Talk:Great Mosque of Kufa

Edits

This article needs a clean up, badly. There are many claims and no references to back them up.

For example, the following quote taken from the 'Significance' section claims he performed miracles. I have never heard or read anything on this and if you cannot provide a reference then it should be removed. This is only one example, there are many more.

'There are markers within the mosque indicating the locations for where the court of ‘Alī used to preside, where he was claimed to perform miracles,' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.113.143 (talk) 05:19, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

now marked for cleanup.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 09:49, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The material was copied from: http://www.archnet.org/library/sites/one-site.jsp?site_id=7590. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Boissière (talk) 20:37, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Funny, not mentioned here is that the Mosque was created by the Shi'ites biggest enemy, Umar ibn Al-Khattab. How Ironic. 113.210.7.181 (talk) 20:52, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Noah

The phrase "it was later the dwelling place of Noah" doesn't seem to have an indication of what it was later than, perhaps dues to being deleted in a previous edit. I'm going to be bold and delete the "later".--Wcoole (talk) 20:11, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Cencorship of The dragon gate

• Special:Diff/800401183
• Special:Diff/800475867

A Talk about these 2 repetitive content deletions is afoot in Special:Permalink/800480455 as a WP:CENSOR.

The controversial content is in pink background color below (it is the translation of the Hadith on the Official website of Mosque of Kufa in THIS SOURCE ) :

The dragon gate

Dragon gate (Arabic: باب الثعبان, romanized: Bāb al-Thu‘bān, lit. 'Gate of the Serpent') is a famous door of Great Mosque of Kufa.

The mosque official website says the background of the doorway name is from a Hadith in Bihar al-Anwar from Ja'far al-Sadiq says :

Amir al-Momenin was presenting a sermon on the rostrum in Kufa, when suddenly a dragon appeared, running severely towards the people and causing them to flee. Hadrat told the people "open the way for him" and the dragon came close and climbed up from the rostrum. He kissed the blessed feet of Hadrat and exhaled 3 times, before coming down and leaving. People asked for an explanation and Hadrat said "He was a man of the Jinn and was saying "One of the people(Ansar or patrons) named Jaber ibn-Sami' has killed his child by using stone but his child hadn't hurt Jaber in anyway". He was asking for revenge."

The name of the door, became "Dragon gate" or Dragon door. Also it has been said that Muawiyah I fastened an elephant there and the name of the door became "The elephant gate" for a while.

--IranianNationalist (Welcome) 20:46, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

@IranianNationalist: This is very interesting that when you wrote یه کم بخندیم :D به این منابع معتبر, you have confessed that the source is not reliable. Wikipedia is not your laughingstock. Pahlevun (talk) 21:19, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

@IranianNationalist: None of your sources are regarded reliable. For more information, read Wikipedia:WikiProject Islam#Resources. Pahlevun (talk) 21:30, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Laughing is a persistent part of my life (I laugh to God too) :) I don't push my IMAGINATIONS to anyone (versus Muslims) but if some people think there is a GOD up there to help oppressed Muslims of Myanmar (AND I THINK THERE IS NO GOD TO HELP ANYONE OF US) it doesn't mean to delete the God article. The official website of the mosque is not an unreliable source for Islamic imaginations(my viewpoint) if someone wants to believe in the existence of Jinns out there, or not, it is a personal decision based on how much we want to be rational or not. --IranianNationalist (Welcome) 21:37, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Some photos of the doorway + translation prove

The OFFICIAL WEBSITE OF THE MOSQUE IS A COMPLETELY RELIABLE SECONDARY SOURCE : https://web.archive.org/web/20130919075523/http://www.masjed-alkufa.net/news.php?readmore=203

• https://www.panoramio.com/photo/56766226
• https://www.imamhussain.org/persian/ahlulbayt-55/19608

Also the Official website is the secondary source and is referring to the Hadith of the Bihar al-Anwar EXACTLY (@Anyone : CAN'T YOU READ ARABIC? SEEK YOUR SELF THIS WAY) : Bihar al-Anwar (Bihār al-Anwār (Arabic: بحار الأنوار‎‎, meaning "Seas of Lights")) In the official website of the mosque :

• https://web.archive.org/web/20130919075523/http://www.masjed-alkufa.net/news.php?readmore=203 (...متداول على السنة الناس , لما روي في البحار ومدينة المعاجز وغرر المناقب ,وسبب تسميته بباب الثعبان انه بينما كان...)

OR :

• Google translate : https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20130919075523%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.masjed-alkufa.net%2Fnews.php%3Freadmore%3D203&edit-text=&act=url

--IranianNationalist (Welcome) 21:40, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Who is Iman Hussein?Slatersteven (talk) 15:20, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam_Husayn_Shrine

https://www.imamhussain.org/persian/ahlulbayt-55/19608 (the official website make search) also Imam Hussain not Iman. Are you Shiite? relating to Islamic Republic of Iran regime? It seems you are supporting them. --IranianNationalist (Welcome) 15:33, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Comment on content not users. So why is www.imamhussain.org an RS, who publishes it?Slatersteven (talk) 15:37, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

The official website of the mosque was enough (https://web.archive.org/web/20130919075523/http://www.masjed-alkufa.net/news.php?readmore=203) but when someone attempts to censor contents we have to provide more sources also you can take a whois to find who is behind it. Have some nice dollars :v --IranianNationalist (Welcome) 18:02, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Also because you can't use google :v to search about باب الثعبان I had provided more sources in the Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Dragon_gate (because Pahlevun was talking about WP:PRIMARY there)

• https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/question/fa77393 (you can see many )
• http://fa.wikishia.net/view/اعمال_مسجد_کوفه

@Slatersteven: AN IMPORTANT FACT IS : I'm not trying to prove this ridiculous Dragon existed but if you think when I mention this Hadith in this article it is more than a Myth in a Hadith so I must say you believe in the Masih ad-Dajjal because there are many Hadithes in that article from many other senseless sources but you don't accept the official website of this historical mosque --IranianNationalist (Welcome) 18:19, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

It is down to those who argue for inclusion to provide supporting information.Slatersteven (talk) 18:16, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

This article is not about me. Also I neither accept or reject the mosques story, it is not an independent source. For all I know this tract from the Haddith is made up.Slatersteven (talk) 18:22, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

@Slatersteven: If so, the clerical source of Qum (a clerical publisher too) for the Hadith in the Masih ad-Dajjal is NOT an independent source too, so what is the different? I remind WP:ISLAM (Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Islam-related_articles) that the official clerical sources ARE RELIABLE. IS THERE ANY DOUBLE STANDARD ABOUT THE POLICIES? --IranianNationalist (Welcome) 18:33, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

@Slatersteven: I MEAN Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Islam-related_articles NOT WP:ISLAM --IranianNationalist (Welcome) 18:36, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

This article is not about the Haddith, it is about a building.Slatersteven (talk) 09:39, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

OK, I think the Mohammad-Baqer Majlesi and (fa:مهدی هادوی تهرانی) https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/question/fa77393 are sufficiently reliable to mention the Hadith --IranianNationalist (Welcome) 19:28, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

WP:MOSISLAM#Quran_and_Hadith says high ranked clergies having vast group of followers are reliable sources, fa:مهدی هادوی تهرانی is the high ranked clergy elected in Tehran for Assembly of Experts

@Pahlevun so avoid editwar and stay in talk page. It is not WP:DEMOCRACY and must make consensus --IranianNationalist (Welcome) 09:13, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article is not an RS period. As for the other, who wrote it?Slatersteven (talk) 09:41, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

@Slatersteven: Are you OK? This is the source (https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/question/fa77393) not wikipedia article!!!! Wikipedia:Reliable_source_examples#Religious_sources
fa:مهدی هادوی تهرانی = https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/question/fa77393 --IranianNationalist (Welcome) 10:06, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

islamquest.net is a religious Q&A website, not RS. Pahlevun (talk) 10:10, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

I have asked you to lay of the PA's if you do not do so I will report you. As to the rest, you said "and (fa:مهدی هادوی تهرانی) https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/question/fa77393 are sufficiently reliable to mention the Hadith". I pointed out one was a wiki and asked you who wrote the other.Slatersteven (talk) 10:11, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

@Slatersteven: There are MANY SOURCES about هادوی تهرانی out there you can see the IslamQuest in them (and Google is a very good tool for search) :

• http://isco.isca.ac.ir/Portal/home/?news/75707/7915/107270/زندگينامه-آيت-الله-دكتر-مهدي-هادوي-تهراني
• http://www.jamaran.ir/بخش-اخبار-59/121303-نامه-آیت-الله-هادوی-تهرانی-خطاب-به-فقهای-شورای-نگهبان
   : در حال حاضر سایت اسلام کوئست (islamquest.net) با دو و نیم میلیون مراجعه در ماه و۱۶ زبان، زیر نظر وی به پاسخ گویی به پرسش های مختلف در حوزه دین به شانزده زبان زنده دنیا مشغول است.

--IranianNationalist (Welcome) 10:23, 15 September 2017 (UTC) Translation of http://www.jamaran.ir/بخش-اخبار-59/121303-نامه-آیت-الله-هادوی-تهرانی-خطاب-به-فقهای-شورای-نگهبان : Currently the islamquest.net with 2 and half a million visits and in 16 languages is working under the supervision of Mehdi Hadavi Tehrani (fa:مهدی هادوی تهرانی) --IranianNationalist (Welcome) 10:27, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

I canot find where either of these two sources mention the dragon gate, care to provide the quote (in English)?Slatersteven (talk) 10:28, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

@Slatersteven: The two links don't mention the dragon gate. IranianNationalist is trying to argue that because a Q&A website (islamquest.net) is founded by someone he deems a high-ranking cleric, can be a RS for Wikipedia. Pahlevun (talk) 10:47, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

@Slatersteven: This is the sequence of the sources :

• Mehdi Hadavi Tehrani in his OFFICIAL website : https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/question/fa77393 ("آیا اژدهایی وارد مسجد کوفه شده و با امام علی(ع) گفت‌وگو کرد؟! آیا نام‌گذاری یکی از ورودی‌های مسجد کوفه به «باب الثعبان» به همین دلیل است؟ چرا به آن ورودی، «باب الفیل» هم می‌گویند؟!") provide a complete research on the relative sources of the Dragon Gate Hadith about the Kufa mosque. Translation of the title : Does a Dragon entered to the Kufa mosque and talked to Ali ibn abi talib? Is the naming of one of the doors of the Kufa mosque to the (Dragon gate or Dragon door) "Bab-o-thoban" (باب الثعبان) due to that? and why is its name called as "Elephant gate" (باب الفیل)? (use google translate)
• https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamquest.net%2Ffa%2Farchive%2Fquestion%2Ffa77393&edit-text=
• Is https://www.islamquest.net the official website of Mehdi Hadavi Tehrani? Yes this is the source : http://www.jamaran.ir/بخش-اخبار-59/121303-نامه-آیت-الله-هادوی-تهرانی-خطاب-به-فقهای-شورای-نگهبان
  and you can search for the islamquest.net in the source : «در حال حاضر سایت اسلام کوئست (islamquest.net) با دو و نیم میلیون مراجعه در ماه و۱۶ زبان، زیر نظر وی به پاسخ گویی به پرسش های مختلف در حوزه دین به شانزده زبان زنده دنیا مشغول است.»

--IranianNationalist (Welcome) 10:51, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

@Pahlevun Q&A? can you please and add a new answer by yourself to the page there? Is it social? or it is the official owner (Hadavi Tehrani) providing the questions and answering to them? IT IS EXACTLY SAME AS THE Islamic Treatise. --IranianNationalist (Welcome) 10:57, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

This needs to be taken to RSN, this needs more eyes looking at it.Slatersteven (talk) 10:50, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

I opened a new section at RSN, waiting for replies. Pahlevun (talk) 11:39, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

The discussion is at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Primary_sources_at_Great_Mosque_of_Kufa. --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 13:16, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Much more sources (+hawzah ...)

• http://www.hawzah.net/fa/Magazine/View/3301/5343/50193/اماکن-زیارتی-منتسب-به-امام-زمان-(عجل-الله-تعالی-فرجه-الشریف)-در-ایران-و-جهان-(3)
• الخرائج و الجرائج، ج 1، ص 189; الثاقب، ص 248; مدینة المعاجز، ج 1، ص 141 .
• The right URL : sibtayn (this URL was hard to copy)

--IranianNationalist (Welcome) 13:52, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

and yet again I cannot find a mention of dragon,, you need to start providing translations.Slatersteven (talk) 17:24, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

References

Merger after AfD

@Godric on Leave: hi, considering you closed the AfD of "Dragon gate", could you please comment on the following? It appears the to-be-merged article was already merged during the discussion, so would you reckon it is still necessary to merge? Or should we just go straight for redirecting or maybe even turning it into a disambiguation page, because of Dragon Gate, Dragon Gate USA, and Dragon's Gate? --HyperGaruda (talk) 19:22, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

@HyperGaruda:--The amount of merging is a matter of local editorial consensus.If you feel, that the merge has been already done, be bold and redirect to target.No comments on disamb.Winged Blades of Godric^{On leave} 04:52, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

 Done, let's see what happens. --HyperGaruda (talk) 19:09, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

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Reverts

@Emir of Wikipedia: User:Pahlevun is on WP:ANB do you want to be there too aside his other actions? If you can not read Arabic or Farsi plz stay aside or you will be in ANB too.

• Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#User:Pahlevun_.28Extreme_partiality.2C_vandalism_and_censorship.29

--IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 12:53, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Arts of the Islamic World

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2023 and 12 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Leonfitz1779 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Emschec22, Falldel24, Dylanaunon, Ptcoyle17, Sydlaumh.

— Assignment last updated by Ptcoyle17 (talk) 17:41, 30 November 2023 (UTC)