Talk:Grooming claw

Distribution of this character

Per chapter 17 in this book, tarsiers have a toilet claw on digits 2 and 3, not just on digit 3 as the article now says. And that chapter discusses at length the aye-aye having claws on digits 2 through 5. So the idea of toilet claw as distinct from nail and claw breaks down. --Una Smith (talk) 17:43, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

If your source agreed with the original information (that tarsiers have toilet-claws on digits 2 & 3), then why was it changed (or not changed back)? As for the second point, we may have to note the disagreement between the book chapter you mentioned and my original source (peer-reviewed journal article). The article I cited closely examined the histological structure of the the aye-ayes' 2nd digit and asserted that the digit did contain a toilet-claw. I'm curious to know if the book you mentioned cited this article and/or refuted its claims. - Visionholder (talk) 21:59, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Visionholder, I understood this article (here on Wikipedia) to say tarsiers have a toilet claw on 3, not on 2 and 3. When there is conflicting information, the situation needs to be examined, not flipped back and forth. The book chapter is online, so you can compare it to your source. Also, I think the heart of the matter is that some disagreement exists about whether a toilet claw is just a claw or something distinct from a claw. So, that issue needs to be discussed, before going into the taxonomic distribution of the character. --Una Smith (talk) 02:40, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

In regards to the tarsier toilet-claw, the original article (before your re-write) read as follows: [The toilet-claw] "is found on the second pedal digit in Strepsirrhines and on the second and third pedal digit of Tarsiiformes." (See diff) It was your edit that changed the statement from tarsiers having 2 toilet-claws (on digits 2 & 3) to only having 1 (on digit 3). That's why I was confused about your post above stating that the page is currently incorrect (when it was before your edits). As for the issue with aye-aye toilet-claws, I will review both sources in the near future and reflect the details appropriately. In fact, I was planning a re-write of this page to discuss the histological structure and evolution of the toilet-claw, but have been busy with my upcoming re-writes for Ruffed Lemur, Black-and-white Ruffed Lemur, and Red Ruffed Lemur, in addition to the Ring-tailed Lemur GA review. I'll try to get to it soon. As for the tarsier issue, I'll leave that for you to fix so it doesn't appear to be an edit war. Thanks for your work on this article! - Visionholder (talk) 04:42, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Yup, I misread and mangled it. Will now fix. --Una Smith (talk) 05:44, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Image

What this page really needs is a good closeup of a lemur foot, showing all the toes and their nails/claws. Or at least digits 2-5. The current close up is good in that it shows a toilet-claw but the context isn't clear enough. A reader not familiar with lemur feet probably would see that the toilet-claw is in digit 2. --Una Smith (talk) 05:44, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, however, this can be difficult given the hair that usually grows over the nails/toilet-claw. If I get another opportunity with the Black-and-white Ruffed Lemurs, I will try to re-take the photo. - Visionholder (talk) 05:59, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Etymology of term

is it called a toilet claw because they use it to wipe their butts or because it is shaped like a toilet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.175.83.141 (talk) 12:30, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah this article is almost useless for a layman. Likely people coming to this article want to know what it's for and don't care a great deal about which digit it occurs on. What is a toilet claw for, why is it name such, and how is it used? IMO These are questions that the article should answer. ILikeFish (talk) 14:16, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I apologize; that information is forthcoming. I've been a little busy lately, working on complete re-writes of multiple lemur articles, pushing for GA on others, and gearing up for a FA review on another. I created this article as a stub with the intent of coming back later. Maybe in a few hours I'll find time to address these questions within the article. If you want brief reply here and now (without any citations) then here you go:

1. 1. The term toilet, as used in American English, has evolved over time and does not mean the same thing between cultures, such as the U.S. and France. Historically, the term toilet was used to refer to personal grooming, not a lavatory device. Outside of the U.S., the term usually refers to a dressing room or bathroom (where you groom yourself). I suspect the etymology of the toilet-claw has roots in history or a European country. Regardless, the scientific literature strongly favors this term. A discussion of the naming of this term (and ultimately this article) was carried out here.
   2. It is used in grooming, to rake through the fur, particularly where an individual cannot reach with its mouth and toothcomb. - Visionholder (talk) 18:08, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

If its any help, term is directly related to the word "Toiletries" Didnt see anyone else mention it specificly by name so yeah.74.128.56.194 (talk) 15:30, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move to Grooming claw. Favonian (talk) 12:16, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

---

Toilet claw → Grooming claw – Although both terms are used in the academic literature, "grooming claw" seems more accessible to the public and appears to be winning out in the literature. ("grooming claw" vs. "toilet claw" on Google Scholar) Furthermore, I think "grooming claw" was originally used before "toilet claw", and it requires less explaining, since "toilet" as a term for grooming is dated. The target is already a redirect to this page. – VisionHolder « talk » 04:54, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

• Support as nominator – VisionHolder « talk » 04:54, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
• Agree, move the article. Mr. Atom Scania (talk) 16:25, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.