Talk:Herat Province

History?

I note that this is entirely modern, referring only to the present-day happenings. the article on Herat itself covers much more - should this article not be similar? Peter Shearan 06:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Recent Edits

recent edits done by an anon IP is not considered clean up. He has removed sourced information and is pushing his POV like in any other article.--Inuit18 (talk) 20:45, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Ethnic composition

What is the source for the following estimates, "he ethnical composition of the Province is as follows: Tajiks (also known as Farsiwan meaning Persian and Parsiban meaning Persian-speaker; 80%-85%), Hazaras, Aimak, Pashtuns and others. Persian language is spoken as native language by ca. 90% of the population, mainly by Tajiks and Hazaras."? Neither of the two sources, MRRD or NPS mentions anything about those estimates. The only thing MRRD writes is that "Dari and Pashtu are spoken by 98% of the population". (Ketabtoon (talk) 18:52, 13 August 2011 (UTC))

There are enough sources. Beside that the mrrd source is from the 90s. Secondly, that the main population speak Persian is an indicator for the fact that the province is dominated by non-Pashtuns, specially by it´s real and indigine and thousand of years old people, the Tajiks. There are many displaced Pashtuns, too. I can give you all the pdf datas and send it via Mail. Just ask for it :). Pashtuns speak their own language and that is Afghani/Pashtu and live mostly in the deserts or villages far away from the centres and urban region of Herat. Tajiks form not only in the city the absolute majority but also in the province as whole. While Pashtuns only settled in regions with smaller population but in a wider belt, Tajiks occupy nearly every part of the country but mostly dominate a certain region with villages and smaller cities close to eachother. Take Khost district as an example. From 128 villages, only 42 are inhabitet by Pashtuns, tough the village is very far from the urbane centres. And Tajiks still dominate the district. --AhmadShahAbdali (talk) 19:03, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

I know that for you such discription like the lazy and laughable source of mrrd and it´s lingusitical number are very good because you can (try to) hide facts about the majority question in a certain region. --AhmadShahAbdali (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't need you to e-mail me the sources. Post them here, otherwise your information will be deleted. And there is no need for your original research in here. (Ketabtoon (talk) 19:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC))

If mrrd is able to give such a figure 98% (from where do they know that Turkmen, Baluchs do not speak Farsi, too and thus Herat is a 100% Tajik province or Persianspeaking province) than they can also give more datas on the ethnical composition. But the fact is that MRRD is led by a Pashtunist with the name Abdul Pashtun (now kicked out of the organization and a reformation is going on under Mansur Jan)--AhmadShahAbdali (talk) 19:10, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

The information coming from Afghanistan's Ministry of Rural Rehabilitation and Development (MRRD) is the most recent and most acceptable, which is supported by Naval Postgraduate School (an accredited research university operated by the United States Navy). The MRRD is headed by Jarullah Mansoori [1] who happens to be an ethnic Tajik, not a Pashtun as you wrongly claim. Since at least the 1700s the province has been governored by Pashtuns (List of governors of Herat). The Naval Postgraduate School states: "Ethnic Groups: Pashtun Tajik Hazara Taimuri Qala Nau Chahar Aimak Firozkohi Jamshedi Karkar Kuchis" [2] and even has a map [3] to show the areas of each ethnic group. Anyone who disagrees with this and tries to remove it is just here for distortion.--Dupree fan (talk) 00:16, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

AhmadShahAbdali used http://afghanistan.world-estate.com/ , which is a mirror site reflecting Wikipedia intro of an older version of Herat CITY's article. [4] I'm now convinced that AhmadShahAbdali (who's also under various Ips originating from Germany) is distorting the demography section here and in the articles of other Afghan provinces.--Dupree fan (talk) 00:47, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Chahar Aimaks all are as well part of Tajiks as the Persian population of Herat. You must reduce these to the term Tajik. Kakars are not even Awghans. You will not be able to push your ethno POVs here. By trying to turn words to your POV will not change the facts. MRRD was led by (Abdul) Yusuf Pashtun till he was kicked out this year from the organization due the usage of wrong figures, informations and his close ties to the Pashtun nationalist pary Afghan Mellat. I did not claimed that Mansuri is a Pashtun. Stop turning words to your favour. That is one reason why MRRD is right now on a new formation. Another reason is that MRRD uses sources from the 1990 and even from earliest times (we know that every source under Pashtun government was forged in favour of Pashtuns! and there are many sources on that on th Net). NAVAL POSTGRADUATE SCHOOL is an independant organization, not directly working with MRRD but from 2001 to 2005 they depended on eachother´s support but the work of both organizations are not finished and not in all ways correct due the complexe situation in Afghanistan. Like Herat, Kabul was also governt (with the support of foreigners, once Safavids and than any other kind of foreigners) but it does not mean that Kabul is a Pashtun region. Abdalis and their savagery were used by Safavids against the northern threat i.e Uzbeks and Russians. In 1700 there were only some ca. 2500 TO 3000 Abdali Pashtuns in Herat, favoured and supported by their Iranian masters and the husbend of some of their daughters. Read Tarikh e Ahmadshahi. Compare the Abdalis (ca 2500 TO 3000) and the fact that Heratis dominated the province and city (City:85000; Province:115000 ). The map of NPS is used there, too. Noone have deleted it. Your claims are holdless! You want to delete informations of non-Pashtuns domination by using the language section. Be it so, so Tajiks are 98% of the province. Pashtuns do not speak Tajiki/Bukhari(Dari). They are Afghani-speaking. That means 2% are Pashtuns. Majority are Tajiks and Hazaras. Stop spreading your POVs. Why your 'Source' does not give an exact number of the speakers there and why they name Afghani and Tajiki at the same time? Are they afraid to come up with the truth that even in Herat the number of Pashtuns were reduced for the last 30years and dramastically in the last 10years when they were driven out by the indigene populaation who claimed the Pashtuns supporting Taliban and mined their homes and lands? The only region Pashtuns today dominate is Ghurian and to a apart Adraskan. The reason is not that they live their in a very high numbers but because they live their in the deserts mostly alone and far away from eachother in a long distance that they populate a larger region. The fact that Herat province is a Persian/Tajik-dominated province, from language to culture and identity, from policy (every ethnicity have got his per centage part in Herat like in the jirgas just that this is provincial) to it´s history, proves one think. Heratis (Tajiks) are the majority and all other people in a minority statues. That´s a fact. Herat is not Kandahar or Paktia. Herat is Iran, Tajikistan, Khorasan. The city is dominated by Shias while the province as whole by Sunni Tajiks (Ismael Khan, Bezad, Nayibzadah...). My IP´s origin does have no meaning here. I can be from Germany, America, Afghanistan or whereever. There are 83Mio Germans and at least 500 000 of them work on WikiEngl. What do you want to say with the IP part? Don´t make looking yourself pathetic.

Sincerly Ahmadshah Abdali--188.107.15.84 (talk) 08:43, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Ps: not Afghanistan world-state is a mirror of Wikipedia but the other way. It was cited from that on Wikipedia.--188.107.15.84 (talk) 12:50, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

1) Anything you add should be neutral and sourced with verifiable sources. So far you have not provided any credible sources to back up your estimates and claims. The only source you have provided is a commercial real estate website which apparently has copied it's information from wikipedia. If you think it is the other way around, do yourself a favor and check Kandahar or Afghanistan as well. If you look closely, they have used the same content as we have here in wikipedia.

2) Limit your(Paristani) theories and original research to Tajikm.com. Too bad if you don't want to accept MRRD (Ministry of Rural Rehabilitation & Development of Afghanistan). It is a government ministry, and the information provided in their website is a joint work of that ministry and Central Statistics Office of Afghanistan + UNHCR. (Ketabtoon (talk) 04:48, 15 August 2011 (UTC))

Someone has emailed me and said that the person behind these various German IPs is Sommerkom (talk · contribs) [5], a.k.a. Chartinael (talk · contribs) [6]. Some of his already banned names are:

• AhmadShahAbdali (talk · contribs)
• Germany2008 (talk · contribs)
• Draco of Utopia (talk · contribs)
• Šāhzādé (talk · contribs)
• Tajik-Professor (talk · contribs)

The source told me that his original and master account name may be Sikandarji (talk · contribs) which he hasn't used since January 2010.--Dupree fan (talk) 15:42, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

here is another source for you http://afghanag.ucdavis.edu/country-info/Province-agriculture-profiles/unfr-reports/All-Afghanistan.pdf/view — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.27.230.123 (talk) 11:52, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

In terms of tribal and ethnic groups, Shindand is one of the most diverse districts in Herat Province. Eighty percent of the Shindand

population is Pashtun and twenty percent consists of Tajik, Timuris and other tribes. Of the latter figure, eighty percent of Tajiks live within the city of Shindand, which includes Qasaba and surrounding villages. As per USAID https://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PA00JG5G.pdf 182.180.61.170 (talk) 05:15, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

"Historically, Herat city has been a Tajik-dominated enclave in a Pashtun-majority province that includes sizeable Hazara and Aimaq minorities" United States Institute of Peace, Study in March, 2015. https://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/PW107-Political-and-Economic-Dynamics-of-Herat.pdf 182.180.61.170 (talk) 05:20, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Adrakshan: Mainly Nurzai Pashtun, with some Tajik and Aimaqs. Chisti Sharif: Mix of Pashtun, Tajik and Others. Enjil: Tajik, Pashtun and Syeds. Ghorian: Pashtun (Durrani30%), Tajik (20%), Aimak, Hazara, other pashtuns. Guzara: Pashtun and Tajiks. Herat: Mixed. Karukh: Tamorai, Jamshidai, Tajik and Zoori. The largest is the Tamorai. Kushk: Jamshidi make up 50 percent of the population, Taimuri 20 percent and Zari 15 percent.other groups are Firuz Kohi, Taheri, Mish Nast, Balochi, Turkaman and Pashtuns. The Pashtun tribes include the Kakar, Alizai, Ishaqzai and Nurzai. Kohsan: The different ethnic and tribal groups include Pushtuns, Baluch, Jamshidis, Taheris, Taimori (Khamadis) and Mish Mast. The Baluch tribes consisting of the Rakhshani, Barahoi, Gala Bacha (sub-tribe), Rigi and Dahmarde, make up about 25 percent of the population. Within the Pushtuns, the Alizais form about 18 percent and the remainder consists of Baritchs, Achakzais, Populzais, Nurzais, Ghorizais and Madizais (th sub-tribes of the Nurzai). Obeh: The kuchis are predominant in the mountainous areas. The majority of the population are Kipchaks (a branch of the Taimori ethnic group), followed by Ghilzais and Sayeds. Pashtun Zarghun: The main Pushtun tribes are the Achakzais and the Barakzais with some representation of Alkozai, Kharoti, Nurzai, Akhunzada and Eshaqazai. other ethnic groups include: Tajiks, Arab, sayed, Aqa Mir, Mughal, Tamori, Taheri, Balouch, Zoori, Khuja, Tanzai and Taimani. Zendajan: The principal ethnic group is Tajik, comprising 40 percent of the population. Pushtuns(49%) are represented by the Alizais (20 percent), Khogianis (10 percent), Achakzai and Barakzai (10 percent), and Popalzai (9 percent). 'Ihe Marvi, Khwaja, Makoo, Baluch and Maleki ethnic groups make up the remaining. According to UNHCR Survey conducted in 1990. http://afghandata.org:8080/jspui/bitstream/azu/3327/1/azu_acku_pamphlet_ds374_h47_1990_w.pdf 182.180.61.170 (talk) 07:45, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Note that the population of Herat is being showed as more than 2 million while that of Nangarhar is being showed as 1.5 million, to prop-up non-pashtun population 101.50.109.124 (talk) 17:58, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Southwest?

The second sentence of this article says: "Together with Badghis, Farah, and Ghor provinces, it makes up the south-western region of Afghanistan." If the "south-western region" is some formal designation that I'm not aware of, then it should be capitalized. If not, then how can it include Badghis (along Afghanistan's northern border) but not Nimruz (as far southwest as you can actually go in the country)? 74.71.94.218 (talk) 08:49, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

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Suspected ethnic-conflict editing

I noticed @1DHNK1: editing the ethnic composition of the Herat districts. All of them to an unlogical 99% Tajiks composition. There are no sourced provided that support this claim neither does the referenced "source" of the user support this claim. You can use this talk page......--Casperti (talk) 17:46, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Dear friend, I had like you to first thoroughly read the source that I have used. There is a language map that I have based the calculations from. If you disagree with the percentages thats fine but please first look at the language map before making any decisions. 1DHNK1 (talk) 10:19, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

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