Talk:FC Bastion Chornomorsk

Requested move 19 May 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. It seems nobody has been able to find sources to show that 'FC Bastion Chornomorsk' is currently in use for the team. This move might be revisited if better sources are found. EdJohnston (talk) 14:19, 15 June 2016 (UTC) EdJohnston (talk) 14:19, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

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FC Bastion Chornomorsk → FC Bastion Illichivsk – "Bastion Illichivsk" was formed in 2005, dissolved in 2011. Only in 2016, Illichivsk was renamed Chornomorsk. So, the club was never known as "FC Bastion Chornomorsk". 95.135.111.186 (talk) 09:56, 19 May 2016 (UTC) -- Relisting. Anarchyte (work | talk) 07:15, 27 May 2016 (UTC) — second relist by user:SSTflyer at 05:32, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

• Support.  ONR  (talk)  19:00, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
• It is very unlikely that this club was dissolved in 2011. Local website reports matches in 2014. The official register states that the club still exists (code 33923864, full name ГРОМАДСЬКА ОРГАНІЗАЦІЯ "СПОРТИВНИЙ КЛУБ "БАСТІОН" ( ГО "СПОРТИВНИЙ КЛУБ "БАСТІОН" )). They definitely do not play in any nationwide competitions, but they clearly were not dissolved in 2011 — NickK (talk) 10:11, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 11 July 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved to FC Bastion Chornomorsk. While the team only achieved its notability while playing under the old city name, they are officially renamed now, and there is no reason to introduce inconsistency with the city name. No such user (talk) 10:17, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

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FC Bastion Illichivsk → FC Bastion Chornomorsk – I propose to revert the previous requested move. The page was moved from FC Bastion Chornomorsk to FC Bastion Illichivsk because there was no evidence that this team played after the city was renamed from Illichivsk to Chornomorsk. Since then the club played their first game under the name FC Bastion Chornomorsk: their youth team participated in a U-14 regional tournament (in Russian, look for "Бастион (Черноморск)"), they also created a page in Vkontakte with a new name and a new logo. This shows that the club still exists and is now known as FC Bastion Chornomorsk — NickK (talk) 15:13, 11 July 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. Andrewa (talk) 15:35, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

• I supported the original move because there was no evidence at the time that the team still existed. Now that the team has played under the new name, I support the new move as well, reversing my original decision.  ONR  (talk)  11:28, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
• Relisting comment: I get only 7 ghits for the new name [1] (your results may vary) but hundreds for the old one. [2] Is there any evidence that the new name is now in common use in English? If not then we should not assume that it will automatically become the common name, and should leave the article where it is for now. The redirect will take care of any searching on or linking to the new name. Andrewa (talk) 15:35, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

  I am a bit surprised that this got to measuring common English usage of the name of the team which is now playing amateur football in a non-English speaking country and is not covered in English-languaged media. Wikipedia:Naming conventions (sports teams) suggests to use the official spelling, and it is clear that the official spelling is Bastion Chornomorsk as the team already played under this name. The reason for this difference in number of hits is clear:

  • The team used to be known as Bastion Illichivsk until February 2016. They played in the Ukrainian Second League at that time and the few links (I get only 25, not hundreds) from here are about their results in this period. There is not even a single news article, only statistical databases, many of them based on Wikipedia.
  • The team was renamed to Bastion Chornomorsk since February 2016, but they are playing in regional amateur competitions (6th tier and below) since 2013. These competitions are hardly covered by English-language media, hence even fewer results in English.

  To sum up, the club has clearly changed its official name, the official spelling in English is clearly FC Bastion Chornomorsk, and per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (sports teams) we should use this spelling. There is no reason to use the old name under which the club played at the higher level, pretty much like the article about Ebbsfleet United F.C. is not called Gravesend & Northfleet despite this name associated with better times in the club's history — NickK (talk) 10:26, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose for now Changing to Support (see below). given that the article talks exclusively about a former club, that played in the Ukraine second division, using the past tense. If the article is updated to include details of the successor club, then maybe, but frankly it seems to have lost most of its notability at this stage in the game, being so obscure and unreferenced and far down the leagues.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:19, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

  @Amakuru: That's what happens when some parts of an article are updated while others are not. I don't see any source stating that this club was dissolved in 2011: it clearly lost professional status but it did not cease to exist, thus it was a mistunderstanding. There is no successor club here, the club as a legal entity is the same (see link in the previous RM nomination), they just lost professional status in 2011 and are playing in amateur competitions since then. The name change is exclusively due to city being renamed (Illichivsk to Chornomorsk) and is not related to any event in the life of the club: they keep playing in amateur competitions as they played before, just under the new name — NickK (talk) 15:42, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

  Oh well, I don't feel too strongly about this, and you make a good point. Changing to support. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 16:20, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.