Talk:Iftah Ya Simsim/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Zanimum (talk · contribs) 01:34, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

This was all prepared offline back on the 16th, so possibly a few things aren't relevant anymore, I haven't looked at the article history to see if there's been any mods since then.

Just looked myself, and nope there hasn't been. I'll let you know if there are. ;) Thanks for the review!

Was it a conscious decision to avoid an infobox?

Well, I don't know if it was conscious, but I tend to hate 'em, although not as much as in the past. I can add one, if you like.

Passing lead.

Background

• Is SW really necessary? This is probably only used internally and on forum posts, I've never heard the media use it. Even if it were common, there's only three references total to Sesame Workshop in the article, hardly necessary for an abbreviation. (That said, keep CTW, it shortens a far longer name.)

Hmm, interesting. You're the very first person, in over a dozen SS articles, that has given me this feedback, even with Sesame Workshop (another FA), which uses the SW acronym often. Actually, "CTW" is used consistently by most sources, bit "SW" not so often. "The Workshop" is also used often. I can change it as per your request, though.

It would work in other articles, where you make more references to Sesame Workshop. If there were even just five references to the modern name, you'd be 100% justified to introduce the initials, but three is just too few to be bothered.

Good to know for the future, thanks.

• $96 million... is that all-time, or annually?

The source states that they earned that amount the year earlier, in 1994, so I changed it for clarification.

Original production

• Does "first of its kind in the Arab world" refer to educational productions, co-productions, or the use of MSA? As for the first co-pro with MSA, the first Sesame Workshop, or first co-pro for any org? (Though I doubt there'd be too many co-pros in any language.)

Clarified, changed to: "Iftah Ya Simsim was the first children's educational TV program of its kind in the Arab world, and the first Sesame Street co-production in the region." Hope that helps.

• "According to Al-Khayr & Al-Samira'i, the program reinforced"... you don't introduce this duo until the final paragraph of Legacy and influence. Might benefit with some context up here.

Thought that I caught all the instances of his kind of thing. Thanks for the catch.

• Did the series actually use shadow puppets and "the puppets of Egypt", or were they just visual inspiration for the local Muppets? I'm finding the general order of the second half of the fifth paragraph could be swapped about. You talk about local characters, translated characters, local characters.

Changed to "inspired by". Switched, hope it's where you were thinking.

• Did the local characters interact with human actors on 20th Street? Any reference to what roles the characters played, a local contrarian like Oscar, a local young-and-curious character like Big Bird? While Iftah lends itself to more academic-type writing, there surely are readers from Arab countries, who will be referring to this article to try and spark memories of their childhood show.

That would be cool to include, but there wasn't anything about it in the sources. It seems that most of the information written about the show, especially in the Arab press, assumes that viewers will remember it. Which is unfortunate, I realize, since it would make the article more fun to read, even for those of us who are unfamiliar with the show. The only thing I found about the show's content was the description of the characters and the opening, which I included. Wish there was more.

Fair enough. (Interesting, there was a character on the show that looked as rudementary in construction as Kitty Purry.)

Oh, like I needed that image in my head! You know that she got kicked off Sesame Street, right? ;)

• "New segments..." I presume this refers to live action segments without puppets? Is there any way to make this clearer? Any evidence of new animation?

The assumption was that people would understand that they're segments not created by the American show and dubbed, which is often how many other co-productions were done. To make things easier, and because the source doesn't really clarify what it means, I took the easy way out and removed the phrase. The segments were all newly created, anyway.

• I believe that I've seen period references (or at least references earlier than 2013) about the storming of the set. Adding a second reference to this would help build the reader's trust; the "it is said" seems shifty.

This was the only source that I found. I used a direct quote partly for this reason, since I suspect that it's an urban myth. That's what the source states, so I don't know how to make it less shifty.

Legacy and influence

• It might be of worth spelling it out in full again, "According to researcher Ibrahim Al-Khulaifi," as I had forgot who he was.

Okay, done. Different reviewers have different opinions about this, but I side with yours because depending upon the length of the section, you can look at it as a different article. I know that I'd forget, too, but I'm used to reviewers going the other way.

• Most readers (myself included) have no idea what "Khaleeji actors and children" are. Is that a cultural group? Is that the Arab Hollywood?

Actually, it means people from the cultural group. I had it linked, but I can see why we'd need to identify and explain further, so that's what I did: "...which used actors and children from the region, known as Khaleeji, in their roles."

Revival

• A now dead Voice of America article and this interview both suggest the Kuwaiti puppeteer is actually Dina al-Saleh. What appears to be her Facebook profile seems to support this. I'm guessing The National slipped up.

No, the above sources are about the Egyptian co-production, Alam Simsim, which debuted in 2000. This article states her part in the Kuwaiti co-production. It's my intention to, where possible, improve and bulk up all the articles about individual co-productions. It's been a delightful surprise that my research turned up so many sources about this one, so that I think that there's a potential for a future FA. As I've stated elsewhere, I think that it will be fun; plus, it'll go far in helping with the systemic bias we hear so much about around here.

Correct, those two website are indeed about the Egyptian co-production, and it's great to know that you're working through them all. But this article says that Dina, from Egypt, was sent to Kuwait to screen candidates. Her name is Dina al-Saleh; while I'm confident that the rest of the article is accurate, Albawaba got her name wrong. Definitely continue citing Albawaba as proof that she screened candidates, but her name needs to be fixed. It's like if there was an article about Mark Train speaking to a group, we could use the article as proof he spoke to the group, but we'd put his name in the article as Mark Twain.

Update: I've just modified her name in the article. Since it was just a typo on the website's part, I don't think we need a reference to a website with the correct spelling of her name, I think we can make due as-is.

I totally agree, and thanks for going ahead and taking care of that. I think that much of the issue is a second-language issue. Some of the English in some of the sources are a bit, may I say, clunky. I suspect this will be an issue for many of the co-productions.

• Just looking, it doesn't appear that Dina's name, or the "master level training" quote is from the website referenced. Where is it from really?

Just needed an extra ref, which I added.

Thanks!

Passing Notes, Works cited.

Images all acceptable, but it would be nice to eventually get a truly free image of Joan, not just one free on a technicality.

That seems to be the majority of it. Good work. -- Zanimum (talk) 01:34, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks as always. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 19:52, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Passing, GA! -- Zanimum (talk) 22:42, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Yippee, thanks so much. It's my intention to bring this to FAC next, something I didn't consider was possible when I took it on. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 05:06, 24 July 2014 (UTC)