Talk:Fenchone

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How many fenchones are there?

Latest comment: 5 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

First, the problem(s), then suggested improvements.

The problems

One doesn’t have to look far to notice that there’s more than one fenchone, for example, l-fenchone. Nobody I can find wants to talk about the fenchone class. And “fenchones” isn’t even a word, not to google, not to any of the OneLook dictionaries, not to CHEBI, PubChem, the NIST Chemistry WebBook, Sigma Aldrich (aka Millipore Sigma), PubChem, ChEBI, or World Of Chemicals. What a bizarre contrast to the word "alcohols"!

Adding insult to injury, the PubChem article on d-fenchone chirps “(1S,4R)-fenchone is a fenchone …,” proving that they do know there's more than one fenchone, but the links to “fenchone” go not to the fenchone class but to fenchone itself.

A related problem is that each fenchone has a disturbing multiplicity of names, and many supposedly credible sources are happy to intermingle alternate names for a fenchone with synonyms in the more general sense of having a similar meaning.

Finally, there seems to be general agreement that DL-fenchone is an alternate name for fenchone. Problem is, there also seems to be general agreement that fenchone, i.e., DL-fenchone is a "compound." That's a problem because every other DL-whatever is a mixture of two different compounds, namely d-whatever and l-whatever.

Suggested improvements

List common alternate names for the fenchone of this article including dl-fenchone and (±)-Fenchone.
Go ahead and admit that DL-fenchone is any mixture (not necessarily racemic) of d-fenchone and l-fenchone (or else explain why the heck it isn't).
Mention that other common names for d-fenchone are (+)-Fenchone and (1S,4R)-fenchone, also that other common names for l-fenchone are (-)-Fenchone and (1R,4S)-fenchone (assuming I've actually got this right).

Page Notes (talk) 14:33, 25 December 2018 (UTC)Reply

Since you see "problems" and you dont know anybody who "wants to talk" about this stuff, take a stab and do what you are recommended, otherwise your advice seems arrogant "Go ahead and admit.." "disturbing multiplicity of names" [we call that chemistry]]. --Smokefoot (talk) 14:51, 25 December 2018 (UTC)Reply

Smokefoot (talk), I'll give it a try, thanks for the encouragement. Also, I see that Common Chemistry has pulled the links to CAS 4695-62-9 (d-fenchone) and CAS 7787-20-4 (l-fenchone); other sources are available, I'll try to see what I can do about that while I'm at it. Page Notes (talk) 20:53, 26 December 2018 (UTC)Reply

More work is needed on the info box. The ChemSpider link is more or less correect but links to the nonexistent page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FENCHONE; I sent them a bug report.

The PubChem link is mostly about dl-fenchone but repeatedly and incorrectly refers to it is as (+)-Fenchone; I sent a them bug report too.

The kegg link points to d-fenchone rather than fenchone. Searching their database for fenchone, I found only links to l-fenchone and d-fenchone, like so:

C09859
Fenchone; (1R,4S)-(-)-Fenchone
C11387
(1S,4R)-(+)-Fenchone; (+)-Fenchone

I sent them a note asking if it was their intention to not have an entry for dl-fenchone.

Not knowing what else to do, I just left the broken links to CAS numbers 4695-62-9 D ☒ and 787-20-4 L ☒. Perhaps we should send Common Chemistry a query about that as well. Page Notes (talk)

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