Talk:Breadalbane (ship)

Past or present tense

I there a convention for shipwrecks? Was a ship? Is a ship? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:06, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

HMS?

This ship wasn't, so far as I can tell, ever commissioned, which makes her simply Breadalbane. She doesn't show up in Winfield, R.; Lyon, D. (2004). The Sail and Steam Navy List: All the Ships of the Royal Navy 1815–1889. London: Chatham Publishing. ISBN 978-1-86176-032-6. OCLC 52620555., and I'd be interested to hear whether she shows up in Colledge, J. J.; Warlow, Ben (2006) [1969]. Ships of the Royal Navy: The Complete Record of all Fighting Ships of the Royal Navy (Rev. ed.). London: Chatham Publishing. ISBN 978-1-86176-281-8.. I'd suggest the article title needs changing - perhaps Breadalbane (ship)? Shem (talk) 11:50, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

She was apparently chartered by the Royal Navy for service as a transport and tender to H.M.S. Phoenix serving under the supervision of a government agent, so she surely wasn't commissioned. She doesn't appear in Colledge and Warlow. --Simon Harley (Talk | Library). 12:32, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

As you correctly state, the Breadalbane was not a naval vessel, but a mercantile ship chartered for use as a transport. The term "HMS" is particular to vessels owned by and/or commissioned into the British Navy, so this prefix was never applicable to the Breadalbane. The retitling you suggest should certainly be done.The Breadalbane was crushed in the ice as she lay anchored off Beechey Island, and sank in fifteen minutes. Her crew were all taken aboard HMS Phoenix by her commander, Commander Edward Inglethorpe. Canadian divers found the Breadalbane in 1981, in 340 feet of water. Rif Winfield (talk) 12:51, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

The article incorrectly refers to HMS Phoenix as a "sister ship", which she assuredly was not - the Phoenix was a steam-driven naval sloop (so the term "HMS" correctly applies to her); but please delete the reference to "sister ship". Note also that the article's final sentence "In 198, further visits to the Breadalbane were conducted ..." is missing a final digit from the year. Rif Winfield (talk) 12:42, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

The captain of the Phoenix was Commander Edward A. Inglefield, not Inglethorpe, though no doubt that's what you meant. --Simon Harley (Talk | Library). 13:07, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

You are perfectly correct, Simon. Obviously I've been reading too much Agatha Christie recently! Rif. Rif Winfield (talk) 14:53, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Uncontroversial, then. I've made the move and amended the text as discussed. Shem (talk) 17:33, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

I fully support this move, as other users have pointed out she doesn't appear in any of the lists and directories of the commissioned RN ships. Despite this look how several of the sources have jumped on an HMS bandwagon! Benea (talk) 22:14, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you all so much for helping with this article, and moving it to its correct name. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:14, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

No problem. One question, though - where did you get the position of the wreck from? This says 74 41 N 91 50W. Shem (talk) 14:31, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Sources said "half a mile south of Beechey Island in Lancaster Sound", so I Google Earthed it. Zoomed in on the right place and right-clicked "What's here?", grabbed the coordinates (something like 74.68999,-91.846962), which I added to the article, somehow omitting the "-", which, even with the "-", seems to land somewhere else. So, yes, navigation is probably not my long suit. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:30, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Well, that explains it. 74 decimal 69 is not the same as 74 degrees and 69 minutes (in fact, it's 74 degrees 41 minutes). Same with the longitude. The wreck is actually at 74° 41' N 91° 50'W. I'll make the appropriate changes. Shem (talk) 22:35, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Just so you know, your wonderful methods were very, very close, once I'd taken the minus sign out. Shem (talk) 22:39, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Close? Thank goodness I'm an editor and not a submarine navigator. I think I understand. By the way, I first searched the net for the coords and couldn't find them, so that' why I resorted to Google Earth. I think I should have first clicked "Center map here", then "What's here?". And I must have accidentally removed the "-" while adding the figures to the coords thingy. So if you were wondering: "How the heck did she get this so horribly wrong?" Now you know.

Also, I searched for a long time for an image, and the closest I got was some site that charged money for Illustrated London News images. So, kudos to you for grabbing that image. I'm delighted. And thanks again for fixing the coords. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:42, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

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