Talk:Kyrenia

Untitled

I think it's a bit unrealistic to take out a whole sentence like "It is a busy little town with a beautiful harbour" on the (presumed) grounds that it's not NPOV. It's a piece about a place which is attractive to tourists and this is presumably one on the reasons why. I have restored the sentence with a slight amendment which I hope makes it a touch less POV and hence, I hope, acceptable. Nevilley—Preceding undated comment added at 09:16, 26 November 2002 (UTC)

Zoe, I notice you just changed it back. I assume this is about the above point again? If you have a problem with the statement that the town is popular with visitors because it has a beautiful harbour, can you please make it clear what this objection is, or have a go at rewording it into a form you feel is acceptable? I feel this would be much more productive than us both just tinkering with it in the dark as it were. :) Nevilley 10:24 Dec 4, 2002 (UTC)

This is a suggestion before I go and do anything rash like changing things ;) Shouldn't this page be moved to Girne and have a redirection from Kyrenia? Given that it's a place in the Turkish part of Cyrpus should the article not use the Turkish name primarily? Mallanox 15:31, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

• • I do not think any change to the title of the page is warranted because it is the universally accepted name for both turks and greeks on Cyprus. Given the political repercussions on this, to do so would provoke an unwarranted edit war.(UNFanatic 20:03, 27 July 2006 (UTC))
    • Hmm, I am somewhat confused. I work for an international company and today had correspondence from a client in Cyprus who gave his address as Girne. Is his usage of the Turkish name the exception rather than the rule? Mallanox 02:14, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
      • And what company do you work for? Apparently you forget the invasion and the fact that the north is occupied by TUrkish troops and an illegal entity as far as the UN and the EU is concerned. Better to keep the names Anglicized (like Kyrenia) to avoid any issues.(UNFanatic)
        • Whoa, steady on there. I'm not looking for a fight, I genuinely don't know. I'm not really interested in the politics of the area, I only want to do what is best and most accurate for Wikiepdia. I only looked at this page as I'd never heard of Girne and decided to find out more to help me do my job. Mallanox 09:23, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
          • My family was driven out from Kyrenia I would appreciate it if you DIDNT change the name, it is the universally accepted name long before the Turks came to the island.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.173.80 (talk) 15:23, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
            • Please note I have removed a personal attack in accordance with WP:RPA. I have no intention of changing the name. Mallanox 02:12, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Iwonder if you would do ythe same if your family was driven out from their home, you think you are an impartial observer. I burn with hatred for turks and for good reason.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.172.220 (talk) 21:22, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

On this name issue - is there any Wikipedia policy on this sort of thing? To me, it would seem to be a case without argument that the main name for this article should be Girne. That is the town's current official name, and to put another name before it destroys the impartiality and the accuracy that a proper encyclopedia must have. I wonder, what would be the fate of the editor of a printed encyclopedia if his reason for wanting one particular entry name over another was "I burn with hatred for Turks". Meowy 21:59, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Greek Cypriots etnically cleaned Turkish Cypriots. They even killed Turkish Cypriots babies. As a result, in 1974 Turkey acted. The bloods of the killed Turkish Cypriot babies have not cleaned from the shower (when they were killed, they were in shower) so that the next Turkish Cypriot generations will easily remember the barbarism of Greek Cypriots. Anybody who visit the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus can see the that bloods and pictures of these babies in the Barbarism Museum. Girne is a Turkish city since 1570. 212.174.25.115 21:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC) 212.174.25.115 21:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

You say that your family was driven out from Girne, but Eoka soldiers killed womans and childs. North cyprus belongs NOT to South Cyprus. It is a free country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omerli (talk • contribs) 17:57, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Regarding the name. I live in the UK and visited Girne. Until now had no idea of the name issue and no one there ever called it anything but Girne. David. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.19.217.133 (talk) 00:36, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough, since Kyrenia's population lives in exile...those turkos that you refer to are some anatolians settlers (this is actually an act of war crime). I guess you did not buy any land coz you may end up in jail if did so. Most of the land there belongs to Cypriots and it has being taken from the Turkish army. so think twice before you visit an illegal state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.210.175.250 (talk) 15:03, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Get over it. Part of my family was murdered by one group, and the other part was driven out of their homes by the first group's enemies. We fled a third group (and I have visited the houses and properties we lost, though I have not yet been able to visit the place where my mother's parents were murdered). ALL people (including Greeks and Turks) are shit when the bounds of civilization are loosened. "Burning with hatred for Turks" is an ignoble response. Furthermore, if you are Greek, I assume you are familiar with the New Testament; read it again.Acad Ronin (talk) 15:50, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

I’m gonna say something that both of you won’t like, Acad I am terribly sorry for the brutal and disgusting death of you innocent family, by I would like to add things that both Turks and Greeks did horribly wrong, I don’t like it when one person only focuses on one part of history and ignores another, first, yes the Greeks did horrible things to the Turkish Cypriots, I live in the TRNC so I have read all the things about what the greeks did, but I just want to say something, you see in the turkish wiki it barely says anything bad about the Turks, I know how cheesy this sounds but I hope you know that the ottomans killed 80’000 people in Nicosia, it was so bad in fact where Nicosia had smaller population than some villages. This is probably what angered the Greeks to the Turks, which I’m NOT saying that it was justified, I’m just saying what angered them. I’ve read school books in north Cyprus and I also know that you call the invasion the peace operation. You can call it a intervention, that makes sense, but a peace operation is like calling the war in Ukraine a “military operation” yes, it saved the “intervention” saved the Turkish Cypriots, but it also killed 2.8k innocent Greeks, and if you don’t know. The Greeks were, raped, tortured, executed and displaced in the karpaz. I know the atrocities that happened in Murtağa which I know was horrible, I just want you to accept the fact that the Turks, primarily the Turkish soldiers also did horrendous things, I know this is 11 years late, but if you do reply, then I hope you reply with a kindly manner, thank you. Natieboi (talk) 18:13, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi Natieboi: I am not Turkish or Greek, and I fully support telling the truth, as best we know it. I wish Japanese editors would write about the Armenian Genocide, and the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, while Greeks and Turks would write about Japanese atrocities in WWII. It is difficult to write NPOV when you identify with one side or the other. But on a deeper level, it is important to realize that we are one species, and a pretty appalling one at that; the only thing that keeps God from ending his experiment is that there are extraordinary people on both sides of any conflict that have acted nobly, with great courage and humanity. With respect to the Holocaust, the Jews call these individuals "The Righteous amongst the Gentiles", and there are Greeks, at least one Japanese, and definitely several Muslims among them. But even if, like me, one is not a hero, one can at least try not to "burn with hatred". I hope I have replied in a kindly manner. Pax vobiscum (Peace be with you). Acad Ronin (talk) 18:58, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Kyrenia ship

There's a famous ancient shipwreck found outside the harbor that was reconstructed and put in a museum. A replica was also built. This should be included in the article because most of the world heard of Kyrenia because of this. Vasa2 (talk) 17:43, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Location of Kyrenia

Kyrenia is in Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, it is not a part of Republic of Cyprus. The 'Annan Plan' suggested it was a part of TRNC, the current peace talks suggests it will remain a part of TRNC. So, why don't we provide the world w/ correct information ?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Volkan888 (talk • contribs) 11:06, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Kyrenia/Girne

Would it help if the second sentence were replaced, since "Internationally recognized as part of the Republic of Cyprus, Kyrenia has been under Turkish control since the 1974 invasion." Isn't legally correct. Would it help - and be more legally correct to replace it with something like "Kyrenia has been under Turkish control since 1974, following the Turkish Military intervention (under the provisions of the Treaty of Guarantee of the Republic of Cyprus)." The above replacement does not represent a POV ... it represents fact. I have no issue with the former but don't believe that it should be used as a substitute for the latter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RyanCurtisUK (talk • contribs) 14:25, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

According to several UN's resolution is under military occupation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.210.175.250 (talk) 15:06, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Well now that's a first - the UN backing a motion condemning another country. Actually the motions get passed because of the large Greek population in the USA and a lack of knowledge of the mass murder that was going on under the UN's nose between 1963 and 1974. Turkey had the right and a duty to stop the mass murder, Greece and the Greek Cypriots were complicit in that murder, and Britain didn't want to know unless it was to rub the nose of Turkey in the poo. Wilson the British Prime Minister was complicit in turning a blind eye to what was going on, threatened Turkey with war IF one Turkish soldier entered Nicosia airport, but turned a blind eye to they way Turkish Cypriots were harassed as they sought refuge in the Sovereign Base areas. Turkey should annexe the North and tell the UN and EU to go take a long walk off a very short pier. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.244.61.231 (talk) 12:06, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was move Jafeluv (talk) 20:29, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

---

Girne → Kyrenia — This article was moved from Kyrenia to Girne at 09:30, June 24, 2009, by User:Crazy Benoit without any discussion. This is a controversial move (evidenced by the number of editors who attempted to revert by copy-and-paste). I am requesting that the article be moved back to Kyrenia in line with WP:Naming Conventions until a genuine discussion has taken place. Kyrenia is the common name of the town in English and is a good neutral name between the Greek Kerýneia and the Turkish Girne. Crazy Benoit has previously made two similar controversial moves related to Cyprus - Famagusta to Gazimağusa on June 18, 2009 and Turkish invasion of Cyprus to Cyprus Peace Movement (Atilla Movement) on June 22, 2009, both of which were reversed. Green Giant (talk) 00:34, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

• *Support (or Cyrenia; Cerynea, which is the English both for the ancient city on Cyprus and the one in Achaea, should be included). Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:44, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
• Support as well. Constantine ✍ 10:33, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
• Support move to Kyrenia, which seems well-established in English usage [1] [2] Knepflerle (talk) 12:32, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
• Support Kyrenia is the more common English name. _{El Greco}^(talk) 13:29, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
• Support the move of this page back to Kyrenia Seric2 (talk) 15:10, 22 July 2009(UTC)
• Support Kyrenia is the English name. --Athenean (talk) 17:02, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Deleted Blatant Propaganda

Sorry, but if someone insists on using a page about Kyrenia (the town) to justify legitimising something completely separate (the invasion of Cyprus), then the whole page should be deleted. Copperhead331 (talk) 15:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

How dare you... they are not separate, they are parts of the same thing. Neo ^ 09:07, 24 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neo ^ (talk • contribs)

The first few lines start by becoming political straight away..."internationally recognised part of the republic of Cyprus" Why not remove all politics from this article. Leave that to the politicians to work out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.214.117.25 (talk) 22:37, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Actually Turkey did not invade it stopped mass genocide ny the Greek Cypriots which act it had been carrying ouyt since Christmas 1963. Despite many talks involving Makarios the cleric who wanted Enosis with Greece and was prepared to sanction mass murder to achieve it, using people like Sampson, Grivas and EOKA B to carry out his requirements. Makarios was heard on several occasions to come out with agreement to stop the fighting and would instruct his aides "Cease fire at noon (or what ever time they had agreed), keep killing the Turkish Dogs!" He was supposed to be a man of peace a man of God. He was, is and always will be, in my opinion, an evil man on par with Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot Idi Amin and any other butcher that you can think of. By 1974, Turkey, Greece and the UK had more or less exhausted every possibility of achieving peace in Cyprus. Turkey informed the UK and Greece that either the murders stopped or they would intervene. Wilson the UK Prime Minister of the day informed the Turkish Government "You would not dare!" The Greeks and Greek Cypriots refused to believe that Turkey would intervene and so Turkey in the face of opposition by Greece, the Greek Cypriots and the UK carried out its threat. It sent its forces to the island and the brave Greek Cypriots who had been murdering their next door neighbours for no other reason than that they were Turkish Cypriots ran from superior forces. Wilson informed Turkey that "If one Turkish boot enters Nicosia Airport Britain would be at war with Turkey", so Turkish forces surrounded the airport and never entered it. The Greeks mostly in America did not hesitate to whip up support for a motion condemning Turkey, but it conveniently failed to mention the fact that they had been murdering Turkish Cypriots since 1963. Cyprus as a result was divided along he "Green Line," which is more or less where the Turkish army stopped. The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus - KTCC came into being. In 2004 Kofi Annan, the tehen Secretary General of the UN came up with a settlement plan. It entailed the pan handle of Cyprus being handed back to the South, the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus becoming legitimised at the UN. At the same time the South was negotiating with the EU to become a member. One of the EU's stipulations was that the Annan plan HAD TO BE ACCEPTED by both sides (KTCC and Southern Cyprus) for the application to be accepted. The referendum was held and the KTCC accepted by about 2 to 1 the Annan Plan, whilst the South rejected it by about the same ratio. This meant that the application to join the EU was effectively stopped - except the EU secretly negotiated a deal for the south. One of the terms was that 1/3rd of the money for the island went to the KTCC and 2/3rds would be for the south. The referendum to join the EU was accepted by the majority of the Greek Cypriots, and Southern Cyprus joined the EU, even though under the agreed terms of the UN and EU, it should not have. To date money for the north has been paid to the Southern Cyprus Government and only one payment transferred. The remainder supposedly languishes in the central bank in Levkosa or Nicosia, with the south refusing to transfer it. The EU refuses to deal with any other government regarding the transfer as it deems the south to be the de facto Government. You see, I was present in 1973 when I saw Turkish Cypriots murder by armed Greek Cypriot militia and police, so I know what I am talking about. I also know several people who were present at the ceasefire talks involving Makarios and the British and surprisingly they all tell the same story of how Makarios was duplicitous and gave new meaning to the term "Smiling dagger!" Even today the Greek Cypriots would start the blood shed again if Turkey withdrew its forces and they still pretend that "SAmpson, Griva, EOKA B" are a figment of imagination, that they never hurt any of their Turkish neighbours "We were such good friends" which may be true but they still murdered them in cold blood. The Greek Cypriots suffer collectively and individually from a terrible affliction - one should pity them really - it is called AMNESIA and a refusal to face the truth. There is much more that I could write - Turkish people seeking refuge in the Sovereign base being made to strip naked, being examined for weapons including rifles concealed about their body especially the orifices - think about that if you will, having urine poured over them, stones thrown at them, beaten with baseball bats - all for being Turkish Cypriots. No I am not Turkish, but I am a retired officer of Her Majesty's forces who was serving in Cyprus at the time. Until the Greek Cypriots are prepared to accept that what they or their forefathers did was wrong and atone for it, there will not be peace in Cyprus. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.244.61.231 (talk) 13:54, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Greek name

Is the correct Greek name for the city Κερύνειαis or Κερύνεια? It seems like Κερύνεια, but I wanted to make sure. --Seksen iki yüz kırk beş (talk) 13:28, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

I didn't even notice the different spellings of Kyrenia on the the page, but I think your right and Κερύνεια is the correct Greek translation of the city. Seric2 (talk) 12:53, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Link to Website of Girne Municipality

I am disturbed that my edit to add a link to the website of the Turkish Cypriot municipal government of Kyrenia has repeatedly been reverted by a user with an obviously political agenda. Greek Cypriots with claims to the administration of Kyrenia have established a "Kyrenia Town Hall" in the southern part of Nicosia i.e., a municipal government in exile. My edit reflects the reality of a working, de facto Turkish Cypriot municipality. Any attempt to hide this is evidence of a lack of neutrality. 91.10.51.89 (talk) 00:45, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree. The wording you used in this edit is factual and NPOV. It uses neutral terms and avoids contentious labels such as "occupied" (for the Turkish one) or "internationally recognized" (for the Greek one). Therefore the reversal of your edits is unjustified. - TaalVerbeteraar (talk) 14:48, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Ottoman rule

This section does not sound balanced. It needs additional citations and a rewriting to display a neutral rhetoric. As it stand it sounds hostile. -Human like you (talk) 12:07, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

To me the section doesn't seem unbalanced and hostile. No need to change, though additional sources could be added. 2003:77:4F14:2E20:D4DD:57F1:A0F:CDAB (talk) 13:58, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

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The legitimacy of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC) is recognized worldwide (International court rulings and national court decisions of various countries)

• The International Court of Justice (ICJ) Ruling on Kosovo (2010):
  

"THERE IS NOTHING IN INTERNATIONAL LAW THAT PROHIBITS DECLARATIONS OF INDEPENDENCE, and the RECOGNITION OF A STATE IS A POLITICAL MATTER."

The United States of America (USA), in the ICJ’s 2010 Kosovo ruling, rejected the Greek Cypriot stance and issued a statement favorable to the Turkish Cypriots:

Harold Hongju Koh (The USA's representative in the UN-ICJ 2010 Kosovo case on behalf of the USA): "The argument advanced by Cyprus against the legality of Kosovo’s unilateral declaration of independence is incorrect. Cyprus attempted to compare the 1244 process to the 'heartbreaking but misleading situation' of a parent sending their young child into state care, never to see them again. I argued, however, that a more accurate analogy would be the futile attempt by the state to forcibly return an adult child to an abusive home when the child no longer wishes to return, especially after the parent and child have LONG LIVED APART, and REPEATED ATTEMPTS AT RECONCILIATION HAVE REPEATEDLY FAILED. In such a case, as here, a DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE WOULD BE THE ONLY VALID OPTION and would undoubtedly be lawful.”
https://www.icj-cij.org/public/files/case-related/141/141-20091208-ORA-01-00-BI.pdf (Page38; Paragraph40)

Accordingly, the US Federal Court (on 9 October 2014) declared the TRNC as a "democratic republic with a president, a prime minister, a legislative body, and a judiciary."

In the UN-ICJ 2010 Kosovo ruling, ICJ Judge Trindade: "The emphasis has shifted from the status of the TERRITORIES to the NEEDS AND DESIRES OF THE PEOPLE."
https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/141/141-20100722-ADV-01-08-EN.pdf (Page550; Paragraph66)

• The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR; 2 July 2013):
  

"Although the regime in the northern area lacks international recognition, THE DE FACTO RECOGNITION OF THE REGIME’S ACTIONS IN THE NORTH MAY BE NECESSARY FOR PRACTICAL PURPOSES. Therefore, the adoption of civil, administrative, or criminal legal measures by the authorities of the 'TRNC', and their application or enforcement within the territory of the regime in the north, may be seen as having a LEGAL BASIS IN DOMESTIC LAW for the purposes of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR)."
http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng?i=001-122907

• The United States Federal Court (9 October 2014):
  

"...Although the US does not recognize the TRNC as a state, it can be said that the TRNC purportedly operates as a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC with a president, prime minister, legislature and judiciary...The TRNC is NOT vulnerable to a lawsuit in Washington."
https://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/district-of-columbia/dcdce/1:2009cv01967/139002/53

• The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR; 2 September 2015):
  

"The judicial system in the 'TRNC', including both civil and criminal courts, reflects the judicial and customary law tradition of Cyprus in its operation and procedures, and therefore, the courts of the 'TRNC' should be regarded as 'established by law' in reference to their 'constitutional and legal foundation. The ECHR had previously ruled that the judicial system established in the 'TRNC' should be considered 'established by law' based on the 'constitutional and legal foundation' that sustains it. Moreover, the ECHR does NOT accept that the courts in the 'TRNC', as a whole, lack independence and/or impartiality. When an action by the authorities of the 'TRNC' complies with the EXISTING LAWS OF NORTHERN CYPRUS, such actions, in principle, have a legal basis in domestic law for the purposes of the European Convention on Human Rights.
http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng?i=001-155000

PS: Here, the ECtHR, by referring to the "laws in force in the northern region of Cyprus", means the laws enacted and enforced by the TRNC in northern Cyprus (see the ECtHR’s 02July2013 ruling). In summary, according to the ECtHR, the courts of the TRNC are INDEPENDENT AND IMPARTIAL.

• United Kingdom High Court (3 February 2017):
  

"There was NO duty in UK law upon the Government to refrain from recognising Northern Cyprus. The United Nations itself works with Northern Cyprus law enforcement agencies and facilitates co-operation between the two parts of the island...The cooperation between the UK police and legal institutions in Northern Cyprus is LAWFUL."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/03/criminals-fleeing-british-justice-can-no-longer-use-cyprus-safe
http://ambamarblearch-media.com/sites/default/files/dpp_files/TT.pdf, Page6.212.174.38.177 (talk) 11:35, 9 October 2024 (UTC)