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Foulbriggs edit
Please note that this is not a piece of vandalism, this is the older name of the area.-MacRùsgail (talk) 22:51, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
- Mea culpa - I removed the "Foulbriggs" reference. I didn't for a moment regard the info as vandalism. See rephrased section. There is no way the name "Foulbriggs" can be confirmed as meaning the Fountainbridge area. It cannot be found on any early map (18thC maps name "Fountainbridge" of course). The Victorian writer Agnes Strickland (the Lady Antonia Fraser of her time?) who first identified the name with the area was, in my opinion, trying to make the Mary story more exciting, i.e. she was abducted just as she was nearing the castle and safety. Unfortunately, as often happens, others repeated the story. It's much more likely that the contemporary accounts of the abduction are a more reliable guide to where it happened; and they point to Cramond. As Chambers points out, she was abducted on the Stirling-Linlithgow-Edinburgh road, not on the Glasgow-Edinburgh road running through Fountainbridge (whatever it was called at the time - and that we don't know). Kim Traynor | Talk 21:17, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
- I don't have the references to hand just now, but I did do some research into this matter a while back. One of the sources said that "Foulbriggs" was beyond the Westport, which clinched it for me. I believe there was a burn somewhere around where the western approach road/Dalry Road is now, and that the original briggs might have been around there.-MacRùsgail (talk) 14:22, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
- With respect, that shouldn't have been a clincher because the West Port makes an appearance only because Strickland has decided "Foulbriggs" means "Fountainbridge", without any hard evidence that the name and area are in any way linked, and, as Chambers argues, without a shred of evidence that "Foulbriggs" was a proper place-name rather than a description. She is 'sexing up' the story dramatically by choosing that location - popular history always preferring the sensational - but it seems she also had an ulterior motive. It's worth re-reading Chambers's piece, now added to the page as an external link. He reasons well. He points out that the "Foulbriggs" abduction theory can be attributed to three pro-Mary 'historians' (Strickland not being the first) writing between the beginning of the 18th century (Crawford) and the early-19th century (Strickland). They want to give the impression that Mary was suddenly 'snatched' by Bothwell at the last minute before reaching refuge in the castle. The Almond-Cramond location, named by contemporaries, being distant from the castle, hints at the possibility of a pre-arranged meeting. From that spot the parties, if heading for Dunbar, could proceed straight along the coastline without coming near Edinburgh. But that interpretation wouldn't suit Mary supporters. Previously, you left an edit message stating that "Foulbriggs" deserves a mention. I agreed if only to increase clarity. If, however, one does not accept Agnes Strickland's interpretation of the spot where Mary was abducted, then it clearly does not. Kim Traynor | Talk 17:33, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
- The imprint of 1735 of Adair's map seems to show Fountainbridge with "Fount" to the left and "ain" to the right of the road and "br" below. http://maps.nls.uk/view/00000985#zoom=7&lat=3174&lon=4650&layers=BT. 77.99.106.6 (talk) 12:08, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
- Interesting. I can't tell from its placing whether the text is significant in terms of location or just the mapmaker's way of fitting the words into available space. I don't recognise the road layout from the Coltbridge road to Gorgie and Meggatland. The "Slate ford" on the Water of Leith is certainly clearly identified. Kim Traynor | Talk 19:46, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
- "Foulbridge(s)" is well-attested as an older name for Fountainbridge. See Smith, p. 46. Chambers says as much: "this suburb [...] certainly was called Foulbriggs during the first half of the last century". His argument is that the Foulbriggs referred to in the account of Mary's capture is a different Foulbriggs to the one near the West Port. Zacwill (talk) 11:03, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
- The imprint of 1735 of Adair's map seems to show Fountainbridge with "Fount" to the left and "ain" to the right of the road and "br" below. http://maps.nls.uk/view/00000985#zoom=7&lat=3174&lon=4650&layers=BT. 77.99.106.6 (talk) 12:08, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
- With respect, that shouldn't have been a clincher because the West Port makes an appearance only because Strickland has decided "Foulbriggs" means "Fountainbridge", without any hard evidence that the name and area are in any way linked, and, as Chambers argues, without a shred of evidence that "Foulbriggs" was a proper place-name rather than a description. She is 'sexing up' the story dramatically by choosing that location - popular history always preferring the sensational - but it seems she also had an ulterior motive. It's worth re-reading Chambers's piece, now added to the page as an external link. He reasons well. He points out that the "Foulbriggs" abduction theory can be attributed to three pro-Mary 'historians' (Strickland not being the first) writing between the beginning of the 18th century (Crawford) and the early-19th century (Strickland). They want to give the impression that Mary was suddenly 'snatched' by Bothwell at the last minute before reaching refuge in the castle. The Almond-Cramond location, named by contemporaries, being distant from the castle, hints at the possibility of a pre-arranged meeting. From that spot the parties, if heading for Dunbar, could proceed straight along the coastline without coming near Edinburgh. But that interpretation wouldn't suit Mary supporters. Previously, you left an edit message stating that "Foulbriggs" deserves a mention. I agreed if only to increase clarity. If, however, one does not accept Agnes Strickland's interpretation of the spot where Mary was abducted, then it clearly does not. Kim Traynor | Talk 17:33, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
- I don't have the references to hand just now, but I did do some research into this matter a while back. One of the sources said that "Foulbriggs" was beyond the Westport, which clinched it for me. I believe there was a burn somewhere around where the western approach road/Dalry Road is now, and that the original briggs might have been around there.-MacRùsgail (talk) 14:22, 30 January 2015 (UTC)