it must be removed from the infobox. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 10:55, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Deleting of Simon ekpa

Deleting of Simon ekpa thanks for that also please IPOB is not a group is a movement that wants to restore Biafra they're not against any tribe or religion Thanks once again Ojadi Emeka (talk) 03:35, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Per Wiktionary, a movement is "a group of people with a common ideology who try together to achieve certain general goals". So semantically, both are correct. —C.Fred (talk) 03:39, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

You might understand it in that way but the people we are dealing with don't understand it

If you put group they will see the organization as 20 people

because Nigerian government leaders don't reason

That's why the international bodies are calling us the biggest freedom movement they don't add group because is like underestimating us

Meanwhile I still thank you for listening to me I appreciate that the leadership will be so thankful Ojadi Emeka (talk) 03:47, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Ideology, Policial, Self-Determination, Anti-Terrorism. Anti-OPEN grazing

Is for that Anti Fulani and Anti Muslim stuff ..

Fulanis are footsoldiers from the sahel (most of them are ISIS AND BOKO HARAM MEMBERS) that the Nig. Govt are using to displace Biafrans from their ancestral homes and farmland under the guise that they are Herders ... It should be ,i that. The whole idea behind IPOB is restoration of Biafra and freedom for all Biafrans regardless of ethnicity. Ojadi Emeka (talk) 14:17, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

the thing is that Wikipedia is largely neutral. I agree Simon ekpa has nothing to do with IPOB but is a Biafran Seperaist Brek1234567 (talk) 14:30, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Probably he kinda does cuz the only one that's denying him is Emma powerful Brek1234567 (talk) 17:44, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Ekperima Simon has never been Our Member. It is quite Unfortunate that the West allows this porosity that causes some of us to lost our ways.

Is it for a Fashion that you People blocking Real Biafrans from knowing the Narratives are here enforcing Ekperima as the Spokesperson of IPOB which he is not even Officially a member?making internet power mongering without Physical Participation to Biafra Liberation Struggle under IPOB?

You All Must be Ware!

IPOB =ONE FAMILY!

ONE FAMILY = IPOB.

MAZI CHINASA NWORU IS IPOB SPOKESPERSON/MAN. BiafraSword (talk) 23:17, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Most of these so called rejection of Simon ekpa by IPOB are actually not done by Nnamdi Kanu but actually done by rma powerful the media secretary of IPOB he CANNOT disown IPOB only Nnamdi Kanu can Brek1234567 (talk) 06:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

When you do not actually know how IPOB Functions, then desist from insinuation.

IPOB has UNITS (IPOB FAMILY GATHERING ) where Meetings are Compulsory, where Initiatives are Harness and Protests/Rallys Planned,with every other Diplomatic Moves Carried out,with an unbreakable Chain of Command of Hirachy through which INFORMATIONS are shared amongst Us IPOB.

Ekperima Simon has never had or belonged to any IPOB UNIT, NOT TO TALK OF A PRINCIPAL SERVANT OF IPOB.

So therefore, Whomever that claims to be an Administrator here on this " IPOB Wikipedia " Must either be a conscious lunatic or a nomenclature without soul or attachment to IPOB/MNK.

"ADMINISTRATOR HERE, PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELF AND REMOVE THIS SHAME IPOB "WIKIPEDIA" SPOKESPERSON Ekperima. 2003:E6:271D:FE77:ABC5:FEE6:959E:5B76 (talk) 13:40, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Mazi Nnamdi kanu has disowned Simon ekperima

Stop lieing to the public young man Ojadi Emeka (talk) 01:48, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

There's a problem on this article page

My attention has been drawn to a technical issue on the infobox. I clicked on Simon Ekpa and it led to a living person but when I clicked on Emma Powerful, it led to IPOB over a redirect which is not appropriate.

This was as a result of the vandalism by Ojadi Emeka. They created that redirect, probably to confuse readers. Let this be resolved ASAP please. For the only reason of clarity on the side of readers.

@Applodion

1st Contributor (talk) 07:32, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

please see WP:AGF and WP:NOTVAND. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 10:40, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

This doesn't correspond to the issue raised. I think this is spam here! 1st Contributor (talk) 10:42, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

You should consult with your mentor about your behavior on this page, which looks very troubling to me. No, there is nothing wrong with creating redirects, and your WP:BATTLEGROUND approach is not good. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 11:06, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Citation

sorry but for the citation for Simon ekpa says a fact check and has nothing to do with Simon ekpa being the spokesperson Brek1234567 (talk) 20:42, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Oh nevermind it's true Brek1234567 (talk) 17:42, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Who inserted Simon Ekpa Ekperima as IPOB Spokesperson in Wikipedia?

IPOB IS LED BY MAZI NNAMDI KANU, WITH THE DIRECTORATE OF STATE ( DOS) AS HER ADMINISTRATIVES AND MAZI CHINASA NWORU AS HER SPOKESPERSON. Please Daniel Case, should make this Necessary Corrections on Wikipedia IPOB. BiafraSword (talk) 05:20, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Simon Ekpa is the leader of the Auto Pilot movement. Those who are adding his details here should consider creating a Wikipedia page for Auto Pilot and include all his relevant information there. Impersonation is incorrect and using accurate facts is essential when editing Wikipedia. The platform serves as a source of information, and incorrect details can lead to misunderstandings Mypippydoo (talk) 00:03, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

We All are witnessing how some elements of Neocolonial Slavery are using all antics to continuously cause mayhem amongst IPOB.

Mr Daniel Case of America created security code for IPOB Wikipedia, which he is neither a Member by proxy,omissions or otherwise in anyway supported the Freedom of Biafra Republic as pursuit by IPOB led by Mazi Nnamdi Kanu.

Yet as an instrument of destabilization ,Mr Daniel Case refuses to Replace his presumed IPOB Spokesperson Ekperima with the Real IPOB SPOKESPERSON MAZI CHINASA NWORU. BiafraSword (talk) 13:56, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 September 2023

BiafraSword (talk) 14:05, 5 September 2023 (UTC)MR CHINASA NWORU IS IPOB OFFICIAL SPOKESPERSON.

CORRECTION PLEASE, ON IPOB WIKIPEDIA PAGE.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Recoil16 (talk) 17:51, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

In Addiction that Simon ekpa is not IPOB spokesman

https://www.ripplesnigeria.com/kanu-finally-disowns-simon-ekpa-calls-him-impostor/

With that link 🔗 above you can see that Simon ekpa is not an IPOB member non spokesperson or spokesman

Also Mazi Nnamdi kanu disowns him says that Simon ekpa is working for Nigeria government

If you don't want to put "Mazi Chinasa Nworu" as IPOB spokesman

Then remove Simon ekpa and leave Emma Powerful as IPOB spokesman

 Ojadi Emeka (talk) 02:07, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 September 2023

Ojadi Emeka (talk) 02:37, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Remove Simon ekpa And leave Emma Powerful as IPOB spokesman

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2014250158642112&id=161915460542267&locale=es_LA

Simon ekpa is not an IPOB member non spokesperson to IPOB IPOB has disowned him Also Mazi Nnamdi kanu disowned him said that Simon ekpa is an imposter Why are you people forcing him on IPOB History Simon ekpa has a group called Autopilot you can create a website for him and state everything you know about him there And stop linking him with IPOB Because you all are misleading the public with fake informations Remove Simon ekpa from IPOB

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 03:07, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

https://pulsenigeria247/posts/ipob-spokesperson-mr-emma-powerful-says-the-directive-to-attack-the-governors-wa/2665923240167754/

That's one of the source to show you that Emma Powerful is IPOB spokesperson And Not Simon ekpa Ojadi Emeka (talk) 03:31, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

https://thenationonlineng.net/ipob-who-is-in-charge/

In that Link 🖇️ above 👆👆👆 First is the IPOB spokesperson

Second is that Simon ekpa is not an IPOB member

So please remove Simon ekpa from IPOB Ojadi Emeka (talk) 03:36, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

[2]https://pulsenigeria247/posts/ipob-spokesperson-mr-emma-powerful-says-the-directive-to-attack-the-governors-wa/2665923240167754/ That's one of the source to show you that Emma Powerful is IPOB spokesperson And Not Simon ekpa https://thenationonlineng.net/ipob-who-is-in-charge/ In that Link 🖇️ above 👆👆👆 First is the IPOB spokesperson Second is that Simon ekpa is not an IPOB member So please remove Simon ekpa from IPOB

@TechnoSquirrel69

Do the needful please Ojadi Emeka (talk) 03:49, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 September 2023 (2)

Ojadi Emeka (talk) 03:56, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

https://pulsenigeria247/posts/ipob-spokesperson-mr-emma-powerful-says-the-directive-to-attack-the-governors-wa/2665923240167754/ That's one of the source to show you that Emma Powerful is IPOB spokesperson And Not Simon ekpa https://thenationonlineng.net/ipob-who-is-in-charge/ https://thenationonlineng.net/ipob-who-is-in-charge/ In that Link 🖇️ above 👆👆👆 First is the IPOB spokesperson Second is that Simon ekpa is not an IPOB member So please remove Simon ekpa from IPOB

 Not done: One of the links isn't working, and the other one is less recent than the one in the infobox, so I'm not inclined to make this change. Note also that § Leadership already acknowledges that Powerful has denounced Ekpa. This doesn't necessarily mean that Ekpa has been removed as a spokesperson. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 04:07, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

https://saharareporters.com/2022/05/26/exclusive-ipob-accuses-nnamdi-kanu%E2%80%99s-self-proclaimed-disciple-simon-ekpa-working-nigerian Ojadi Emeka (talk) 04:13, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

https://saharareporters.com/2022/04/01/nnamdi-kanu%E2%80%99s-acclaimed-disciple-simon-ekpa-behind-killings-south-east-%E2%80%93-ipob Ojadi Emeka (talk) 04:16, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 September 2023 (3)

Ojadi Emeka (talk) 04:33, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

https://saharareporters.com/2022/05/26/exclusive-ipob-accuses-nnamdi-kanu%E2%80%99s-self-proclaimed-disciple-simon-ekpa-working-nigerian

- Simon ekpa is a Self-proclaimed Disciple Also self proclaimed spokesperson He was never an official IPOB spokesman The IPOB spokesperson is Emma Powerful And the public knows that Mazi Nnamdi kanu did not made Simon ekpa IPOB spokesperson Non IPOB members did Because Simon ekpa is not even our member So remove him please

https://saharareporters.com/2022/04/01/nnamdi-kanu%E2%80%99s-acclaimed-disciple-simon-ekpa-behind-killings-south-east-%E2%80%93-ipob

Please answer me How can someone that is not your member in organization be representing you in a meeting Someone that doesn't know the fundamental rules the structure that governor you people huh?

Please Simon ekpa is self proclaimed spokesperson Not in anyway IPOB spokesman please remove him

I hope this source is enough for you to do the needful needed Thanks 😊

 Not done: These sources have the same issue as before: they are less recent, and evidently less reliable as I don't see that Sahara Reporters has an editorial team. I'm starting to see why you were previously blocked multiple times for disruptive editing on this subject. Please note that due to your conflict of interest with IPOB, you are under heightened scrutiny to adhere to Wikipedia's policy on verifiability and guideline on reliable sources. Your repeated edit requests after being declined indicate to me that you have a need to right great wrongs, but we need verifiability, not truth. Please refrain from making yet another edit request until you've addressed these issues. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 14:53, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Ekpa Simon is a member of IPOB

Simon Ekpa is not IPOB spokesperson he is not even a member of IPOB how then will he be a spokesman? How can you put someone that's not a member of an organization to be a spokesperson? 105.112.72.17 (talk) 19:56, 1 November 2023 (UTC)