Talk:Greek–Yugoslav confederation

Disputed

I have extensively studied Greek war-time history, and I have never seen this confederation plan before. No history book of 20th-century Greece mentions it. Probably, it either didn't exist, or it only existed in the imaginative minds of certain naive Wilsonian diplomats. It is true that in the interwar period there was much military cooperation between Greece and Royal Yugoslavia, but the thought that the Greek government (even the very weak government-in-exile) would agree to such a thing as a confederation is simply absurd; and to make things more "interesting", a confederation with Balkan countries such as Albania and Romania. Greece at the time hated and looked down on every single Balkan/Eastern country (including Yugoslavia, despite the mutually beneficial military cooperation) and generally wanted nothing to do with Eastern European troubles. (the businesses and estates of Greek/Phanariot landowners in Balkan countries like Bulgaria and Romania had been nationalized) The motto "The Balkans for the Balkan People" should have been enough to deter every Greek official from getting involved. Likewise, the Balkan countries were very aggressive against Greece, including making demands for territorial concessions. This article should forcefully mention that if this wild plan existed, it was only in the realm of speculation on the part of some Wilsonian idealist. You can't support assertions like these based on a single book of an obscure author, this Jonathan Levy guy. Ανδρέας Κρυστάλλης (talk) 01:34, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Could you cite any works in support of your view? I am happy to treat your comments on good faith, and you are right this article needs more sources, but still, it is several sources (one relied upon heavily) vs your claim of having "extensively studied Greek war-time history". It would be great if you were to expand the article, and provide sources about this federation being an unimportant concept. If there is no expansion, and other sources, the tag should be adjusted or removed (for starters, I think that Template:Onesource would be more appropriate then the current Disputed one. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 15:49, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Well, if this confederation project was an important concept it would at least have been mentioned in books about 20th-century Greece. There is not a single mention of this plan in the works of both Anglo-American historians of Greece ( Mark Mazower, Christopher Montague Woodhouse, Richard Clogg) or Greek historians (Nikos Svoronos, Giorgos Margaritis, Konstantinos Svolopoulos). I was astonished when I read this article. I have no problem with the article being on wiki, but I seriously dispute the assertion that the Greek government-in-exile and the people who ran it (Tsouderos and Papandreou, of the Papandreou family) supported it. As I wrote above, even the very weak government-in-exile would have never accepted a plan that called for more contact with these countries, let alone one that called for a confederation. Ανδρέας Κρυστάλλης (talk) 18:40, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

You may well be right that this was not a serious plan, but currently we have several sources saying that it existed. If you think the article needs to expand on the weakness/unimportance of this plan, please, cite your sources. PS. While Levy's book is the primary source for details, the very fact that such a confederation existed is discussed in other sources cited here (Larres, Capet and Sy-Wonyu, Lipgens), so you cannot claim it is Levy's fringe theory. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 15:44, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I understand and respect your point about the existence of the plan. I don't doubt that there were people thinking about things like this. But I do doubt the assertion that the Greek government supported it. Unfortunately, I can't provide any references, because there is not a single book on wartime Greece that mentions this plan, let alone discussing it at length. The Greek elite of the time, steeped in the Megali Idea nationalism (which considered the Slavs barbaric) would have been very hostile to the idea of a confederation, and so would have been the Greek people because (regrettably and unfortunately) there was much racism and xenophobia against these countries at that time. So for me the issue isn't the existence of the plan, but the claim that it was supported by the government-in-exile. Regards. Ανδρέας Κρυστάλλης (talk) 21:13, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I see. I reworded the lead, I hope this addresses your objection? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 03:14, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

It's much better now. I have no objections, I just hope that someone with a knowledge of the issue can do more work on the article. Ανδρέας Κρυστάλλης (talk) 15:52, 19 September 2011 (UTC)