Talk:Ikwerre people

Article not Neutral Enough

Please I still consider this article not neutral enough. If Ikwerre are officially recognised as a separate ethnic group in Nigeria then the opening sentence is not necessary. For this article to be considered neutral, all perspective must considered without any bias. Most of the references given are mostly from Igbo authors. The article tended to strongly promote the Igbo view of Ikwerre instead of a neutral perspective.

The theory linking the Ikwerre to an Igbo origin is arguably not the most strong and so all perspective must be included without bias. There are several recognised scholarly books on Ikwerre history and culture such as Studies in Ikwerre History and Culture (volume 1,2,3) and those produced by prof. Kay Williamson, but none of those were referenced. All These prove this article may have been carefully weaved to promote an Igbo or Biafra agenda. Finally, the bottom of this article is filled with Igbo topics, I thought this article was about Ikwerre so how come it's all about Igbo? The inclusion of Cross Rivers, Akwa Ibom and Rivers State as part of Igbo land is just laughable. I therefore suggest an urgent neutral review of the content of this article to make it encyclopedic. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dimama (talk • contribs) 22:54, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

You mean a book published in 1993 by Kraft Books: volume 1 by Ikwerre Research Committee [1], volume 2 by Otonti Amadi Nduka [2], right? And Kay Williamson. --Enric Naval (talk) 09:22, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

OK, some comments:

• Williamson was not referenced here because his texts are not online, and the editors of the page don't have easy access to his material, that's all. Wikipedia has several systemic biases that influence the content of the articles: sources that are online are quoted much more often that sources that are offline, countries that are not english-speaking don't have many contributors that can check the local libraries, scholars that don't have english language as native language collaborate less often, etc (see Wikipedia:Systemic bias for the complete list). This is not because of a anti-Ikwerre conspiracy, this is common to all articles due to the structure of wikipedia itself. You will have to get a copy of the works of those authors and cite them yourself and add them to the article in the proper place, other editors can't do it because they don't have access to the books so it's imposible for them to do it.

• Chris Johson has proposed an alternative opening sentence for the lead, in another section of the talk page, to indicate better that there are several theories. You should comment there.

• If "Igbo authors speaking of Igbo origin" have a bias then "Ikwerre authors speaking of Ikwerre origin" have the same bias. There is an Ikwerre author cited in the article saying that most Igbo scholars think the Igbo origin is the strongest one and that even some Ikwerre also think it.

• Oficial recognition is not the same as recognition by scholars. Czechoslovakia recognized officially the "Czechoslovak language" with Czech language and Slovak language being two dialects of the same language. These two languages had been diverging for many years due to nationalistic pressures. When the country broke in two pieces the official recognition changed from one day to another, but the languages didn't change[3] (pages 93-95 for a short summary) A few months after the breaking of the country, I heard in the train a tourist from that country making jokes about how similar the languages were despite being officially different, and how it was all exclusively due to political reasons, and not because of any scholar reason. --Enric Naval (talk) 11:26, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

The Igbo territories are cited and sourced in Igboland, not here, so the place for that discussion is in Talk:Igboland. I made a change to that article saying that Igboland includes some parts of Rivers State, not the whole of it. The template at the bottom of the page is also a different issue. --Enric Naval (talk) 11:26, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Enric Naval for your matured response and hopefully more usefull improvment will be made to create balance. Systematic bias is uncalled for and I also feel Ikwerre should be alowed to honestly tell their own story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dimama (talk • contribs) 18:59, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

The irony and absurdity of this argument is that even if we should find a book written by an Ikwerre, we wouldn't even be able to differentiate whether the author is 'Ikwerre or Igbo' because members of these groups answer the exact same names. There's nothing, absolutely nothing reliable on the internet or otherwise that will classify the Ikwerre as non-Igbo. Using the Nigerian government as a reliable source is very smart indeed, a government that has no idea of how many people are living, coming and going in its country and a government that sees its budget as a route to a shopping spree.

By the way Akwa Ibom and Cross river have Igbo territories as stated by your reliable government here and here from here.Ukabia (talk) 19:22, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Please Ukabia try to be a litle bit objective in your reasoning and avoid sentiments ok. Try not to take it very personal. I surggest you make more reasonable contributions and not unreasonable attacks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dimama (talk • contribs) 08:01, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Igbo or benin empire origin

the ikwerres are not igbo, their original name is iwhurueha. The history of the ikwerre has generated a lot of arguments which prompted it's recognised proffessors to venture into a fact finding mission,in order to discover the true history of the ikwerre,The elites of ikwerre origin after sighting some fact and evidence came to the conclution that the ikwerre's(Iwhurueha) are originaly from the old benin empire in nigeria, although time and distance has made their language and other traditions to gradualy fade away thereby causing the ikwerre's to gradualy adapt to the language of their close neigbours which are the igbo. Also the aged men of ikwerre has testified through evidence that they are of benin origin —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.205.174.201 (talk • contribs) 11:16, 29 January 2009 (moved from article page)

A recent expansion removed all references to Igbo origin, and didn't leave clear their origin. Can someone cite some reliable source on the origin of Ikwerre? --Enric Naval (talk) 06:10, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Alright, all Ikwerre material will be removed from the Igbo article and any template relating to the Igbo. -- Ukabia (talk) 16:32, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Eeeeeh, is it wise to accept his statement without any reliable source to back it? I can't put my finger on a really strong source, but I can find sources like this book saying that "The most persuasive and strongest hypothesis is that which links the Ikwerre to the Igbo." and then making several pages of explanations about why there is a controversy over this origin. I think it's premature to do such a removal without good sources supporting it.

P.D.: And this bit that I found in google books is out of context so it could be irrelevant, but I find it very worrying:

"The Igbo indigenous who remained found it advantageous to deny their Igbo origin and claimed, instead, a non-Igbo Ikwerre identity (...)" Ethnicity and development in Nigeria, by Okwudiba Nnoli, United Nations Research Institute for Social Development

Someone with access to good books should look into this issue. --Enric Naval (talk) 21:16, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I had created this page and had put the Ikwerre as a sub-group of the Igbo, but I had found that the Ikwerre editors on wikipedia revert this and, instead, claim their an independent ethnic group. If you look at the edit history you will see this (I knew this would be a problem anyway). I guess I shouldn't be so hasty in accepting these claims without sources, but I know that if the Ikwerre page states that they are Igbo this will be a problem for a lot of people and the page will continue to be drastically changed. What can be done if the people themselves refuse their own origin? -- Ukabia (talk) 15:00, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

By the way I'm very aware of the politics of this all. -- Ukabia (talk) 15:35, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Wellll, we could put in the article good sources talking about the Igbo origin, mention that there are several theories and that this is the strongest one, mention in the article that the origin is very contested, explain well all the theories of origin and the evidence available for each one, and protect the page if they someone decides to start reverting it all the time without trying to reach a compromise. (yeah, it's a lot of work, I know) --Enric Naval (talk) 17:23, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I added this source (pages 26-35): [4] --Enric Naval (talk) 19:06, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Opening sentence

I'm wondering if this is more conclusive about their status as an Igbo subgroup than we want to be in the opening sentence, given the obvious dispute. How about something like the following: "The Ikwerre (also spelt Ikwere) are an ethnic group of southeastern Nigeria. They are generally considered a subgroup of the Igbo people, although a few consider themselves a separate ethnicity." --Chris Johnson (talk) 21:22, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that can work. Let's also add that they are recognized officially as a separate group. --Enric Naval (talk) 10:39, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

How about something like: "The Ikwerre (also spelt Ikwere) are one of the many ethnic groups in the Niger Delta region of [[Nigeria]" that makes more sense to me.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Dimama (talk • contribs) 18:59, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

The opening sentence

Although you say that "Ikwerre are considered by a great majority of scholars as a separate group from Igbo people of southeastern Nigeria" you still go ahead to say they are a sub group of the igbo. At no point in this article did you mention that the ikwerre people are also known as Iwhnurọhna people. In the words of K.O. Amadi (1993) , “Traditions suggest that Ikwerre is a nickname given to Iwhnuruọhna people…..They have ever since regarded themselves as a distinct group and have happily come a long way in their struggle for self-identity as evidenced by the recognition of their language as one of the Nigerian languages.”

Amadi, K.O. (1993). Studies in Ikwerre History and Culture , in Nduka, O. (ed) (1993) Craft Publishing Ltd

Semi-protected edit request on 24 February 2020

Let me correct first impression ikwerre doesn't speak Igbo...

Secondly in writing various communities in the clan as a Historian it should be listed based on seniority... Choba is last born I see no reason it should come before any other community. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.68.198.30 (talk) 12:49, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Ikwerre as a subgroup of igbo is not correct

The origin of Ikwerre from the Igbo scholars are incorrect. Ikwerre can not be linked to Arochukwu when the first Aro who migrated to ikwerre land met already occupied territory. None of the clan in ikwerre land was formed by any igbo descendant(Aro) as all the names of the Ikwerre communities have no igbo meaning. The core ikwerre burial rituals, traditional rites of passages, rituals associated with festivals, dancing, farming pattern, methods of cooking, market days, etc is totally different from the Igbos. No clan in ikwerre land speaks same dialect. So the claim of an ikwerre dialect as a sub to the igbo language is not accurate.

Wikipedia have to disregard the claims of igbo scholars and consider other neutral accounts and narratives from the people themselves. No one tells his stories more than himself.

Thank you. Just because there was a move of a certain subgroup for a better life due to civil war to the terrain of another does not now mean that they emanated from that sub group please. And it is known fact that the Igbo group have times without number tried to lay claim on the Ikwerre group hence you find a high tendency for the Ikwerre people to always protect their lands due to the igbos always finding a way to infiltrate. Please let the truth be said always as the Ikwerre people do not like to talk much until it is time for action. Nottrueatall2 (talk) 05:30, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Article does not represent the views of the people it claims to be about

Hello. It is great to have people write articles on Wikipedia, it often serves as a helpful source of information on several public issues. However I could not help but notice the errors in this article. The article seems to be pushing a single point of view, which I assume is against the rules of wikipedia. The Ikwerre people have never in their history been identified as Igbos, they only share similar language cluster that includes the igbo language and others, as pointed out by Kay Williamson. The Ikwerre people themselves, for instance through their apex socio-cultural organisation, Ogbakor Ikwerre worldwide, and their apex youth organisations have cleared previously misconstrued knowledge and opinions about the Ikwerre people. One of the sources that can be cited is the Ikwerre rescue Charter (1999) which clearly establishes the identity and sovereignty of the Ikwerre ethnic nationality and people themselves, as recognised by law. Given that it is freely available, it is almost undeniable that this article was not written to inform and educate (in accordance to wikipedia's rules), but rather to push a narrative that might have been favoured by its authors. The Ikwerre people themselves, of which I am a honourable member of are disappointed by this, and articles like this threatens the validity and relevance of Wikipedia platform. I believe articles can be written better, and the world is better off with less prejudiced, and more neutral articles. I bring peace and good tidings.

This is Highly Condescending to the Ikwerre's

Who ever edited this has to be an Igbo idiot. Kindly disregard such claims 102.89.33.56 (talk) 06:36, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 April 2023

102.90.47.129 (talk) 10:25, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Ikwerre is not a sub-Igbo group

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 11:14, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Iwhuruọha Is not a sub region of Igbo

People who write and post for public consumption should not generate fake information for public and call themselves fact finders. Iwhuruọha is different from Igbo People they have inter married and live among each other for decades that doesn’t make them one or sub regional clan... These are two different people. 102.90.46.35 (talk) 21:47, 20 April 2023 (UTC)