Talk:Honey, I Shrunk the Kids (franchise)

WP:USERGENERATED

User generated content is not allowed, see WP:USERGENERATED. Fundamentally user voted web polls are not a reliable source WP:RS. Both WP:MOSFILM (Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Film#Audience_response) and MOS:TVRECEPTION also specifically say not to use IMDB user votes.

User:DisneyMetalhead disagrees with this policy. I ask this editor to clearly state why an exception should be made in this case. I see no special reason that IMDB user votes would be especially notable here. If you think there is a special reason to ignore the rules then please state your case clearly and in detail. I encourage you to ask for WP:THIRDOPINIONs. -- 109.79.176.13 (talk) 01:01, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

• @User:109.79.176.13; as I stated before, when a series of films has limited information, when the reviews differ from critic to public response, and when the table in question is specifically showing/depicting/portraying the differences in critic vs audience reception - what is the reason that the information would not be provided. The guidence you referred to specifically states: "generally unacceptable" (emphasis added). Secondly the second guideline you refer to is for TV articles. This article is about a film franchise.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 05:33, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

The rules already say audience scores should not be included, if you want to ignore the rules the burden is on you to show there is a good reason to do it. I referred to other guidelines for emphasis, including IMDB scores is generally a terrible idea, and we have many guidelines discouraging it at multiple different levels. Fundamentally it is just not a reliable source. And even if you believe think the figures aren't fundamentally unreliable to begin with, they rarely show anything significant beyond a small positive bias, which can largely be put down to self selection bias. (Conversely critics can be unfairly harsh when forced to sit through yet another Adam Sandler film, since they don't actively chose what they see.)

As you say there are sometimes rare exceptions, such as the recent example being when Dave Chappelle's stand up show got very low ratings from critics, but very high ratings from audiences. Not only was there a noticeable contrast, this also received significant coverage from other sources. In the case of this film franchise there is only small divergence and there is no indication that it is significant or notable and there are no secondary sources suggesting there was any particular disconnect between the opinion of critics and general audiences. Even in cases like the The Flintstones (film), where critics hated it and audiences went to see it anyway, the huge box office better indicates that disconnect better than including IMDB scores would.

There are better ways to do it, whatever it is you are trying to do. Franchise articles tend to be full of lists and tables, not because they must but because that is the easiest way to get them started. The better articles gradually don't rely on them so much, I would also ask you to take note of one of the other fundamental guidelines WP:PROSE and instead of trying to show things using a table to instead use prose to clearly explain to readers whatever point you are trying to make. If you want to show that a family film was popular despite the critics there is almost always a better way to do that than using IMDB scores in a table, as I said box office analysis is an indirect indication of audiences liking a film that you could expand on. Some critics are simply better are reviewing a film on its merits and making it clear if a film is likely to appeal to the target audience, so you might select reviews like that and include them as general critical response or as counter-points. Retrospective reviews revisiting the franchise can also show that a film had continued interest over the years. It isn't always easy to find but but for family films such as these it might be possible to find ratings for when they were first run [Edit: on network television] or some special occasion when they were rerun. -- 109.78.237.56 (talk) 15:23, 4 November 2019 (UTC)