Talk:Faith No More/Archive 2

Rahzel

I don't usually ammend wikipedia pages (mainly because if i change something, it tends to get changed back straight afterwards for no apparent reason!). Anyway, once again this has happened - i added Rahzel into the list of associated artists given that he and MP have worked together, and somebody un-did it. Why? The fact that he worked with Rahzel is actually mentioned in the main text of the article, why shouldn't the link be in the related artists section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.210.84 (talk) 17:41, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Mistake

There's a mistake in the trivia section, it said that:

In V. S. Naipaul's book Beyond Belief, the author, visiting Teheran in 1995, notices the words "Faith No More" painted in huge letters on a wall in a side street. His local guide assures him that it is just the name of an "American heavy metal" band, but Naipaul thinks the beautifully made sign is also a subtle protest at the theocratic regime established by Khomeini.

Though Ruhollah Khomeini died in 1989. So WTF?. 190.49.180.99 (talk) 05:50, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Chuck Mosley or Chuck Mosely

Which one is the correct spelling for his last name? Any reliable sources we could use? Thanks in advance! Zouavman Le Zouave 08:35, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Image fur

In the fair use rational for this image it says

3. Since two members of the band are now deceased, it is not possible to replace the image with a new free alternative.

WTF? which two, all the members in that photo are alive from what I know, it also says they're alive on their individual pages and i've found no reference to any of their deaths anywhere.

And further more, is there a reason why a photo with clear jpg lossy is in the png format? Balthazar (talk) ^{01:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC)}

Genre

Could they be considered progressive metal? Me412 (talk) 22:14, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Definitely maybe. There is like no way to classify them imho... -Invaan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.158.203.231 (talk) 21:14, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Nu metal?

Should Nu metal be included in their genre list? they did influence nu metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Belchey (talk • contribs) 03:00, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

They did influence nu metal, just as Rage Against The Machine did, but had no part in it whatsoever. I strongly think nu metal should not belong in their genre list. Zouavman Le Zouave 06:12, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I dont remember exactly where i saw but ive seen Patton say he hates nu-metal and asked people not to blame faith no more for influencing the bands that claimed them as an influence.

All Quiet in Heaven/Song of Liberty

Should the Faith No Man single "All Quiet in Heaven/Song of Liberty" be included in the Faith No More discography article? — Balthazar ^(T|C) 17:09, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't see why not. I know that there are some technicalities to this, like the whole thing about the members "quitting" the band and "forming" Faith No More, but Faith No Man and Faith No More were essentially the same band during that transitional period (they just didn't have Morris) and the "new wave" elements did carry over into the Faith No More era but with a lot added onto them (namely Jim Martin's metal influences and a bit more complexity in their compositions). Also, the official Faith No More website lists it as a single, so it's pretty obvious that the band considers Faith No Man and Faith No More to be one and the same. —Anonymous 10:19, 29 December 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.146.65.8 (talk)

Main image

Is there any particular reason why the first image on the page is of Fantomas performing? They might share a singer but they're two different bands - would we lead the Black Sabbath article with Ozzy Osbourne's solo band? It seems strange to me. Stefano Magliocco (talk) 15:21, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Early days issues

Originally billed as Faith No Man, the group formed in 1982 with original members Mike "The Man" Morris, Mark Bowen, Roddy Bottum, Bill Gould, and Mike Bordin (who received the nickname "Puffy" for his hair). When the band decided to fire Morris due to his dictator-like behavior, they renamed themselves Faith No More, seeing as how "The Man" was no longer present in the group.

I'm pretty sure that Mark Bowen was never in Faith No Man, that Roddy Bottum wasn't an original member as he replaced Wade Worthington, their original keyboardist, and that instead of firing Mike Morris they all quit his band and then started Faith No More. — Balthazar ^(T|C) 23:23, 8 July 2008 (UT

Now, this may be like arguing semantics, and the "quitting" thing may technically be true, but the Faith No More website's biography section is written as such:

"In 1981, Bay Area California musicians Mike "Puffy" Bordin, Billy Gould, Mike Morris, and Wade Worthington formed a band called Faith No Man. A year later when Worthington was replaced by keyboardist Roddy Bottum, and Mike "The Man" Morris was ousted, the group began calling themselves Faith No More."

If this is to be believed, then even the band see it as a member change rather than a band formation. —Anonymous 10:28, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

This is my first post here. Just wanted to mention to you guys that a lot of these questions are answeared on this new website www.faithnoman.com

Maybe anyone in here can update Wikipedia?

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Songofliberty (talk • contribs) 11:40, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Main image

This is only a picture of Mike Patton (performing with Fantomas). This needs to be replaced with an image of the actual lineup of Faith No More. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.160.145 (talk) 19:09, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Is "The Real Thing" an actual Faith No More album?

Considering that "The Real Thing" is more of a transition album between the old FNM and the Patton Era, shouldn't we consider that the "The Real Thing" should be given an asterisk and a remark on the subject? Sort of a "Sure... The Real Thing is a FNM album... Wink wink..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Climenole (talk • contribs) 05:40, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

It is a Faith No More album. End of. — Balthazar ^(T|C) 16:08, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

That makes no sense, while the members and musical style may have changed, it's still completely part of the Faith No More continuity, Faith No More is still Faith No More. RKFS (talk) 19:57, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Was Jim Martin really a member?

Shouldn't we at least discuss whether Martin was an actual member, since he is largely regarded by fans and band members as a kind of prolonged joke? He's like one of those jokes a group of people tell eachother just because they're familiar with it. I seriously recommend we consider whether he was a band member or not, and whether he even deserves to be mentioned in FNM history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Climenole (talk • contribs) 05:43, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Jim Martin was in Faith No More for nearly a decade, it was Jim's idea to hire Patton, and he is credited on all releases to feature his recordings as a member. Yes he was an official member. I would like to see these sources you seem have to the contrary, because I've found nothing to suggest that he's regarded that way. — Balthazar ^(T|C) 16:07, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure

This movie makes extensive reference to the band. Can we get something on it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.137.246.227 (talk) 22:59, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I have no source for this, but have heard that Jim Martin provided incidental guitar for both these movies, notably when Bill and Teb play air guitar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.198.220.139 (talk) 10:44, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Download

What's the source that they'll be playing Download. Neither of the sources attached to the places on the article that say download confirm that it is download they're playing. At least not that I can see. 86.145.9.127 (talk) 18:23, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Confirmed yesterday, as a headline act.[1]. — Balthazar ^(T|C) 00:10, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

The "Years Active" is wrong

The years active for Faith No More are 1982-1998. That's all. You cannot add "2009 onward" because that is just your opinion. The only thing that they have CONFIRMED at this stage is a one-off tour in Europe. The US tour rumours are not proven facts. I do not want to get involved in an editing war, so please revert back to my last edit and leave it at that. (= --Sky Attacker (talk) 00:12, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

More than a year later, but this will end the debate: the members of the band themselves say the band is reformed. Check out their bio page on their site: http://www.fnm.com/bio.shtml —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.69.114.157 (talk) 17:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

General improvement

I'd like to improve this article by emulating the structure and style of other successful band pages, such as Tool_(band). Any thoughts? The Incident (talk) 19:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes and someone needs to put in a better picture. Mike's turning away and everything. It's not even worth it. 68.231.75.213 (talk) 05:27, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

We definitely need a better picture. Can anybody recover the old one or is it gone?

I'd also like to add or expand on some of the following issues:

Chuck's difficulties leading up to his dismissal from the band, including his alcohol abuse and vocal difficulties.

Mike Patton's unique performance style, including some of the more outrageous things he's done or has been rumored to have done on stage or while touring.

Jim Martin's rift with the band during the recording of Angel Dust. I've heard that Billy actually wrote and played a lot of the guitar parts for that album.

Roddy's personal problems during the recording of King for a Day (only as they pertain to the recording).

I think FNM should also have a "musical style" section since they are a fairly unique band, and a "live performance" section to describe their shows.

Any help with tracking down references would be greatly appreciated. The Incident (talk) 18:53, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, if anybody else is interested, I found a good collection of older articles that can hopefully be used as references. [2] The Incident (talk) 00:11, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

The "According to Killyourstereo.com" bit (citations 29 & 30) about a possible forthcoming album should be deleted, said article begins with "Rumor has it" and no source is given for the rumor. It could very well be, and quite likely is nothing but wishful thinking turned into a 'rumor' by the article's author. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.149.234.180 (talk) 13:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

All the have performed/will perform edits

Is it really necessary to mention this in the main article? Seems like fancruft to me. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 13:31, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Something like "Faith No More played a series of festival shows in Europe..." would be more appropriate. The Incident (talk) 13:34, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Nu metal

Should we include one of the numerous statements various members have made against their influence on nu metal, just to be fair? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.222.59 (talk) 23:26, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

• Yes, it would be a good idea. (Sugar Bear (talk) 21:33, 20 February 2010 (UTC))

Trivia like sections

"Music in popular culture", "Collaborations", and "Legacy" come across as trivia sections with random info fans wanted to add. Although it is frowned upon on Wikipeida, I almost like it because I like seeing all of the info. However, we can't realistically add every little thing in. Is there a way to integrate some of that info into prose? I personally would be for removal of most of it if not. The Legacy section has a good paragraph after the list. Cptnono (talk) 10:20, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I would agree with adding the info into the prose where appropriate, although I wonder what other articles do. I don't think we need a comprehensive list of every FNM cover song in existence, for example. The Incident (talk) 16:12, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

We also don't need a list of every song covered by other bands. Readable prose are preferred over text and Wikipedia is not meant to be an indiscriminate collection of information. Obviously, a list of works is imperative but a list of times they were used in video games is not. Featured articles are not always 100% but they are an excellent gauge of where an article should be and should be emulated for the most part. Pink Floyd and Tool (band) are a couple examples of the best band related work on Wikipedia with their FA assessment.Cptnono (talk) 00:02, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Funk rock

Per guidelines, funk metal is a subgenre of funk rock, and thus funk rock is adequately sourced. (Sugar Bear (talk) 21:34, 20 February 2010 (UTC))

Timeline

Every band on wikipedia should have a timeline just like DIO wikipedia page has. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.115.178.29 (talk) 15:19, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Consensus on genre listings

Can we please let this stop? If we can agree on a set listing for the genre section for this article and any of the albums (singles can be left alone to be specific I think), we can just make sure it's kept at that without this constant disrupting back-and-forth editing. I'm personally in favour of keeping it quite minimal, and covering the bases simply. As such, I'd say we need something to describe the similar sound of the first three albums (funk metal seems right), and the more alternative sound of the latter three (I would lean towards alternative metal but let's hear this all out). In addition, I'd suggest a third, perhaps punk rock - bear in mind how punk-influenced the Mosely era was, along with most of the first half of King for a Day... Fool for a Lifetime, etc. I'd like to stick to no more than three, though, and leave further elaboration to articles on individual songs. Thoughts from anyone else? GRAPPLE X 01:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Just some songs are "alternative metal", but there are songs like Edge of the World, RV, A Small Victory, Everything's Ruined, Easy, Midnight Cowboy, Star A.D., Evidence, Caralho Voador, Take This Bottle, Just a Man, Stripsearch, Helpless, She Loves Me Not, I Started a Joke, This Guy's In Love With You, plus others that perfomed live, for example Ben, Glory Box, Don't Dream It's Over, among many others... Is not a shorter list of songs, songs that are quite far from a concept as "alternative metal" or "funk metal" and are even closer to the easy-listening or other genres. The band's style is clearly very difficult to define, but are four genres that should be a balance between all these genres and not to much "XRFSHGHJ metal".

And another thing, the references that are an alternative rock band are many and obvious enough, you can find anywhere. --Asdfmovie (talk) 02:51, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

You ignore though that alternative metal is a subgenre of alternative rock - if you keep going up the ladder like that you could use rock music, hard rock, heavy metal or a number of terms. You don't need both alternative rock and alternative metal; nor do you need the band article to list a large variety of genres that appear once or twice in a large back catalogue of songs - those can be mentioned in specific articles, such as noting that Evidence is jazz/funk in its article without needing to mention it everywhere else as well. GRAPPLE X 02:59, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

That the "alternative metal" is a subgenre of alternative rock does not mean that this is the style of the band and to disregard the other --Asdfmovie (talk) 03:08, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

First of all Asdf or whatever name you are going by at the moment, a lot of your arguments (as seen are the talk pages of some of the songs, like here: [[3]] and here: [[4]] are based off of your opinion and not reliable sources, which doesn't fly here. Song genres don't get changed simply because you personally feel the song is a certain style, that's not how Wikipedia operates. Second of all, as its has already been stated, Alternative Metal is a subgenre of Alternative Rock, and the former is already frequently applied to the band on this site, thus there is no need to go upward on the genre ladder and follow your overzealous ideology of adding Alternative Rock to everything. Chuck Berry's genre is listed as Rock n roll, should we go through the trouble to call him a Blues artist just because the former is descended directly from the latter? No, because the Rock n roll tag is perfectly applicable. There's no particular need to mention the Alternative Rock tag when the perfectly applicable Alternative Metal tag is written in right at the start. That would be adding undue weight. Go look that up. On this very page, FNM's importance and prominence as an Alternative Metal act is mentioned, one or two sources even credit them for inventing the genre. There is no need the slap on the Alternative Rock lablel as well. To bring up your edits to Tomahawk and Fantomas, their sourced are Ipeac recordings, the record label of both bands. This is not a reliable source, as it is not a reliable third party, such as a music magazine or website that can be used on Wikipedia.

This whole issue revolves around Asdf disrupting articles by adding POV and undue weight in regards to genres. This article, all the Patton related articles, and a lot others (see the edits to Dillinger Escape Plan) were stable before he showed up.

By the way, any particular reason you keep editing under different accounts, including anonymous I.P.s? Just curious.

AlecTrevelyan402(Click Here to leave a message)

Most of what I change is referenced (see this article, Angel Dust, Dillinger Escape Plan, Tomahawk,) so in these articles is not me who is using personal opinion. If I used more than one account is because I am not a fixed place long, forgotten passwords.

According to Allmusic (very, very used here on Wikipedia for music items) even said that the Funk-metal is a subgenre of alternative metal, but that is totally different to alternative rock (described as Alternative Pop/Rock and Alternative/Indie Rock .) So I don't understand what to look at it as something so bad, if I'm not deleting anything before, just adding information that appears in many websites (many, actually) --Pandacub (talk) 20:03, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

You are not listening. You are obviously new to Wikipedia, so read this: [[5]]

There is no need for the genres you keep adding in, the ones already on the page encompass them. Adding every genre that you feel is associated with the band and their material will not improve the articles at all. Alternative Metal is a subgenre of Alternative Rock and is closely associated it with it, and FNM is primarily identified with Alternative metal, so that's the only one that needs to go in the genre box. The sources that are there suitably summarize how reliable sources describe the band, without having to list a ton of them which would add undue weight. And as I said before you're sources (Ipeac and Encyclopedia Metallum for example) are not suitable for use, as they are not reliable 3rd party references. Please read up on and understand what constitutes a reliable source on this site instead of POV pushing and editing disruptively. Pushing your personal opinions on articles ([[6]] [[7]] [[8]] [[9]]won't make them valid. You're ceaseless disturbances of articles aren't helping anyone here.

AlecTrevelyan402(Click Here to leave a message)

"Alternative metal" "experimental rock" and"funk metal" is fine with me. I call the big one bitey 08:34, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Last Edit "unsourced"

Conflict with Anand Bhatt is an album (CD format only) that was released on The Orchard label in 1999 & later April 8, 2000; 1) http://www.enotes.com/topic/Jim_Martin_(musician) 2) http://www.amazon.com/Conflict-Anand-Bhatt-Jim-Martin/dp/B000040OKU 3)http://www.spirit-of-metal.com/groupe-groupe-Jim_Martin-l-en.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ka'Jong (talk • contribs) 11:51, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

• None are good sources. How true is the claim? what reliable source confirms he did an album with that person. What did he actually do? did he provide a bit of guitar to a porno soundtrack? did Bhatt take that soundtrack and put it out on his own dodgy vanity label? Was Martin aware of the release? How much did Martin contribute? Was his name only featured on the home made cd to try get notice for it? duffbeerforme (talk) 14:51, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Former members

Just want to inform you that there's a lot of information about former FNM members on this website: www.faithnoman.com Hopefully someone in here can update Wikipedia.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Songofliberty (talk • contribs) 11:42, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Proper Sourcing for an Edit

I made this edit in the Legacy section: In 2003, Kerrang! dubbed "Angel Dust" the "Most Influential Album of All Time", but it was undone because the source [10] isn't maintained by Kerrang (even though it's an accepted source on the Angel Dust Accolades section). The only other online sources I can find for this list are [11] and [12], will either of these do? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blueriver94 (talk • contribs) 01:08, 10 July 2014 (UTC)