Talk:Film career of Audie Murphy/Archive 1

April 2013 - Verifiability

This article was split off from the main article of Audie Murphy, which has since achieved GA status and is intended for an eventual FA nomination. Towards that end, this filmography needs to be able to stand up to scrutiny on the sourcing as well as the main article. I have gone through the individual listings under the section "Unmade films", the entire section of which was a June 2012 good faith insertion by one unregistered editor who copied the list from a fan club newsletter. Those that were legitimately considered projects verfiable through other sources have been merged within this article, in context of how they were considered as Murphy vehicles at the time. Those that could not be verified independent of the fan club newsletter were eliminated.

The fan club newsletter did not source their list. However, some of the unsourced prose in that newsletter is recognizable to me as copyvio, lifted in whole or in part, from other published material. Just because somebody once had a thought of what Murphy might be good at, or a publicity agent leaked to the media to test the waters, does not make it a legitimately considered offer. With all due respect to fan clubs, the very nature of "fan" is POV driven. The slant in this newsletter is very evident, and the list includes some movies that read more of a fan wish list, "...wouldn't Audie have been terrific in..." rather than anything actually offered, fans opining on how Murphy could have revitalized his career with the right movie. It is a good case in point why fan club newsletters are questionable sources at Wikipedia.

Skin Diver With a Heart, a legitimate project where Murphy had contracted for a script, is so carefully worded you'd think powers out of his control converged to keep him from making the movie. In reality, Murphy dropped the ball and got sued by the scriptwriter. One listed unverifiable title begins with, "Rumor has it...", which would be shot out of the saddle at Wikipedia. Among other things in that newsletter, it lists Murphy as up for the part of William Barret Travis in The Alamo, but that John Wayne was intimidated by Murphy's hero status and rejected him. Never happened. In my research, I found that Wayne never had anybody in mind for Travis but Laurence Harvey. The closest I came to finding that Murphy was ever considered is that some people in Texas had a letter writing campaign to get Murphy any part at all in the movie. The major roles had already been cast by the time Texas got into its letter writing campaign to Wayne. Marlon Brando's role in Reflections in a Golden Eye is very cleverly worded in that newsletter as "open", but that Elizabeth Taylor wanted Brando. It never once says Murphy was ever in consideration, but that was listed here under the "Unmade films".

— Maile (talk) 15:08, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

February 2013

The contents of this filmography were moved here from Audie Murphy, which is currently being Peer Reviewed. — Maile (talk) 00:55, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

October 2013 clean up

Clean-up for copyvio, consistency, clarity, NPOV, MOS Words to watch and ISBN standardization. Extra spaces, dashes, serial commas and other punctuation fixed per WP:STYLE. "The Youth" in The Red Badge of Courage and "The American" in The Quiet American are role titles, as is Murphy's To Hell and Back cast listing in the role of "Audie Murphy", MOS:CAPS.

Footnotes, References and Bibliography have been verified. Standardization of style comes from Citation Guide: Chicago/Turabian (16th ed.) provided by Simon Frasier University Library, and from the best of Featured Articles such as Terry-Thomas, Andjar Asmara, Douglas MacArthur, Ernst Lindemann and Pedro I of Brazil.

The following were removed:

• 1952 - Lux Video Theatre, episode "The Bargain", IMDb shows Murphy appearing as an extra. Questionable. Murphy had been receiving top star billing since 1950. Unable to verify elsewhere.

• 1955 -

Allen in Movieland, listed on IMDb. Unable to verify elsewhere.

Colgate Comedy Hour, listed on IMDb. Unable to verify elsewhere.

I've Got a Secret, listed on the Audie L. Murphy Memorial Website. Unable to verify elsewhere.

• 1961 - Here's Hollywood, listed on IMDb. Unable to verify elsewhere.

Sourcing per Reliable source examples. Wikipedia doesn't like inline citations from YouTube or User generated sourcing, which includes some information on IMDb and the Audie L. Murphy Memorial Website. Information from those sites is only used as background in the Footnotes explanations. Spam is not tolerated. Therefore, I did not include a link when mentioning in the footnotes about the commercial residential development Audie Murphy Ranch in Menifee, California. The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) is a credible source that is the repository of Murphy's government-related records. However, the search results are not static URLs necessary for links. NARA website is listed under External links for anyone who wishes to search. — Maile (talk) 22:02, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

NARA links

Wow, you’ve made a lot of great improvements in this new revision, Maile. I do have some comments, but I would like to start with just this one. I would like to present a case for making the National Archives links clickable. Here’s why. After you posted some recent information about the “Toast of the Town”, I was very interested in seeing the document referenced. I couldn’t click on it, so I had to pull up the NARA site. I tried first putting the ARC number and then “Audie Murphy” in the search box on the first page but it wouldn't bring up the document. I was really frustrated and it took me quite a while to finally figure out the correct search box was on another page entirely. It would be so much simpler for readers if we just let them access the links directly. I see you are under the impression that the NARA URLs are only temporary, but I believe you are mistaken. Each ARC identified document available online appears to have its own static address. Each page offers readers the option to bookmark or share it using its own URL, so it doesn’t seem this is something that is expected to change anytime soon. Here is the direct link to the Toast of the Town document. http://research.archives.gov/description/299780 Roam41 (talk) 02:38, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

I will be interested in all your comments, on this or whatever else you care to provide insight on. This filmography is on the verge of going through a review to up its class rating, so please feel free to add your thoughts here.

1) I have added links to "Message to TAGO", "Broken Bridge" and "Beyond the Call", as these do seem to be permalinks Thanks for catching this.

2) Library of Congress also has few (very few) permalinks in its holdings, and the ones I've listed are the only permalinks I've found to Murphy's films and TV shows. I would love it if the Library of Congress had permalinks to everything he did in the arts. It would be a lot easier referencing that way.

3) Inputting the ARC identifier should work, but nothing is a guarantee on any website, I guess. The United States government is shut down over budget issues right now, so that also makes searching more difficult.

Both NARA and Library of Congress do not yet have permalinks for the majority of its holdings. The government lags behind on putting its records online, all government agencies. A similar case is the (government) NRHP listings. Each listing is assigned a specific number by the government. If you go to their search site and input the number, you stand a pretty good chance of pulling up a blank page, with the government site saying that record has not been digitized. Their backlog is decades old.

I had not figured that out when I started cleaning up the main article back in Feb-March. I'd find what I thought was a good link, stick it in the article, only to find all those government links weren't static and disappeared into the cyber cosmos. And I had dead links all over the page. Here's one search result (dead link) I saved as an example: Dead link Adding to that, not all of those initial search results gave me an ARC identifier to record. Searching through both NARA and the Library of Congress can be a real challenge, but NARA changed its search page a few months ago. What I used to find easily under Murphy's name and//or other search terms, can be an endless and empty search. The Library of Congress can be a worse maze to search through. — Maile (talk) 12:17, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

OK, now I see what you were talking about. No wonder. I never even saw these pages. I just happened to click on the search box that only seems to link to online items with static URLs. This is the OPA or “Online Public Access” section of NARA. here. It’s weird. The same documents also show up on your temporary pages, but there is no mention of there being another way to view them. I think you might find some of your NARA files from the Honors and Awards page here, too.

You might want to add The Big Picture–The Third Division in Korea to your TV list. IMDB doesn’t have it, but Murphy is featured in the beginning and at the end of the film. I’m not sure of the year, but it is episode 302. Since "The Broken Bridge" was episode 508, the Third Division episode was obviously several years earlier. The whole thing is also on youtube although I know that can't be used as a source. Also, here is a link for a description of the Savings Bonds PSA you might prefer to use as a source. Roam41 (talk) 23:36, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Great, thanks for the two new links. I'll certainly add them. I'll watch the YouTube. If you noticed in the Footnotes, I've made mention of what is downloaded on YouTube, without adding a link. YouTube links would probably be zapped by some kind of bot. We'll see what I can slide in on the description. My opinion is not that of Wikipedia, but I figure if you see something on YouTube, it exists. Hard to deny what you see with your own eyes. So, I think those items at least deserve a mention in the footnotes. From my perspective, it's a visual confirmation even if I can't link it. Even though you don't seem to have a regular user page, I see your email is active. I'm going to try and email you something right now I'd like you to try and pull up on NARA. If it works, email me back your perspective on that, please. — Maile (talk) 00:05, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

PSA

I just added a new PSA to the list. I wasn't sure if I should link to the video as a second source or not. FYI, it can be seen here. It's also on youtube,but without sound. Roam41 (talk) 02:57, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Allen in Movieland

I just added this one to the list. The video was recently posted here, so now it's possible to finally see it. Up to now, it has been kind of a mystery. The source says it's called "Steve Allen in Movieland", but the actual credits on the video show its title to be just "Allen in Movieland". Roam41 (talk) 21:24, 4 July 2018 (UTC)