Talk:Hungry (Winger song)

Move?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move. JPG-GR (talk) 17:18, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

• Hungry (Winger song) → Hungry (song) — The Winger song is currently the only song by this title with an article and was, until recently, at Hungry (song). Another editor moved the article to (Winger's song) and turned the (song) page into dab page. I moved (Winger's song) to the correctly named (Winger song), and redirected (song) to it. But the article should be returned to its original location with a hatnote directing users to Hunger (disambiguation) for other songs with the title "Hungry". — ShelfSkewed Talk 04:43, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
• But there are several other songs named "Hunger" and similar, even if they do not have Wikipedia articles of their own yet: there is a need to say in the article name which of those songs is described here. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 11:09, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Added link, but until there are any other articles, there is no need to pre-emptively disambiguate them in the title. 199.125.109.126 (talk) 16:09, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
• If I was a pop music fan and knew of several songs named "Hungry", and I wanted information on only one of them, I would prefer to know before wasting my and the internet's time calling up an unwanted page and reading it, which of these songs is described on that page. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 17:52, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

What you are suggesting is a wholesale change to the existing Wikipedia guidelines for article naming, in particular the Wikipedia:Disambiguation guidelines and the WikiProject Music naming conventions, which say that articles should have the simplest possible disambiguation. But that's not what is being debated here. According to existing guidelines, because the Winger song is the only song titled "Hungry" with a Wikipedia article, it should be at Hungry (song). If you think the overall article-naming conventions should be changed, then that discussion should be taken up elsewhere --ShelfSkewed Talk 19:36, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

• Support move. Article name is not currently ambiguous per WP:NAME and WP:D. dissolve^talk 21:15, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
• Support move. Move back if another "Hungry" article is created. The naming conventions are clear about this. Jafeluv (talk) 07:04, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
• Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Music currently (as edited at 17:13, 13 February 2009 by User:First Light) says: "Name the article in its most common form, adding the composer's surname in parentheses after it if more than one piece has that title.", not "... more than one piece with a Wikipedia article has that title.". I have never edited page Wikipedia:Naming conventions. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 07:09, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move back again

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was has been moved Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:37, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
There is now another song with the same name with a Wikipedia article, so this should be moved back to "Hungry (Winger song)."

There would have been several more "Hungry" song articles just after I made the original change, but my disk crashed. It's a pity that the reversion deleted the "Hungry (song)" WP:DDAB page I created, because that list of similarly titled songs is now lost. The current "Hunger" page includes only a few.

The Paul Revere song was a top-40 hit. Fijagdh (talk) 13:15, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay--it's been moved. Your list is not lost--see this older version of the Hunger (disambiguation) page. However, all the songs you listed that are called "Hungry" are listed on the current version of the page. All the other songs just have "hungry" somewhere in the title and so don't belong on the dab page.--ShelfSkewed Talk 15:09, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Support moving the song by Winger back to Hungry (Winger song) and redirecting Hungry (song) to the DAB. The only question is whether one of the other songs might be a primary usage. That case needs to be made if so, but it's certainly not the Winger song. Andrewa (talk) 15:22, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Just FYI: The Hungry entries had become numerous enough that I moved them to a separate dab page: Hungry (disambiguation). All incoming links to both dab pages requiring fixing or disambiguation have been taken care of.--ShelfSkewed Talk 16:54, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

• Here is the disambig list of "Hungry" songs:

---

"Hungry" is the title of several songs, including recordings by:

• The Emersons
• Billy Guy
• Paul Revere & the Raiders
• Winger

Similar song titles include:

• "Hungry Like a Man" by Courtney and Western
• "Hungry Man" by Louis Jordan and His Tympany Five
• "Hungry Women" by Eddie Cantor
• "I'm Hungry" by Parry Gripp
• "The Lady is Hungry" by Les Reines Prochaines
• "Me So Hungry" by 3 Local Boyz

---

Anthony Appleyard (talk)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

What's disamb for if not to sort out similar titles?

Thanks. I did look for it among all the histories of the different pages but could not find it.

If the disambiguation page isn't the place for such a list, where is? I may be missing some fine point of Wikipedia rules -- there are so many of them -- but isn't the point of disambiguation to help people find things? The difference between "Hungry," "I'm Hungry" and "Hungry Man" is no greater than the difference between John Ambler Smith, John Butler Smith and John Joseph Smith, which are all on the John Smith dab page. Or, for that matter, Mercury Records, Project Mercury and Mercury (plant), to give the example at WP:D. Somebody doing a search may well remember "that hungry song" and little else. That's how I got into this in the first place. Fijagdh (talk) 23:15, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

The assumption behind disambiguation pages is that a user already knows which article is wanted but needs to be directed to the correctly named article in the most efficient way. All those John Smiths might be called just John Smith, and possibly have an article titled "John Smith", and the same for those Mercurys--and sorting them out is what a dab page is for. But "I'm Hungry" is called "I'm Hungry" and it won't be found at an article called "Hungry". A vague search for "a song with 'hungry' in the title" is what the Search function is for.--ShelfSkewed Talk 23:37, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Songs called "Hungry" (with lyric, for example, "I'm hungry for the good things") and "I'm Hungry" are far more ambiguous than Project Mercury and Mercury Records. And the search function is no help. Search on "I'm Hungry" and you do not get to Parry Gripp but are redirected to My Daughter the Broad. Fijagdh (talk) 00:10, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

All right, let me admit that I wrote too hastily and took too hard a line in my previous. If a user might reasonably think that a particular item is called by the dabbed term, even if it doesn't match exactly, then it can be accomodated in a See also section at the bottom of the dab page, provided that it either has an article or is mentioned in an article it can be tied to. So the songs whose performers have articles, provided that those articles mention the songs, can be included. Of course, the best way to make it easier for users to find those songs, by whatever path, is to create articles for them ;-) --ShelfSkewed Talk 04:38, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

In many cases, an individual song should not have its own article, because it doesn't meet standards for Wikipedia:Notability ... which doesn't mean that it shouldn't be referenced in another article, such as one on its performer, its record label, its musical style, instruments played in it, its subject matter, an organization associated with it, and so on. But people can't search for it in such articles unless they can find out what the exact title is.

I was going to add a mention of "I'm Hungry" to the Parry Gripp article, but then I discovered that Parry Gripp redirects to Nerf Herder. And in any case, "I'm Hungry" searches would still be redirected to My Daughter the Broad. At this point I'm kind of losing my taste for the whole thing.... Fijagdh (talk) 20:14, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Let's see: You could add a section on solo works to Nerf Herder, and mention the song there, if it's noteworthy enough. Or create an article for the album the song is from and include a track list. Either way, you could then commandeer the I'm Hungry redirect--it's a bad redirect anyway, and probably shouldn't have been created in the first place--and turn it into a slightly-less-than-kosher disambiguation page listing the two songs and pointing each to its respective album, and then add that dab page to the See also section of Hungry (disambiguation). That, or take a nap. Whatever. Cheers! --ShelfSkewed Talk 20:41, 24 February 2009 (UTC)